Author Topic: In Praise of Kyrie Irving  (Read 5156 times)

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Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2018, 12:13:39 PM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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Hopefully Smart's tenacity and defense will rub off on Kyrie.

Smart and Morris give us some toughness in the starting lineup. I hope Stevens plays this lineup out for awhile.

Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2018, 12:15:44 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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The Cavs basically didn't replace Irving, had all kinds of injuries and turmoil, and basically ended up with the exact same record and still made the Finals.  The loss of Irving had basically no effect on the Cavs performance last year.

Well, other than they won the championship with Kyrie and didn't without him.  I think that is some affect.

Kyrie isn't Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson but he is a really good player.  Hard to think Cleveland wouldn't be a much better team if they still had him.  I know this isn't exactly what Moranis is saying but you can take what is stated this way.

Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2018, 12:32:23 PM »

Online celticsclay

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I think Kyrie is pretty polarizing on this board for a few reasons.

1) people really invested themselves in arguing the trade, and at some level, want to be right despite the fact that IT has basically not played basketball. Crowded pouted his way out of Cleveland and is an average backup, zizic is irrelevant and the cavs got a project point guard in sexton (he could be good eventually but he isn't exactly doncic)

2) people are Lebron fans, and in some Lebron fans minds, saying Irving wanted his way out of Cleveland for valid reasons is viewed as an indictment on Lebron.

3) he is a weird guy that takes controversial stances, many tied to his Native American heritage. If these views are different or weird it is harder to root against the guy.

4) he is a bad defensive player, though better than he was in Cleveland. For fans of a team that built their squad around the scrappy defense of guards and wings like smart, Bradley, crowder etc, this can be upsetting.

5) we are not playing well as a team and everyone is upset with everyone. But stars and guys getting money, justifiably, get the most
Blame.

Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2018, 01:35:11 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I think Kyrie is pretty polarizing on this board for a few reasons.

1) people really invested themselves in arguing the trade, and at some level, want to be right despite the fact that IT has basically not played basketball. Crowded pouted his way out of Cleveland and is an average backup, zizic is irrelevant and the cavs got a project point guard in sexton (he could be good eventually but he isn't exactly doncic)

2) people are Lebron fans, and in some Lebron fans minds, saying Irving wanted his way out of Cleveland for valid reasons is viewed as an indictment on Lebron.

3) he is a weird guy that takes controversial stances, many tied to his Native American heritage. If these views are different or weird it is harder to root against the guy.

4) he is a bad defensive player, though better than he was in Cleveland. For fans of a team that built their squad around the scrappy defense of guards and wings like smart, Bradley, crowder etc, this can be upsetting.

5) we are not playing well as a team and everyone is upset with everyone. But stars and guys getting money, justifiably, get the most
Blame.

I agree with your reasoning. I will disagree that Irving is a bad defensive player. That's an untrue stigma that continues to follow him.

Winning would probably stop the criticism.
Most talent in the league. We don't want or need AD.

Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2018, 01:47:59 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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I think Kyrie is pretty polarizing on this board for a few reasons.

1) people really invested themselves in arguing the trade, and at some level, want to be right despite the fact that IT has basically not played basketball. Crowded pouted his way out of Cleveland and is an average backup, zizic is irrelevant and the cavs got a project point guard in sexton (he could be good eventually but he isn't exactly doncic)

2) people are Lebron fans, and in some Lebron fans minds, saying Irving wanted his way out of Cleveland for valid reasons is viewed as an indictment on Lebron.

3) he is a weird guy that takes controversial stances, many tied to his Native American heritage. If these views are different or weird it is harder to root against the guy.

4) he is a bad defensive player, though better than he was in Cleveland. For fans of a team that built their squad around the scrappy defense of guards and wings like smart, Bradley, crowder etc, this can be upsetting.

5) we are not playing well as a team and everyone is upset with everyone. But stars and guys getting money, justifiably, get the most
Blame.

I think there's at least one more camp.  I've never liked LeBron as most Celts fans probably wouldn't, and I thought the trade was generally reasonable w/ more info about IT.  Before the trade, I genuinely disliked Kyrie more than any other player in the NBA because he played for CLE, he has always been vastly overrated (e.g., one dimensional, stat padder) and as fortunate as possible (LeBron), and an attention-seeking diva.  The latter is my biggest issue based on my personal preference, and I was admittedly spoiled with our gritty and overachieving Celts for the past few years.  I did expect us to eventually cash in our assets, but I had hoped it would be Butler, and certainly didn't expect it to be Kyrie.  That's the honest truth. 
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2018, 03:01:18 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I think Kyrie is pretty polarizing on this board for a few reasons.

1) people really invested themselves in arguing the trade, and at some level, want to be right despite the fact that IT has basically not played basketball. Crowded pouted his way out of Cleveland and is an average backup, zizic is irrelevant and the cavs got a project point guard in sexton (he could be good eventually but he isn't exactly doncic)

2) people are Lebron fans, and in some Lebron fans minds, saying Irving wanted his way out of Cleveland for valid reasons is viewed as an indictment on Lebron.

3) he is a weird guy that takes controversial stances, many tied to his Native American heritage. If these views are different or weird it is harder to root against the guy.

4) he is a bad defensive player, though better than he was in Cleveland. For fans of a team that built their squad around the scrappy defense of guards and wings like smart, Bradley, crowder etc, this can be upsetting.

5) we are not playing well as a team and everyone is upset with everyone. But stars and guys getting money, justifiably, get the most
Blame.

I think there's at least one more camp.  I've never liked LeBron as most Celts fans probably wouldn't, and I thought the trade was generally reasonable w/ more info about IT.  Before the trade, I genuinely disliked Kyrie more than any other player in the NBA because he played for CLE, he has always been vastly overrated (e.g., one dimensional, stat padder) and as fortunate as possible (LeBron), and an attention-seeking diva.  The latter is my biggest issue based on my personal preference, and I was admittedly spoiled with our gritty and overachieving Celts for the past few years.  I did expect us to eventually cash in our assets, but I had hoped it would be Butler, and certainly didn't expect it to be Kyrie.  That's the honest truth.

I see that camp too.

I would like to see a distinction between fact and opinion. He has played for Cleveland - that is a fact.

Being overrated, fortunate, and an attention-seeking diva -- that is an opinion. I disagree with that opinion, but I understand where you come from.

I think we both hope for success moving forward at this point.
Most talent in the league. We don't want or need AD.

Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2018, 03:06:26 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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I think Kyrie is pretty polarizing on this board for a few reasons.

1) people really invested themselves in arguing the trade, and at some level, want to be right despite the fact that IT has basically not played basketball. Crowded pouted his way out of Cleveland and is an average backup, zizic is irrelevant and the cavs got a project point guard in sexton (he could be good eventually but he isn't exactly doncic)

2) people are Lebron fans, and in some Lebron fans minds, saying Irving wanted his way out of Cleveland for valid reasons is viewed as an indictment on Lebron.

3) he is a weird guy that takes controversial stances, many tied to his Native American heritage. If these views are different or weird it is harder to root against the guy.

4) he is a bad defensive player, though better than he was in Cleveland. For fans of a team that built their squad around the scrappy defense of guards and wings like smart, Bradley, crowder etc, this can be upsetting.

5) we are not playing well as a team and everyone is upset with everyone. But stars and guys getting money, justifiably, get the most
Blame.

I think there's at least one more camp.  I've never liked LeBron as most Celts fans probably wouldn't, and I thought the trade was generally reasonable w/ more info about IT.  Before the trade, I genuinely disliked Kyrie more than any other player in the NBA because he played for CLE, he has always been vastly overrated (e.g., one dimensional, stat padder) and as fortunate as possible (LeBron), and an attention-seeking diva.  The latter is my biggest issue based on my personal preference, and I was admittedly spoiled with our gritty and overachieving Celts for the past few years.  I did expect us to eventually cash in our assets, but I had hoped it would be Butler, and certainly didn't expect it to be Kyrie.  That's the honest truth.

I see that camp too.

I would like to see a distinction between fact and opinion. He has played for Cleveland - that is a fact.

Being overrated, fortunate, and an attention-seeking diva -- that is an opinion. I disagree with that opinion, but I understand where you come from.

I think we both hope for success moving forward at this point.

TP, I appreciate ya.  I agree it's necessarily an opinion though would like to think I've provided enough data to support it, though no judgment on others' opinions.

Yeah, I expected a rocky start, though not this bad.  Still believe they're too talented to fail to right the ship, even if its post-AS break.   It'd be a tough year otherwise.     
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2018, 04:10:43 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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with a coach that has a great rep and is well-liked, stars get blamed more than usual when things aren't going well

Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2018, 04:26:25 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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If he can land AD to Boston ....he trumps Bron

it would make him worth his contract alone

Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2018, 04:38:44 PM »

Offline Big333223

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My theory is that Kyrie suffers from some of the same kind of perception bias Bob Cousy did back in his day. Red initially didn't want Cousy because he thought he was too flashy but then when Cousy actually played for him, he saw that his flash was incidental and he was a fundamentally sound player.

I feel the same way about Kyrie. Because he's flashy, he's often dismissed as a kind of rich man's Jamal Crawford. But having watched him for over a year now, I think he's a very fundamentally sound player, hard worker, and humble, if weird, teammate who just happens to have developed a very flashy style of ball but only because he doesn't know another way.
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Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2018, 05:55:30 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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I just saw this video which I think is from a week ago.  It's of Kyrie doing balance exercises.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nmOYKyI4qzQ

Amazing!

Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2018, 10:26:21 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Since my last update, in 5 games, Irving is averaging 31 mpg with 25 ppg, 7 apg, 4 rpg on 52/43/84 shooting splits.

He continues to make timely defensive plays and close games with his offense. His defense is the best its ever been in his career. He is 6th in defensive rpm among point guards behind only Paul, Lowry, Simmons, Joseph, and his teammate, Marcus Smart.

Kyrie Irving is really good at basketball and has the respect of all the players in the NBA. He continues to improve his defense and play-making -- the two areas he was weakest in. He is the second best shooter among point guards in the NBA.
Most talent in the league. We don't want or need AD.

Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2018, 10:50:09 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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We all know how offense and shooting is elite, but I think heís really stepped up his defense.

I believe his defense in Cleveland was rated terribly (perhaps the worst, statistically), and last year was nothing to write home about. But this season? Heís been very active, making some great swipes/deflections and doing a pretty good job of staying in front of his man.

Maybe he isnít lockdown, but Iím sure heís not the worst-rated PG anymore.

And it makes sense that he has it in him. Why he hasnít applied it fully is another question, but with the footwork, quickness, and coordination he flashes on offense, he can clearly be a very capable defender.

I think this wrinkle is his natural evolution into PRIME Kyrie.
I AM A CELTIC

Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2018, 11:21:41 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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All hail King Kyrie!

We are lucky to have such an amazing player. That man right there is going to lead this team to a title.

Mark my words.

Re: In Praise of Kyrie Irving
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2018, 11:37:09 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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All hail King Kyrie!

We are lucky to have such an amazing player. That man right there is going to lead this team to a title.

Mark my words.

TP Knee !

 

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