Author Topic: Ten Thoughts From Game 1  (Read 5148 times)

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Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #90 on: October 18, 2018, 03:36:27 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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JMO, but I think Butler is a better comparison for Jaylen. And Jaylen is further along at this stage of his career than Butler was, and 3 years his younger than Butler was.

Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #91 on: October 18, 2018, 03:55:56 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Disagree with 7. Brown didn't finish well tonight but with his usual finishing, he probably puts up 20 tonight. Brown will be a two way star. He has to stay and be used properly.
But youíre only half addressing the point.  I think someone is going to get lost amid all these A players.  I happen to think that guy will be Brown.
I think they will all find their role and on different nights, the leading scorer and star will be different and on many, many nights that star is Brown.

Brown missed several lay ups/offensive rebounds/makeable shots. He could easily have gone for 20+ tonight and if he did I am sure you aren't calling to trade him.
Iím not those makeable misses.  As I recall, he was swallowed up inside several times and heís never really been known for his touch around the rim anyway.

As far as calling to trade him, thatís not really the premise of my thread last week.  I more was pointing to a guy that might be replaced by another guy to make us better (theoretically).  For instance, I think the Celtics would be better right now with someone like reddick versus brown.

Reddick over Brown? Really? Reddick is 34, Brown is 21
Thats not the point.  I think reddick would be a better fit in this team and make us better right now.
Ugh, no way at all. Marginally better shooter than Brown, better off ball movement, but his defence and absolute lack of versatility would be terrible for us
Thats fine.  Iím referring to fit, and someone that can cause havoc without having the ball in his hands.  Of course brown is a better defender and more versatile but we have that in spades anyway.  One less versatile guy isnít going to kill this team.
I think you're underestimating how important Brown is to our perimeter defence. He's our best guy to defend the Thompson's, DeRozan's, Middleton's and other tall guard/wings of the league. Almost all the elite teams in the league have a player like that, and Redick routinely gets crushed by them. Would kill us over a series
Perhaps.  But is brown going to accept the defensive stopper role that is a fifth or sixth option on offense?  Thatís part of the point.
We can't tell, but I don't necessarily think he'll be a 5th or 6th option offensively long term at all. I think the #3 or #4 guy, depending on how much Hayward turns into what is effectively the wing version of Horford, is much more likely. Just because he's a defensive stopper doesn't mean he can't get 12-15 FGA's
Yeah, thatís where we differ.  I think Hayward will be fine.  And I donít think jaylen will ever be as good as peak Hayward.  His feel for the game is just so far below average, even for his age.  I donít think it will ever be average.

First, he's 21. Which means that if it was the 1980s, he wouldn't even be in the league. There are *so many* players who have made major improvements in their game feel in their mid-20s. 

Second, I really disagree that his feel for the game is grossly deficient. I would not say he's at the top of the pile, but I also wouldn't say he's at the bottom. His defensive awareness is good and improving. For offensive game feel, I saw him make a couple of very smart decisions - recognizing when he had a smaller man on him and taking him into the post for an easy bucket using the moves he developed over the winter. That's clear growth over an offseason. His handle is miles better than in his year 1. There are other examples, but you are really underselling him.

As a reminder: 18 points on .563 TS% during the playoffs last year - including a few games where he was half strength due to injury.
I'm not sure there is any way to prove feel for the game one way or the other BUT, it was basically Brown's scouting report coming.  It's pretty obvious to me when I watch him.  He hesitates or he pre-determines moves, and he still often finds himself in bad situations when driving to the basket.  That's all feel for the game and it's not where it should be for a guy his age (IF you're projecting a star player).  Look at any other of the guys that the Celts have developed in recent years and feel for the game is not something that has come up.

As far as last year, I think Jaylen is pretty good if he's told to just go get it.  Still makes mistakes but less feel and thinking involved.  But what happens when that's not the case?  He's hesitant and unsure of how to fit in offensively.  He also has very little playmaking ability beyond scoring; doesn't/can't get others involved.  I don't think these points are controversial at all.

And the Pierce, Butler, Kawhi, etc. comps are cool.  And perhaps, those are his ceiling comps (as posters are prone to use).  But what are the odds that he reaches those heights?  How realistic are they?  Jaylen is just as likely to be the next Ricky Davis. 

« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 04:01:06 PM by droopdog7 »

Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #92 on: October 18, 2018, 04:09:29 PM »

Offline blink

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Are we really still debating if Brown is better than Reddick?  I personally don't think that is even close.  JJ is a great shooter, but he is old and limited on def.  Jaylen shot 39+% from 3 last year in the regular season and in the playoffs.  If we ever do trade Jaylen we better be getting a lot better back than Reddick....

Did someone forget that Brown scored almost as much as Tatum in last years playoffs and was a better def player?  Did someone forget that Brown improved literally the whole year (like tatum)?

(1) 12 point game and people think Brown is regressing lol.


Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #93 on: October 18, 2018, 04:13:32 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Jaylen is already better than Ricky Davis ever was. Davis might have had better numbers, but Jaylen already contributes more to wins.

What I love about Jaylen is how quietly he produces. When Tatum puts up 20 in a playoff game, everybody lost their mind, but when Jaylen does on the same efficiency, he goes largely unnoticed.

He was the 2nd leading scorer on a conference final team. He defended anyone from JJ Reddick to Lebron James with success.  He shoots 40% from three, but everyone says that is inflated. He places 9th in Defensive MVP voting, but few talk about how the Cs became a top 5 defense when he replaced Bradley in the starting lineup. He doesn't need the ball to score his points, but everyone questions his play-making abilities. He abuses smaller players in the post, but everyone questions his handles. He pushes the tempo to get us easy buckets, but everyone is complaining about his free throw percentage.

Irving, Hayward, and Horford will score points this year, but they will largely ride into the playoffs on teh backs of Rozier, Brown, and Tatum. The older guys will facilitate for the younger guys, and the younger guys will wingames with energy and aggression.
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Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #94 on: October 18, 2018, 09:24:14 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Jaylen had a bad game 1 and showed that he still isn't over his propensity to force the issue when he shouldn't. But he's only going to be 22 years old when he has his next birthday and we're a few months removed from him averaging 18-5 on .549 eFG% in an ECF run.

I'm not concerned at all.
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Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #95 on: October 19, 2018, 12:27:42 AM »

Offline playdream

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One thing that stood out to me in game 1 is Brown's lack of BBall IQ

In many occasions he can make a better choice but he chose the bad one and got blocked or turned it over badly

Meanwhile his strength and athleticism is undeniable (along with his shooting), the dunk on Embiid is the perfect example, he is supposed to get embarrassed but instead he pulled it out

It's not saying Brown is a bad player in anyway but more of a frustration seeing how much he is getting limited and is going to be limited by his lack of BBall IQ, he can easily got 20 instead if 12 in that game and made his name on the media with Tatum

One can not resist but to think only if he can spend his time working on that game knowledge/concepts instead speaking in MIT

Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #96 on: October 19, 2018, 01:04:03 AM »

Offline gouki88

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One thing that stood out to me in game 1 is Brown's lack of BBall IQ

In many occasions he can make a better choice but he chose the bad one and got blocked or turned it over badly

Meanwhile his strength and athleticism is undeniable (along with his shooting), the dunk on Embiid is the perfect example, he is supposed to get embarrassed but instead he pulled it out

It's not saying Brown is a bad player in anyway but more of a frustration seeing how much he is getting limited and is going to be limited by his lack of BBall IQ, he can easily got 20 instead if 12 in that game and made his name on the media with Tatum

One can not resist but to think only if he can spend his time working on that game knowledge/concepts instead speaking in MIT
His lack of BBIQ is certainly frustrating, but I think trying to attribute it to his interests outside of basketball isnít the way to go. Gordon Hayward spends heaps of time gaming, yet his BBIQ is off the charts.

Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #97 on: October 19, 2018, 01:06:31 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Browns bbiq is higher than you think. He led the team in scoring last year in playoffs. You don't get to do that with "low bbiq."  I would say those blocked shots and bad decisions was rust

Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #98 on: October 19, 2018, 04:51:24 AM »

Offline playdream

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One thing that stood out to me in game 1 is Brown's lack of BBall IQ

In many occasions he can make a better choice but he chose the bad one and got blocked or turned it over badly

Meanwhile his strength and athleticism is undeniable (along with his shooting), the dunk on Embiid is the perfect example, he is supposed to get embarrassed but instead he pulled it out

It's not saying Brown is a bad player in anyway but more of a frustration seeing how much he is getting limited and is going to be limited by his lack of BBall IQ, he can easily got 20 instead if 12 in that game and made his name on the media with Tatum

One can not resist but to think only if he can spend his time working on that game knowledge/concepts instead speaking in MIT
His lack of BBIQ is certainly frustrating, but I think trying to attribute it to his interests outside of basketball isnít the way to go. Gordon Hayward spends heaps of time gaming, yet his BBIQ is off the charts.
The games Hayward plays actually demand a very high level of constant decision making as well as reading of the game, teamwork, ect

My stance for interests outside of basketball is if you are capable of taking care of your business i don't mind you do whatever you want to do, like kyrie's movie, but Brown apparently has a long long way to go

Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #99 on: October 19, 2018, 04:53:52 AM »

Offline playdream

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Browns bbiq is higher than you think. He led the team in scoring last year in playoffs. You don't get to do that with "low bbiq."  I would say those blocked shots and bad decisions was rust
The decision to try to drive a straight line to dunk from halfcourt looks more a lack of BBall IQ then rust to me..

Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #100 on: October 19, 2018, 05:13:56 AM »

Online Monkhouse

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One thing that stood out to me in game 1 is Brown's lack of BBall IQ

In many occasions he can make a better choice but he chose the bad one and got blocked or turned it over badly

Meanwhile his strength and athleticism is undeniable (along with his shooting), the dunk on Embiid is the perfect example, he is supposed to get embarrassed but instead he pulled it out

It's not saying Brown is a bad player in anyway but more of a frustration seeing how much he is getting limited and is going to be limited by his lack of BBall IQ, he can easily got 20 instead if 12 in that game and made his name on the media with Tatum

One can not resist but to think only if he can spend his time working on that game knowledge/concepts instead speaking in MIT

It's not like Brown was a slouch in the off-season...

Excuse me, do you personally know Brown outside of the Celtic forums? So how can you make such a outlandish statement? He trained with Hardaway, and McGrady, and played pick up basketball overseas... Once Brown improves his ball handling, we'll see a noticeable difference... And it's the first game lol.
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Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #101 on: October 19, 2018, 05:50:31 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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One thing that stood out to me in game 1 is Brown's lack of BBall IQ

In many occasions he can make a better choice but he chose the bad one and got blocked or turned it over badly

Meanwhile his strength and athleticism is undeniable (along with his shooting), the dunk on Embiid is the perfect example, he is supposed to get embarrassed but instead he pulled it out

It's not saying Brown is a bad player in anyway but more of a frustration seeing how much he is getting limited and is going to be limited by his lack of BBall IQ, he can easily got 20 instead if 12 in that game and made his name on the media with Tatum

One can not resist but to think only if he can spend his time working on that game knowledge/concepts instead speaking in MIT

It's not like Brown was a slouch in the off-season...

Excuse me, do you personally know Brown outside of the Celtic forums? So how can you make such a outlandish statement? He trained with Hardaway, and McGrady, and played pick up basketball overseas... Once Brown improves his ball handling, we'll see a noticeable difference... And it's the first game lol.

Jaylen will score 20 in the next week and there will be a thread on which Jay is better.  I donít think there is much question that Tatum will be better, but memories are short ó Jaylen had many moments last year when he seemed the better player (if not the higher ceiling).  Donít underestimate the fickleness of this board. We may even see it tonight.

Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #102 on: October 19, 2018, 06:33:57 AM »

Offline playdream

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One thing that stood out to me in game 1 is Brown's lack of BBall IQ

In many occasions he can make a better choice but he chose the bad one and got blocked or turned it over badly

Meanwhile his strength and athleticism is undeniable (along with his shooting), the dunk on Embiid is the perfect example, he is supposed to get embarrassed but instead he pulled it out

It's not saying Brown is a bad player in anyway but more of a frustration seeing how much he is getting limited and is going to be limited by his lack of BBall IQ, he can easily got 20 instead if 12 in that game and made his name on the media with Tatum

One can not resist but to think only if he can spend his time working on that game knowledge/concepts instead speaking in MIT

It's not like Brown was a slouch in the off-season...

Excuse me, do you personally know Brown outside of the Celtic forums? So how can you make such a outlandish statement? He trained with Hardaway, and McGrady, and played pick up basketball overseas... Once Brown improves his ball handling, we'll see a noticeable difference... And it's the first game lol.
I know you are a Brown fan boy but it's pretty obvious his lack of BBall IQ is holding him back

Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #103 on: October 19, 2018, 06:50:55 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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One thing that stood out to me in game 1 is Brown's lack of BBall IQ

In many occasions he can make a better choice but he chose the bad one and got blocked or turned it over badly

Meanwhile his strength and athleticism is undeniable (along with his shooting), the dunk on Embiid is the perfect example, he is supposed to get embarrassed but instead he pulled it out

It's not saying Brown is a bad player in anyway but more of a frustration seeing how much he is getting limited and is going to be limited by his lack of BBall IQ, he can easily got 20 instead if 12 in that game and made his name on the media with Tatum

One can not resist but to think only if he can spend his time working on that game knowledge/concepts instead speaking in MIT

It's not like Brown was a slouch in the off-season...

Excuse me, do you personally know Brown outside of the Celtic forums? So how can you make such a outlandish statement? He trained with Hardaway, and McGrady, and played pick up basketball overseas... Once Brown improves his ball handling, we'll see a noticeable difference... And it's the first game lol.
I know you are a Brown fan boy but it's pretty obvious his lack of BBall IQ is holding him back

Sure, but outside activies has no correlation to BBIQ. I guess you were part of the crowd that said Brown wasn't training due to the lack of videos.

Players can give speeches, they can attend their friend's parties or whatever they want to do in the offseason. Not a single basketball player in history spends his time on the game whenever they dont eat&sleep.

Re: Ten Thoughts From Game 1
« Reply #104 on: October 19, 2018, 10:56:49 AM »

Offline playdream

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One thing that stood out to me in game 1 is Brown's lack of BBall IQ

In many occasions he can make a better choice but he chose the bad one and got blocked or turned it over badly

Meanwhile his strength and athleticism is undeniable (along with his shooting), the dunk on Embiid is the perfect example, he is supposed to get embarrassed but instead he pulled it out

It's not saying Brown is a bad player in anyway but more of a frustration seeing how much he is getting limited and is going to be limited by his lack of BBall IQ, he can easily got 20 instead if 12 in that game and made his name on the media with Tatum

One can not resist but to think only if he can spend his time working on that game knowledge/concepts instead speaking in MIT

It's not like Brown was a slouch in the off-season...

Excuse me, do you personally know Brown outside of the Celtic forums? So how can you make such a outlandish statement? He trained with Hardaway, and McGrady, and played pick up basketball overseas... Once Brown improves his ball handling, we'll see a noticeable difference... And it's the first game lol.
I know you are a Brown fan boy but it's pretty obvious his lack of BBall IQ is holding him back

Sure, but outside activies has no correlation to BBIQ. I guess you were part of the crowd that said Brown wasn't training due to the lack of videos.

Players can give speeches, they can attend their friend's parties or whatever they want to do in the offseason. Not a single basketball player in history spends his time on the game whenever they dont eat&sleep.
You are right i'm the one who called out brown for not showing training videos and short after that he put it all out, so maybe he heard me 8)

I'm pretty sure most players don't travel across the world in the summer and give speechs on many different field during the season like brown did, not saying he can't do that, just if he spent too much time on it he won't have enough time to improve his basketball
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 11:05:59 AM by playdream »

 

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