Author Topic: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers  (Read 516 times)

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Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« on: November 18, 2018, 05:48:16 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I think Brown's best role on this team is essentially what it was last year (the Avery Bradley role) but he's also one of the more capable players on the team at getting to the rim, due to his athleticism. And yet, time and time again we see him get to the rim and take a terrible, contested shot. Does he have to look up and try to make plays for others when the driving lane closes?

Zach Lowe wrote about Tatum settling for jumpers, something most of us have noticed as well. He also probably isolates too much. With his skill level handling the ball, shouldn't he be able to draw the defense in an get better shots for the guys he's playing with?

Brown is averaging 1.3 apg and Tatum is at 2.1 right now. They are #2 and #3 in FGA on the team. When both bumped up their scoring in the playoffs last year, their assist numbers remained low (1.4 and 2.7) and I haven't seen any improvement in their playmaking ability this season.

Should this be more of a focus and does it concern anyone?
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Re: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2018, 06:29:41 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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I'm more concerned with Brown than Tatum.  He doesn't see the court well which is why he attempts drives to the rim when there is no path.  I agree with the Avery Bradley role.  He could learn by watching film on Avery and how he utilized back door cuts to the rim. 

Tatum makes some nice passes.  He has the ability and I expect him to improve.  Part of the problem now is that guys are standing around too much and therefore not setting up good opportunities. He's also not being used as one of the primary ball handlers.

Re: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2018, 06:37:53 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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There can be a lot more nuance to the analysis than this, but:

Tatum doesnít have great hands. He loses the ball when driving way too much.

Brown doesnít have the ability to playmake when his shot isnít falling.

Re: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2018, 07:44:31 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Obviously, judging what a very vocal minority on this site insist, if you are 22 or younger, don't rack up assists, aren't great playmakers, have bad assist to turnover ratios and don't finish at a high percentage at the rim, you must have a low BBIQ.

Yup, that is what it has to be, Brown and Tatum both are low BBIQ players. Because Jaylen is missing wide open threes and Tatum has decided to do a ton of mid range iso, the worst shots in basketball, they must be basketball stupid....at 22 or less years old.

 ::) ::) ::) :P ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Re: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2018, 08:19:36 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Obviously, judging what a very vocal minority on this site insist, if you are 22 or younger, don't rack up assists, aren't great playmakers, have bad assist to turnover ratios and don't finish at a high percentage at the rim, you must have a low BBIQ.

Yup, that is what it has to be, Brown and Tatum both are low BBIQ players. Because Jaylen is missing wide open threes and Tatum has decided to do a ton of mid range iso, the worst shots in basketball, they must be basketball stupid....at 22 or less years old.

 ::) ::) ::) :P ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

This is an antagonistic response to a reasonable and respectfully presented question.

I'll try to get it back on track. Tatum is a very talented basketball player, but his shot selection has been questionable to start the season. He's show flashes of correcting that over the past few games, but he lets it effect him too much when his shots not falling and he doesn't impact the game in other areas at that point. In last season's playoffs, he showed he find the open man and make smart reads on plays, so I believe he'll find that again as the season goes on. Right now, I think the confluence of the hype around him and the expectations of the team are causing him
to overthink and push too much.

As far as Brown, I've already made my thoughts on him clear in other threads and I don't want to derail this thread any further.
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Re: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2018, 08:26:37 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Obviously, judging what a very vocal minority on this site insist, if you are 22 or younger, don't rack up assists, aren't great playmakers, have bad assist to turnover ratios and don't finish at a high percentage at the rim, you must have a low BBIQ.

Yup, that is what it has to be, Brown and Tatum both are low BBIQ players. Because Jaylen is missing wide open threes and Tatum has decided to do a ton of mid range iso, the worst shots in basketball, they must be basketball stupid....at 22 or less years old.

 ::) ::) ::) :P ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

It's not a comment on their BBIQ's just a question about how concerning is it that the assist numbers for the team's #2 and #3 in FGA are so low. If they're attempting that many shots, I feel like they should also be looking to create more for others and that could help the struggling offense.

Marcus Morris also has anemic assist numbers but his role is basically to be the gunner off the bench, so I get that.
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Re: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2018, 08:29:39 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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You have to remember that these guys are learning to play with Hayward on the court for the first time in their lives. He only played 5 total minutes last year before the gruesome injury.

Even with Kyrie he was out for all the 2nd half/playoffs so it's an adjustment. Tatum's kind of had to be that #2 guy for the C's with Hayward still easing in, so that makes his assist number continue to look low. Notice how when Kyrie is out, they usually need Tatum and Morris to carry the offense and at times that means creating their own shot and taking jumpers.

They'll get better with time. It's an issue for now but I'm not too concerned honestly.
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Re: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2018, 08:41:19 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Obviously, judging what a very vocal minority on this site insist, if you are 22 or younger, don't rack up assists, aren't great playmakers, have bad assist to turnover ratios and don't finish at a high percentage at the rim, you must have a low BBIQ.

Yup, that is what it has to be, Brown and Tatum both are low BBIQ players. Because Jaylen is missing wide open threes and Tatum has decided to do a ton of mid range iso, the worst shots in basketball, they must be basketball stupid....at 22 or less years old.

 ::) ::) ::) :P ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

It's not a comment on their BBIQ's just a question about how concerning is it that the assist numbers for the team's #2 and #3 in FGA are so low. If they're attempting that many shots, I feel like they should also be looking to create more for others and that could help the struggling offense.

Marcus Morris also has anemic assist numbers but his role is basically to be the gunner off the bench, so I get that.
You don't have to have high assist numbers to be an effective player. If both Tatum and Brown were hitting their shots there is no reason to question their low assist numbers. Kyrie is the highest usage player and the player with the most touches. He gets some assists but he isn't racking them up given how much he has the ball. He's a scorer.

Horford might be the best passing big in the league after Jokic but he only gets 5-6 assists per game at best in his career.

Hayward is a great playmaker but even he isn't going to get a ton of assists.

The Celtics have 4 really good playmakers theat can run the offense through Kyrie, Horford, Hayward and Smart. Everyone else has to fall into their role and the roles of Tatum and Brown simply isn't to create offense for others. In this offense Brad is asking Brown to be a 3 and D guy #5 option and Tatum is given the role as finisher/scorer. Neither player is fitting into their role right now, but its neither player's role to be a creative playmaker and get lots of assists.

That is simply, the easiest and most logical answer. Also, at their age and experience level, both players are just not great passers or creators of offense for others. And again, it's not their jobs to be that type of player at this point in their careers.

Re: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2018, 08:53:46 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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This is closer to the stem of the problem of the team. We donít have any true bonafide playmakers. We have people who are decent passers (Hayward/horford/kyrie) and then we have average to below average passers and playmakers (Tatum/brown/rozier/Morris). We donít have a elite playmaker rondo type of player/skillset. We have a mix of decent  ones with a mix of ball stoppers and average passers

Re: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2018, 09:22:54 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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This is closer to the stem of the problem of the team. We donít have any true bonafide playmakers. We have people who are decent passers (Hayward/horford/kyrie) and then we have average to below average passers and playmakers (Tatum/brown/rozier/Morris). We donít have a elite playmaker rondo type of player/skillset. We have a mix of decent  ones with a mix of ball stoppers and average passers

We did fine with fewer playmakers last year than we have now.

From what I can see, our issues are laziness and indecisiveness.

Re: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2018, 09:38:25 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Obviously, judging what a very vocal minority on this site insist, if you are 22 or younger, don't rack up assists, aren't great playmakers, have bad assist to turnover ratios and don't finish at a high percentage at the rim, you must have a low BBIQ.

Yup, that is what it has to be, Brown and Tatum both are low BBIQ players. Because Jaylen is missing wide open threes and Tatum has decided to do a ton of mid range iso, the worst shots in basketball, they must be basketball stupid....at 22 or less years old.

 ::) ::) ::) :P ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

It's not a comment on their BBIQ's just a question about how concerning is it that the assist numbers for the team's #2 and #3 in FGA are so low. If they're attempting that many shots, I feel like they should also be looking to create more for others and that could help the struggling offense.

Marcus Morris also has anemic assist numbers but his role is basically to be the gunner off the bench, so I get that.
You don't have to have high assist numbers to be an effective player. If both Tatum and Brown were hitting their shots there is no reason to question their low assist numbers. Kyrie is the highest usage player and the player with the most touches. He gets some assists but he isn't racking them up given how much he has the ball. He's a scorer.

Horford might be the best passing big in the league after Jokic but he only gets 5-6 assists per game at best in his career.

Hayward is a great playmaker but even he isn't going to get a ton of assists.

The Celtics have 4 really good playmakers theat can run the offense through Kyrie, Horford, Hayward and Smart. Everyone else has to fall into their role and the roles of Tatum and Brown simply isn't to create offense for others. In this offense Brad is asking Brown to be a 3 and D guy #5 option and Tatum is given the role as finisher/scorer. Neither player is fitting into their role right now, but its neither player's role to be a creative playmaker and get lots of assists.

That is simply, the easiest and most logical answer. Also, at their age and experience level, both players are just not great passers or creators of offense for others. And again, it's not their jobs to be that type of player at this point in their careers.

I agree that it's neither player's role to be a great playmaker. But for the amount of shots that each takes, it doesn't concern you at all that neither has shown a strong ability to create good shots for their teammates? I does me, some. I'm not ready to sound the alarm but it's something I'm keeping an eye on.
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Re: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2018, 10:01:31 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Obviously, judging what a very vocal minority on this site insist, if you are 22 or younger, don't rack up assists, aren't great playmakers, have bad assist to turnover ratios and don't finish at a high percentage at the rim, you must have a low BBIQ.

Yup, that is what it has to be, Brown and Tatum both are low BBIQ players. Because Jaylen is missing wide open threes and Tatum has decided to do a ton of mid range iso, the worst shots in basketball, they must be basketball stupid....at 22 or less years old.

 ::) ::) ::) :P ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

It's not a comment on their BBIQ's just a question about how concerning is it that the assist numbers for the team's #2 and #3 in FGA are so low. If they're attempting that many shots, I feel like they should also be looking to create more for others and that could help the struggling offense.

Marcus Morris also has anemic assist numbers but his role is basically to be the gunner off the bench, so I get that.
You don't have to have high assist numbers to be an effective player. If both Tatum and Brown were hitting their shots there is no reason to question their low assist numbers. Kyrie is the highest usage player and the player with the most touches. He gets some assists but he isn't racking them up given how much he has the ball. He's a scorer.

Horford might be the best passing big in the league after Jokic but he only gets 5-6 assists per game at best in his career.

Hayward is a great playmaker but even he isn't going to get a ton of assists.

The Celtics have 4 really good playmakers theat can run the offense through Kyrie, Horford, Hayward and Smart. Everyone else has to fall into their role and the roles of Tatum and Brown simply isn't to create offense for others. In this offense Brad is asking Brown to be a 3 and D guy #5 option and Tatum is given the role as finisher/scorer. Neither player is fitting into their role right now, but its neither player's role to be a creative playmaker and get lots of assists.

That is simply, the easiest and most logical answer. Also, at their age and experience level, both players are just not great passers or creators of offense for others. And again, it's not their jobs to be that type of player at this point in their careers.

I agree that it's neither player's role to be a great playmaker. But for the amount of shots that each takes, it doesn't concern you at all that neither has shown a strong ability to create good shots for their teammates? I does me, some. I'm not ready to sound the alarm but it's something I'm keeping an eye on.
No it doesn't bother me because it's not their role and they are so young and have never been playmakers going all the way to high school. They need to concentrate on what they do best. For both players that's not playmaking. Its scoring. Concentrate on being the most efficient scorers possible and slowly over time learn to create for others. Neither Kawhi nor Butler were good creators for others early in their careers. They learned and grew into the roles over time. I have faith these young two studs will as well.

Re: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2018, 11:43:08 PM »

Offline kmart12

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Jaylen has never been a great passer and that issue is compounded by his mediocre ball handling skills. He's best in transition or making linear drives off the catch. Even if Jaylen were to reach his maximum potential, I would never expect him to be averaging much more than 3 assists per game at best. Not really his role and he's not really capable of fulfilling that role.

Tatum could stand to pass more considering he's in more isolation situations and therefore he'll command more attention which creates opportunities for others. However, he's still figuring out how to own his iso game and become an efficient scorer, which will take time and priority over playmaking until it solidifies. Tatum has a good foundational set of handles, which will help in expanding his passing abilities and finding open teammates at some point.

Re: Brown and Tatum's Low Assist Numbers
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2018, 11:48:15 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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Jaylen has never been a great passer and that issue is compounded by his mediocre ball handling skills. He's best in transition or making linear drives off the catch. Even if Jaylen were to reach his maximum potential, I would never expect him to be averaging much more than 3 assists per game at best. Not really his role and he's not really capable of fulfilling that role.

Tatum could stand to pass more considering he's in more isolation situations and therefore he'll command more attention which creates opportunities for others. However, he's still figuring out how to own his iso game and become an efficient scorer, which will take time and priority over playmaking until it solidifies. Tatum has a good foundational set of handles, which will help in expanding his passing abilities and finding open teammates at some point.
Completely agree with this.

 

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