Baynes needs to be part of the starting five

[footey]

I agree that Baynes, short term, could start selectively vs some teams where he matches up better vs that team's center, and Horford can be more effective in the 4 position.

Long term, Baynes is not the answer for those situations, though. He just is too lacking, skill wise, athletically, and length wise. He was a back up center for the dreadful Pistons just a couple of seasons ago.  I like him, but let's taper expectations here.

My problem with the starting lineup that Brad is likely to play most games (Horford, Irving, Brown, Hayward and Tatum) is that it has an over-abundance of wings, creating too much redundancy in a particular position. I know that such a thing should not exist in this era of positionless basketball, but it sure looked that way to me watching them the first two preseason game.

I realize Hayward is still rusty, and battle shy, but wouldn't his skills be utilized better if we had another big on the floor for him to play pick and roll with?  Such as Williams or Theis?

Our biggest lack offensively seems to be in offensive rebounds, and scoring easy, close to basket buckets (i.e., dunks and layups).  I think we rank as one of the worst teams in 2 point FG %, and this is often an indication of not getting enough easy buckets close to the rim.  Sure would be nice to develop our offensive scheme around the ability to do that better.  Right now, we have a lineup the primary focus on offense seems to be who to create the best 3 point shot.

Live by the 3, die by the 3.

[Vermont Green]

I think the Celtics are going to settle on a starting 5 and stay with it, not vary it game to game based on match-ups.  Rotations after the game starts will be adjusted of course.  We'll see.

Regarding Baynes, there is no doubt that there are more talented players at their position than Baynes is at his position.  Just considering that Hayward could come off the bench, he is a better player no doubt as is Smart, Rozier, and maybe even Morris.  But due to our roster balance (or lack of balance) Baynes, Theis, Ojeleye, Williams, are all going to need to play.

I am not sold on a line up of 1 PG, 3 Wings, and a Big.  It may work out.  Also, there is no rule that says you have to start your 5 best players.  It would be nice if your 5 best players all played different positions so you could start them all but there are examples of championship teams that brought one of their top 5 players off the bench (Spurs-Manu Ginobili, GSW-Andre Iguodala, Celtics-John Havlicek).  No reason at all that the current Celtics couldn't do the same.

[Rondo9]

Against Toronto, sure absolutely.  Baynes makes a lot of sense against that lineup going against Jonas while Horford takes on Ibaka.  Against Philadelphia, nope, Baynes has no real shot at guarding Embiid over the long haul and Tatum would do fine on Saric. 

So, sure a few matchups (and it is a few) it makes sense to start Baynes, but against most teams, Tatum will be the better start and better fit.

Someone didn't watch round 2 of the playoffs.

23/14/3.6, man Embiid sure was shut down.

How about these +- numbers.

Game 1 - Baynes -1 in 29 minutes, Boston +17 in the other 19 minutes
Game 2 - Baynes -16 in 21 minutes, Boston +21 in the other 27 minutes
Game 3 - Baynes -8 in 23 minutes, Boston +11 in the other 25 minutes
Game 4 - Baynes -9 in 19 minutes, Boston -2 in the other 29 minutes
Game 5 - Baynes -6 in 25 minutes, Boston +8 in the other 23 minutes

Embiid btw had the best +- of the Sixers starters (Redick was near him, no one else was close). 

No matter how you slice it, Boston won in spite of Baynes, not because of Baynes.  He was awful in that series because he can't guard Embiid.  Not at all.

I agree that we are probably overrating Baynes' abilities on the basketball court. He is a fine rotation player that provides IQ and toughness, but he is not an Embiid-stopper.

That said, regardless of stats, Baynes did make several key plays against Embiid in that series. Those plays may not have advanced stats to back it up, but they caused or prolonged runs for the Cs.

You want guys on your bench that know how to make timely plays like that.

I like Baynes.  I'm fine with him starting against teams like Toronto, as I said.  I'd also add in Detroit, Cleveland, and Miami (off the top of my head), just based on match-ups and what not, but he is a bench guy that even when he starts doesn't get starter minutes for a reason.  That is his role. 

I've seen the elevation of Boston's bench players on this site reach pretty epic proportions lately.  We should all be scaling that back a great deal.

Sigh who is elevating the bench player to epic proportions? Proof? Link?

[Moranis]

Against Toronto, sure absolutely.  Baynes makes a lot of sense against that lineup going against Jonas while Horford takes on Ibaka.  Against Philadelphia, nope, Baynes has no real shot at guarding Embiid over the long haul and Tatum would do fine on Saric. 

So, sure a few matchups (and it is a few) it makes sense to start Baynes, but against most teams, Tatum will be the better start and better fit.

Someone didn't watch round 2 of the playoffs.

23/14/3.6, man Embiid sure was shut down.

How about these +- numbers.

Game 1 - Baynes -1 in 29 minutes, Boston +17 in the other 19 minutes
Game 2 - Baynes -16 in 21 minutes, Boston +21 in the other 27 minutes
Game 3 - Baynes -8 in 23 minutes, Boston +11 in the other 25 minutes
Game 4 - Baynes -9 in 19 minutes, Boston -2 in the other 29 minutes
Game 5 - Baynes -6 in 25 minutes, Boston +8 in the other 23 minutes

Embiid btw had the best +- of the Sixers starters (Redick was near him, no one else was close). 

No matter how you slice it, Boston won in spite of Baynes, not because of Baynes.  He was awful in that series because he can't guard Embiid.  Not at all.

I agree that we are probably overrating Baynes' abilities on the basketball court. He is a fine rotation player that provides IQ and toughness, but he is not an Embiid-stopper.

That said, regardless of stats, Baynes did make several key plays against Embiid in that series. Those plays may not have advanced stats to back it up, but they caused or prolonged runs for the Cs.

You want guys on your bench that know how to make timely plays like that.

I like Baynes.  I'm fine with him starting against teams like Toronto, as I said.  I'd also add in Detroit, Cleveland, and Miami (off the top of my head), just based on match-ups and what not, but he is a bench guy that even when he starts doesn't get starter minutes for a reason.  That is his role. 

I've seen the elevation of Boston's bench players on this site reach pretty epic proportions lately.  We should all be scaling that back a great deal.

Sigh who is elevating the bench player to epic proportions? Proof? Link?

Look at this thread, the Morris thread, the Rozier threads, the Smart threads, etc. There are numerous threads about the quality of Boston's bench and people wondering how many games the bench would win if it was the team (and there were a lot of people that projected the bench team to be nowhere near the worst team in the league).   These type of threads are all over this site.  It has reached crazy ridiculous levels.

[Big333223]

I wonder who the OP wants to remove from the starting lineup to make room for Baynes.

[Rondo9]

Against Toronto, sure absolutely.  Baynes makes a lot of sense against that lineup going against Jonas while Horford takes on Ibaka.  Against Philadelphia, nope, Baynes has no real shot at guarding Embiid over the long haul and Tatum would do fine on Saric. 

So, sure a few matchups (and it is a few) it makes sense to start Baynes, but against most teams, Tatum will be the better start and better fit.

Someone didn't watch round 2 of the playoffs.

23/14/3.6, man Embiid sure was shut down.

How about these +- numbers.

Game 1 - Baynes -1 in 29 minutes, Boston +17 in the other 19 minutes
Game 2 - Baynes -16 in 21 minutes, Boston +21 in the other 27 minutes
Game 3 - Baynes -8 in 23 minutes, Boston +11 in the other 25 minutes
Game 4 - Baynes -9 in 19 minutes, Boston -2 in the other 29 minutes
Game 5 - Baynes -6 in 25 minutes, Boston +8 in the other 23 minutes

Embiid btw had the best +- of the Sixers starters (Redick was near him, no one else was close). 

No matter how you slice it, Boston won in spite of Baynes, not because of Baynes.  He was awful in that series because he can't guard Embiid.  Not at all.

I agree that we are probably overrating Baynes' abilities on the basketball court. He is a fine rotation player that provides IQ and toughness, but he is not an Embiid-stopper.

That said, regardless of stats, Baynes did make several key plays against Embiid in that series. Those plays may not have advanced stats to back it up, but they caused or prolonged runs for the Cs.

You want guys on your bench that know how to make timely plays like that.

I like Baynes.  I'm fine with him starting against teams like Toronto, as I said.  I'd also add in Detroit, Cleveland, and Miami (off the top of my head), just based on match-ups and what not, but he is a bench guy that even when he starts doesn't get starter minutes for a reason.  That is his role. 

I've seen the elevation of Boston's bench players on this site reach pretty epic proportions lately.  We should all be scaling that back a great deal.

Sigh who is elevating the bench player to epic proportions? Proof? Link?

Look at this thread, the Morris thread, the Rozier threads, the Smart threads, etc. There are numerous threads about the quality of Boston's bench and people wondering how many games the bench would win if it was the team (and there were a lot of people that projected the bench team to be nowhere near the worst team in the league).   These type of threads are all over this site.  It has reached crazy ridiculous levels.

All I’m going to say is so what? We’re close to the beginning of the season after what felt like a long off season. It’s natural for fans to hype their players, the team seems to be headed for great things and of course people are excited. But I’m sure if people were hyping up the Sixers to “ridiculous levels” you would have no problem with it. 

[RodyTur10]

I wonder who the OP wants to remove from the starting lineup to make room for Baynes.

Hayward. He has the experience and ball handling to keep the level of play up to par when the starters get rest. I don't want to rely on Smart (how much I do love him) to instigate the offense and his shooting.

I just like to see balanced units out there in terms of position, overall quality, ball handling, shooting, rebounding and defense. Why put in a second unit that is a significant drop off when you don't have to?

[trickybilly]

I wouldn't mind Tatum joining the bench mob. Gary Harris has become a star playing off that bench. For the next year or so, high minutes bench guy, get him to work on his wing pick and roll with Marcus.

[greece66]

Is it a given that Hayward will be starting in October and November?

From the little I watched, he doesn't seem to be at 100% - maybe ppl who watched the two preseason games in full can fill us in.

[Eddie20]

I wouldn't mind Tatum joining the bench mob. Gary Harris has become a star playing off that bench. For the next year or so, high minutes bench guy, get him to work on his wing pick and roll with Marcus.

Harris does not come off the bench and has been the starter for several years.

[playdream]

Against Toronto, sure absolutely.  Baynes makes a lot of sense against that lineup going against Jonas while Horford takes on Ibaka.  Against Philadelphia, nope, Baynes has no real shot at guarding Embiid over the long haul and Tatum would do fine on Saric. 

So, sure a few matchups (and it is a few) it makes sense to start Baynes, but against most teams, Tatum will be the better start and better fit.

Someone didn't watch round 2 of the playoffs.

23/14/3.6, man Embiid sure was shut down.

How about these +- numbers.

Game 1 - Baynes -1 in 29 minutes, Boston +17 in the other 19 minutes
Game 2 - Baynes -16 in 21 minutes, Boston +21 in the other 27 minutes
Game 3 - Baynes -8 in 23 minutes, Boston +11 in the other 25 minutes
Game 4 - Baynes -9 in 19 minutes, Boston -2 in the other 29 minutes
Game 5 - Baynes -6 in 25 minutes, Boston +8 in the other 23 minutes

Embiid btw had the best +- of the Sixers starters (Redick was near him, no one else was close). 

No matter how you slice it, Boston won in spite of Baynes, not because of Baynes.  He was awful in that series because he can't guard Embiid.  Not at all.

This is why you have to actually watch the games, Stevens put Baynes on Embiid, Baynes very much limited Embiid's damage and made him gassed, but he is still their biggest star weapon so of course Baynes will be minus and Embiid plus, if you remove Baynes we will be blew out during that duration of time, thats why Brad keep playing Baynes

[Moranis]

Against Toronto, sure absolutely.  Baynes makes a lot of sense against that lineup going against Jonas while Horford takes on Ibaka.  Against Philadelphia, nope, Baynes has no real shot at guarding Embiid over the long haul and Tatum would do fine on Saric. 

So, sure a few matchups (and it is a few) it makes sense to start Baynes, but against most teams, Tatum will be the better start and better fit.

Someone didn't watch round 2 of the playoffs.

23/14/3.6, man Embiid sure was shut down.

How about these +- numbers.

Game 1 - Baynes -1 in 29 minutes, Boston +17 in the other 19 minutes
Game 2 - Baynes -16 in 21 minutes, Boston +21 in the other 27 minutes
Game 3 - Baynes -8 in 23 minutes, Boston +11 in the other 25 minutes
Game 4 - Baynes -9 in 19 minutes, Boston -2 in the other 29 minutes
Game 5 - Baynes -6 in 25 minutes, Boston +8 in the other 23 minutes

Embiid btw had the best +- of the Sixers starters (Redick was near him, no one else was close). 

No matter how you slice it, Boston won in spite of Baynes, not because of Baynes.  He was awful in that series because he can't guard Embiid.  Not at all.

This is why you have to actually watch the games, Stevens put Baynes on Embiid, Baynes very much limited Embiid's damage and made him gassed, but he is still their biggest star weapon so of course Baynes will be minus and Embiid plus, if you remove Baynes we will be blew out during that duration of time, thats why Brad keep playing Baynes

Of course I watched the games.  That is why I knew Baynes was not effective guarding Embiid.  The numbers actually bear that out.  Baynes can't guard Embiid and Boston was significantly worse in that series when Baynes was on the floor then when he was out.

[gouki88]

Against Toronto, sure absolutely.  Baynes makes a lot of sense against that lineup going against Jonas while Horford takes on Ibaka.  Against Philadelphia, nope, Baynes has no real shot at guarding Embiid over the long haul and Tatum would do fine on Saric. 

So, sure a few matchups (and it is a few) it makes sense to start Baynes, but against most teams, Tatum will be the better start and better fit.

Someone didn't watch round 2 of the playoffs.

23/14/3.6, man Embiid sure was shut down.

How about these +- numbers.

Game 1 - Baynes -1 in 29 minutes, Boston +17 in the other 19 minutes
Game 2 - Baynes -16 in 21 minutes, Boston +21 in the other 27 minutes
Game 3 - Baynes -8 in 23 minutes, Boston +11 in the other 25 minutes
Game 4 - Baynes -9 in 19 minutes, Boston -2 in the other 29 minutes
Game 5 - Baynes -6 in 25 minutes, Boston +8 in the other 23 minutes

Embiid btw had the best +- of the Sixers starters (Redick was near him, no one else was close). 

No matter how you slice it, Boston won in spite of Baynes, not because of Baynes.  He was awful in that series because he can't guard Embiid.  Not at all.

This is why you have to actually watch the games, Stevens put Baynes on Embiid, Baynes very much limited Embiid's damage and made him gassed, but he is still their biggest star weapon so of course Baynes will be minus and Embiid plus, if you remove Baynes we will be blew out during that duration of time, thats why Brad keep playing Baynes

Of course I watched the games.  That is why I knew Baynes was not effective guarding Embiid.  The numbers actually bear that out.  Baynes can't guard Embiid and Boston was significantly worse in that series when Baynes was on the floor then when he was out.

I'll take a contrarian for $500 Alex

[Chris22]

I agree. Bring Hayward off the bench.

Although Hayward's wife may come after Brad.

[Moranis]

I agree. Bring Hayward off the bench.

Although Hayward's wife may come after Brad.

Hayward is Boston's best player, there is no way he comes off the bench if he is healthy.  In the games against teams that have a Drummond/Griffin like big rotation, Tatum would be on the bench with Baynes starting.  So it would be Baynes, Horford, Hayward, Brown, Irving.