what I mean is, Embiid can get the ball in single coverage and get off any shot he wants against Baynes unless there is a double team. He dribbles to any spot on the floor, he backs him down, and yes just shoots right over him. Embiid isn't blowing by him on the dribble or anything (I don't think I ever implied that, but if I did it wasn't my intent), but he can get to the spots he wants and can shoot basically unhindered by Baynes.
Better is subjective. In the 5 minutes 20 seconds or so Baynes was on the floor at the start of the 3rd quarter, the Celtics gained 2 points on the Sixers. However at the start of the game, Baynes was on the bench for the first 9 minutes or so and in that time the Celtics gained 7 points on the Sixers. So sure, they were 2 points better than the Sixers with Baynes starting the 2nd half, but they were actually worse then they were at the start of the game when Baynes was on the bench. So were they better?
Actually that has been my point. I have made it several times. Boston is better when Horford is on Embiid because Horford is quicker and better able to stay with Embiid when he floats around the 3 point line and is strong enough to make him work in the paint (and the Sixers other big is Saric who can be guarded by Tatum easily enough). If you go back and read the Baynes starting thread, you will find me making that point several times.
Baynes can be a good defender on Embiid and also not nearly as good as Horford, who probably defends him as well as anyone in the league. Both can be true.
Correct, and that speaks to how good Horford. However, Moranis point isn't to credit Horford is, but instead to discredit Baynes. Just take a look at his comment where he thinks that Baynes needs help from teammates because he can't handle Embiid's quickness. That's devoid of reality and it speaks as to a person that either doesn't watch the game or doesn't want to acknowledge what he's observing. What makes Baynes so unique is that he has very good lateral mobility for a player his size. Moranis makes it sound as though he's Monroe.
I would love to see it this video evidence where Embiid's is facing up and blowing past Baynes regularly.
The simple reality is, despite being a shell of himself physically, Stevens started Hayward along with Brown and Tatum and brought Baynes off the bench. That seems to prove the point I'd been arguing in that thread, that Boston is better off not starting Baynes against the Sixers. Against certain teams, I absolutely could see Baynes starting (like I wouldn't really want Tatum to be forced to guard Blake Griffin or Kevin Love at the start of a game as that is a recipe for foul trouble for him and those teams have interior oriented centers that won't stretch Baynes out to the 3 point line).
Actually Boston did better vs Philly in the 3rd quarter when Baynes started. Hayward starting only proves that Stevens knows he needs to get Hayward going and get him reps. Also, your original argument in that thread was that Baynes canít guard Embiid, which youíve modified to Ďcanít guard Embiid as well as Horfordí as it has become clear that Baynes does well with Embiid.
I maintain my position that Baynes can't effectively guard Embiid over the long haul. He doesn't have the speed, quickness, etc. to do so for any period of time. And given the PF is Saric, there is no need for 2 bigs to be on the floor, so like opening night, and barring injury the small starting 5 will be out there against the Sixers
I don't recall Embiid beating Baynes with his speed even one time last night. Baynes doesn't have the length to bother some of Embiid's shots but as far as I can remember he's always been able to stay in front of Embiid without any trouble.
First you said Baynes isn't fast enough to guard Embiid. Now you're saying Embiid just shoots over Baynes.
Neither is true. Like I said before, Baynes is giving up some height so there are going to be times Embiid goes over the top but the idea that he does so "unhindered by Baynes" is simply not what happens. There's a ton of video on this. Baynes is explicitly cited by outside NBA writers as playing Embiid very well. The only evidence you've given is an on/off statistic that doesn't actually address the thing you're claiming.
You act like I'm being inconsistent, I'm not. He doesn't have the foot speed, timing speed, or the lateral quickness to stay with Embiid or give him any real shooting difficulty. Embiid can also just shoot right over him. Even in the highlight video from the playoffs last year (it was posted in the other thread), you see Embiid get the ball at about 10 feet, dribble Baynes down, make a quick move to the side and get a shot off unhindered by Baynes. That happens a number of times in that video. It was a C's highlight so they showed Embiid's misses. In other clips, you see Tatum drop into a double team and force a turnover, and you see Baynes commit a hard foul that clearly aggravated Embiid (but it was still a foul).
Horford on the other hand can stay with Embiid much better, both off the dribble and when Embiid goes up for shots (Horford is a much faster reactor on shots). Embiid is very good so he still gets his against Horford, but Horford makes him work a lot more and the C's as a team generally don't have to double team as much, which also helps the team defense overall.
Baynes is a nice solid role player, but he is very limited against someone like Embiid, and because the Sixers don't have a PF that can cause real problems for Tatum, there is no reason for Baynes to start or play all that much against the Sixers (if Hayward wasn't coming back from injury with minutes issues, he would have started the 2nd half). A team like Detroit or Cleveland, where they have a solely interior center and a much bigger, stronger, etc. power forward, then starting and playing Baynes more makes a lot more sense.