Author Topic: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac  (Read 4674 times)

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Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« on: October 23, 2018, 09:37:03 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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"I would have encouraged Kaepernick to speak out. That's our identity in the society we live in. As a white player, I would have joined him, but not in that venue. I agree with people who say he had a responsibility to his cause, but he also had a responsibility to the people who made his brand -- the NFL, San Francisco [49ers]. If he had gotten on the phone and called ESPN and said, "Hey, it's Colin Kaepernick. I have something to say about social injustice," you guys would have had a crew down there to his house immediately. He could have done his thing in the same way, but by bringing it to the NFL, it cost them what? Thirteen percent [of revenue?] He had a responsibility to the NFL not to hurt his brand"

Curious to know what people think about this comment. I find the whole "don't disrupt the brand" a little off-putting for some reason. Like who is he worried about? Owners? Rooks? Erm, white kids??

Saying "he had a responsibility to the NFL not to hurt his brand"? What the hell does that mean? Or am I missing something?

Anyway, fascinating interview. Chuggin until 2am in Raliegh with Chuck C, bahahaha! Cool.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25057057/bob-cousy-reflects-race-making-amends-boston-celtics-teammate-bill-russell
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Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2018, 09:55:14 AM »

Offline gift

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I'm guessing he thinks you should have some respect for the brand since without the brand you don't have the platform. Without the platform, you don't have the opportunity. So do what you feel you need to, but in a way that doesn't disrespect what put you in a position to do it in the first place.


Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2018, 10:04:07 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Cousy is right. The NFL is his employer. Hurting the brand hurts all involved with the brand.

And he’s further correct that athletes have a giant platform. They can raise awareness any time they like.

Jenkins (the guy from the Eagles) started a foundation and got the NFL to chip in like $100 million. Eric Reid - Kap’s right hand man - calls him a sell out. This has become more about “look at me” marketing campaigns than actually helping people.


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Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2018, 10:10:34 AM »

Offline Big333223

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I remember when he first sat during the anthem (remember he didn't start kneeling, he started sitting) I thought to myself, "Well that seems unnecessary," and forgot all about it.

But then came the backlash. I think the hateful way a lot of people responded to a peaceful protest proved the need for the protest.

Cousy also said this:

Quote
I could have gone up like a Colin Kaepernick and made noise when I had a platform to do it, and the fact that I didn't results in some of the guilt I've experienced later on.
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Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2018, 10:15:34 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Cousy is right. The NFL is his employer. Hurting the brand hurts all involved with the brand.

And he’s further correct that athletes have a giant platform. They can raise awareness any time they like.
I think this is a fair point and pretty much how I look at this situation.

While there is free speech and Kap has a right to speak out about an issue that means a lot to him (and to many others and he should not be discouraged from using his right of free speech), there's better times and places to make that statement.

Most people don't have the opportunity/freedom to speak out in their workplace.  it's a place of work, not a political soapbox.  I can see the NFL having that same approach to its employees.   I have no issue with the NFL requiring players to stand for the anthem while encouraging them to speak out on their causes outside the game itself.   I don't think the NFL owners, nor Trump, are right to link Kap's actions to a disrespect to the country nor the military.   It's a free speech issue but free speech that's poorly placed such that its message is lost in the hubbub of how/when it's 'spoken'.    There are better and more effective ways for Kap to have used his fame/notoriety to bring attention to the issue he wants to address.

Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2018, 10:28:23 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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I'm guessing he thinks you should have some respect for the brand since without the brand you don't have the platform. Without the platform, you don't have the opportunity. So do what you feel you need to, but in a way that doesn't disrespect what put you in a position to do it in the first place.

I guess so, but isn't the platform just "sport", and the message something really big and social?

Like, I would get all the fuss if Kaepernick's actions totally ruined football, and kids could no longer make a career out of football, but employers take heat for things not directly related to their business all the time and they are required to maneuver through them.

Like, I'm a lawyer, but when a trial judge says something I vehemently oppose, I take it on appeal. Then if I lose the appeal, I am totally free to criticize the judiciary in the NYT or on Fox (depending on which way I lean on an issue, haha). Now, you could say that I am damaging the "brand" of the justice system (criticizing judges and all), but isn't that what makes the society we live in good?  No?

I hate to spill yet more ink on the Kaepernick thing, and apologies to all those who are sick of debating the myriad overlapping issues, but it's interesting to me.
 
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Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2018, 10:32:23 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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I remember when he first sat during the anthem (remember he didn't start kneeling, he started sitting) I thought to myself, "Well that seems unnecessary," and forgot all about it.

But then came the backlash. I think the hateful way a lot of people responded to a peaceful protest proved the need for the protest.

Cousy also said this:

Quote
I could have gone up like a Colin Kaepernick and made noise when I had a platform to do it, and the fact that I didn't results in some of the guilt I've experienced later on.

Haha, but it wouldn't have been "like" Kaepernick, because you don't have any experience of racism. It would have just been "going up". Cool that he recognizes that. Not cool that he feels guilty. Shouldn't beat yourself up for not being 100 all the time.. It's OK to be wrong, as long as you can reflect and see the injustice - I think most people would think that is cool enough...
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2018, 10:37:13 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Cousy is right. The NFL is his employer. Hurting the brand hurts all involved with the brand.

And he’s further correct that athletes have a giant platform. They can raise awareness any time they like.
I think this is a fair point and pretty much how I look at this situation.

While there is free speech and Kap has a right to speak out about an issue that means a lot to him (and to many others and he should not be discouraged from using his right of free speech), there's better times and places to make that statement.

Most people don't have the opportunity/freedom to speak out in their workplace.  it's a place of work, not a political soapbox.  I can see the NFL having that same approach to its employees.  I have no issue with the NFL requiring players to stand for the anthem while encouraging them to speak out on their causes outside the game itself.  I don't think the NFL owners, nor Trump, are right to link Kap's actions to a disrespect to the country nor the military.   It's a free speech issue but free speech that's poorly placed such that its message is lost in the hubbub of how/when it's 'spoken'.    There are better and more effective ways for Kap to have used his fame/notoriety to bring attention to the issue he wants to address.

Seems to me those two statements contradict each other somehow.
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2018, 10:43:35 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Cousy is right. The NFL is his employer. Hurting the brand hurts all involved with the brand.

And he’s further correct that athletes have a giant platform. They can raise awareness any time they like.

Jenkins (the guy from the Eagles) started a foundation and got the NFL to chip in like $100 million. Eric Reid - Kap’s right hand man - calls him a sell out. This has become more about “look at me” marketing campaigns than actually helping people.

Yeah, I guess you can throw money at problems; corporations do it ALL THE TIME nowadays with their faux "CSR policies". But the problem here seems more structural, more like a way of understanding.

Pretty rough to criticize someone who attacks a social problem in their own way like Jenkins. Some people fought Nazis by going and killing them in Norwegian hillsides. Some people fought Nazis by making art. Who's the bad-guy there?

"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2018, 11:21:22 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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Kaepernick issue aside, I found the article fascinating. Cousy and Russell were the leaders of that dynasty Celtics team and they didn't really have a relationship off the court. The impression you always got was that entire team was like brothers.  Not the case apparently.

That story about Russell burying his head in a newspaper and not acknowledging a white fan jibes with what I'd heard about him when I was a kid.  But I also knew about the defecation incident.  I guess if you never walked in the guy's shoes there's no way you can fully understand where he's coming from.

It's no surprise to me that Russell had a tough time here off the court given what Boston was like in the 50's and 60's -  and the 70's which is when I was grew up.

Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2018, 12:01:31 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Seems pretty disingenuous from a guy that didn't come forward and speak on the racial prejudice his team mate Bill Russell was going through. What Russell went through, especially in the town of Reading, was disgusting, but Cousy said nothing.

But he is okay with criticizing Kapernick for trying to bring racial problems to the forefront. Shame on you Bob Cousy.

Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2018, 12:31:51 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Seems pretty disingenuous from a guy that didn't come forward and speak on the racial prejudice his team mate Bill Russell was going through. What Russell went through, especially in the town of Reading, was disgusting, but Cousy said nothing.

But he is okay with criticizing Kapernick for trying to bring racial problems to the forefront. Shame on you Bob Cousy.
Cousy said he feels regret for not speaking up about things like that during his career in the article. I know it's not as good acting in the moment, but still.

He didn't criticise what Kap did. Not sure how that's what you inferred from "I would have encouraged Kapernick to speak out." Criticising the forum and the manner of a protest is very different to criticising someone speaking out on racial problems.

Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2018, 12:43:41 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Seems pretty disingenuous from a guy that didn't come forward and speak on the racial prejudice his team mate Bill Russell was going through. What Russell went through, especially in the town of Reading, was disgusting, but Cousy said nothing.

But he is okay with criticizing Kapernick for trying to bring racial problems to the forefront. Shame on you Bob Cousy.
Cousy said he feels regret for not speaking up about things like that during his career in the article. I know it's not as good acting in the moment, but still.

He didn't criticise what Kap did. Not sure how that's what you inferred from "I would have encouraged Kapernick to speak out." Criticising the forum and the manner of a protest is very different to criticising someone speaking out on racial problems.
Cousy said in the interview that he didn't know about Russ' problems until later. 

Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2018, 01:07:08 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Seems pretty disingenuous from a guy that didn't come forward and speak on the racial prejudice his team mate Bill Russell was going through. What Russell went through, especially in the town of Reading, was disgusting, but Cousy said nothing.

But he is okay with criticizing Kapernick for trying to bring racial problems to the forefront. Shame on you Bob Cousy.
Cousy said he feels regret for not speaking up about things like that during his career in the article. I know it's not as good acting in the moment, but still.

He didn't criticise what Kap did. Not sure how that's what you inferred from "I would have encouraged Kapernick to speak out." Criticising the forum and the manner of a protest is very different to criticising someone speaking out on racial problems.
Cousy said in the interview that he didn't know about Russ' problems until later.
I cry bull on that, You have a black team mate living in a suburban white neighborhood. Someone breaks into his house and deficates in beds in the bedrooms and not only do you claim to not know anything about it and don't say much condemning it you ignore it happened.

Re: Cousy sitdown with Jackie Mac
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2018, 07:47:41 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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The things Bill Russell and other Afro-American Folks had to endure in the 50s and 60s were a lot worse than anything Kapernick had to deal with and they not got paid the $$$ like he did.   The comparison lacks perspective.

I think Bob feels guilty and this is his mea cupla, plain and simple.

 

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