Jabari Bird arrested

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.

Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.

I agree.  If true, what Bird did was legit psycho and he absolutely belongs in jail.  Whether or not, he's mentally ill, what he allegedly did was so sick & messed up, the mental health aspect of it shouldn't matter.

Unless he pulls off some convoluted twinkie defense, he's going to be in jail for quite some time.  Rightfully so.  And his NBA career is absolutely over.

The legal system differentiates between the two though. If he is legitimately mentally ill, then he gets sent to a psychiatric treatment facility instead of prison.

I understand that but I really don't think the case of Jabari Bird, given the alleged circumstances (if true) come to light , is where people should be using mental health as an excuse, IMO.

That's what I was getting at there.

We have a new fact today (at least, it's new to me). According to the front page of celticsblog, Bird is also hospitalized. It doesn't say why.

I agree with what I take to be your point - I would be surprised if he has the kind of mental illness that would get him out of a criminal punishment. That would be something like paranoid delusions, and he was functioning at too high a level. But still, if he's in the hospital why is that? Does anybody know?

Yeah, it's not new, it's mentioned a few times in the thread already. It's also on this page. I don't remember the OP and don't want to look back but I'm fairly certain it was mentioned there too.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

SEE YA JABARI

WE HARDLY KNEW YE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hwangjini_1]

guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

[JHTruth]

guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Heck philosophers have been discussing whether Free Will was in illusion since before Christ.

[hpantazo]

guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Do you mean jurors? Because voters don't decide the legal system or specific legal cases

[JHTruth]

guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Do you mean jurors? Because voters don't decide the legal system.

Um bro come on. Voters elect the legislators who write and pass the laws. The judiciary merely applies the law. Maybe watch some Schoolhouse rock?

Why do you think candidates attack each other as "soft on crime"?

[hpantazo]

guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Do you mean jurors? Because voters don't decide the legal system.

Um bro come on. Voters elect the legislators who write and pass the laws. The judiciary merely applies the law. Maybe watch some Schoolhouse rock?

It takes decades to change these laws, that's not the way it works.

[JHTruth]

guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Do you mean jurors? Because voters don't decide the legal system.

Um bro come on. Voters elect the legislators who write and pass the laws. The judiciary merely applies the law. Maybe watch some Schoolhouse rock?

It takes decades to change these laws, that's not the way it works.

SO you believe in activist judges who legislate from the bench, got it. Again, leftist strategy since at least the 60's.

[Moranis]

I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.

Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.

what if she was the instigator?  what if she was the main aggressor?

These are almost always complicated situations.  It is better to just let things play out before making grandiose statements about things you know nothing about.

Not sure how you can be the main aggressor if you're the one being kidnapped & borderline tortured.

based on her words.  May very well be true, but as we saw from Nick Diaz (the link in this thread) those type of allegations aren't always true.

[hpantazo]

guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Do you mean jurors? Because voters don't decide the legal system.

Um bro come on. Voters elect the legislators who write and pass the laws. The judiciary merely applies the law. Maybe watch some Schoolhouse rock?

It takes decades to change these laws, that's not the way it works.

SO you believe in activist judges who legislate from the bench, got it. Again, leftist strategy since at least the 60's.

I’m not sure why you’re attacking me and making assumptions on what I believe in. I just asked for clarification on what you were trying to say, and pointed out that despite what anyone believes in, things don’t work that way. The possibility of Bird pleading insanity and going to a psychiatric facility is a legitimate possibility under our current system

Is that an excuse for him? I don’t know, because we don’t know exactly what happened

[hpantazo]

I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.

Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.

what if she was the instigator?  what if she was the main aggressor?

These are almost always complicated situations.  It is better to just let things play out before making grandiose statements about things you know nothing about.

Not sure how you can be the main aggressor if you're the one being kidnapped & borderline tortured.

based on her words.  May very well be true, but as we saw from Nick Diaz (the link in this thread) those type of allegations aren't always true.

You’re assuming there were no other witnesses. We don’t know enough to make that assumption

[hwangjini_1]

guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Heck philosophers have been discussing whether Free Will was in illusion since before Christ.

you are really missing the boat is you think this is all a political agenda. this debate with the field of psychology has been going on in many countries for many years. the debate is not some sort of simply "them/us" political division rooted in the US. that is much too simple a rendering of the study of the human mind.

really, please read the book and you will understand all this much better than you do now.

it is not a question of "free will" as often taught in the US. it is about the human condition and the definition of humanity itself.

[hwangjini_1]

guys, unless you are heavily educated in mental illnesses and their treatment, it might be best to reframe from making definitive judgements about them and how they play out with the law.

i really recommend this book just to get folks started in how complex and counter-intuitive our brains create decisions that we make. it is actually a fun read, filled with interesting stories, and turns on their head most common narratives on individual responsibility and committing crime.

for the lawyers in our audience, this will challenge one fundamental basis of how law in the US views criminal actions.

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain

https://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928

It's nothing new man. The Left has been trying to make even minor mental illness an umbrella defense for all crimes since at least the 60's. It has never really stuck with voters.

Do you mean jurors? Because voters don't decide the legal system.

Um bro come on. Voters elect the legislators who write and pass the laws. The judiciary merely applies the law. Maybe watch some Schoolhouse rock?

It takes decades to change these laws, that's not the way it works.

SO you believe in activist judges who legislate from the bench, got it. Again, leftist strategy since at least the 60's.

I’m not sure why you’re attacking me and making assumptions on what I believe in. I just asked for clarification on what you were trying to say, and pointed out that despite what anyone believes in, things don’t work that way. The possibility of Bird pleading insanity and going to a psychiatric facility is a legitimate possibility under our current system

Is that an excuse for him? I don’t know, because we don’t know exactly what happened

jht, it seems, has a one-size-fits-all approach to the complexities of life.

[Sophomore]

I've heard its bad.  Like real bad. 

He's done.

The woman ended up IN THE HOSPITAL people. We could be talking about War Machine here. And people are talking about mental health like he had a bad day or something.

Well the two things are not mutually exclusive.

He could be mentally ill, and the woman could have been very badly injured from what he did to her.

And who cares if he is mentally ill in that case? He's headed to jail, possibly prison, and rightfully so.

I agree.  If true, what Bird did was legit psycho and he absolutely belongs in jail.  Whether or not, he's mentally ill, what he allegedly did was so sick & messed up, the mental health aspect of it shouldn't matter.

Unless he pulls off some convoluted twinkie defense, he's going to be in jail for quite some time.  Rightfully so.  And his NBA career is absolutely over.

The legal system differentiates between the two though. If he is legitimately mentally ill, then he gets sent to a psychiatric treatment facility instead of prison.

I understand that but I really don't think the case of Jabari Bird, given the alleged circumstances (if true) come to light , is where people should be using mental health as an excuse, IMO.

That's what I was getting at there.

We have a new fact today (at least, it's new to me). According to the front page of celticsblog, Bird is also hospitalized. It doesn't say why.

I agree with what I take to be your point - I would be surprised if he has the kind of mental illness that would get him out of a criminal punishment. That would be something like paranoid delusions, and he was functioning at too high a level. But still, if he's in the hospital why is that? Does anybody know?

Yeah, it's not new, it's mentioned a few times in the thread already. It's also on this page. I don't remember the OP and don't want to look back but I'm fairly certain it was mentioned there too.

It's true it was mentioned upthread, but I was responding to this set of posts because they didn't seem to take it into account.

Some people are emphasizing that if he committed the crime and knew right from wrong he has to be punished. I am on board with that. At the same time, I don't agree that we already know all the circumstances and I don't agree that they're irrelevant. Too easy to try and score political points instead of looking at the people and the situation.

[Donoghus]

Let's get off the political tangent please.  This thread is in danger of going off the rails.  Get back on topic.