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Would you be willing to include Jaylen Brown in any trade for KAT?

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26 (34.7%)
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Author Topic: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns  (Read 9555 times)

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Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2018, 01:40:58 PM »

Online Moranis

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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career.  He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball.  His shooting is incredible.  He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer.  His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is).  Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown.  Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better.  Why?  Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year.  That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season.  The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2).  That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs),  Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.

On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year.  The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly.  The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11).  12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed.  Comparing teams like that is just silly. 

And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets.  He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series.  The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets.  That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.

Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.

I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible.  13 points on 18 shots.  -11 in a game the C's lost by 8.  Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game. 

Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes).  Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever.  Games 3-5 were much better.  18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots).  Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better. 

Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2018, 01:48:37 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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i guess yes straight up

bigs are tuff

watching embiid and  CAt  go at it would be great stuff

give em short shorts and it could pass for  early 80's ball

Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2018, 02:21:19 PM »

Offline positivitize

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No.

We hold on to JB at (almost) all costs. I'd trade him 1 for 1 for Davis, but JB's attitude and potential is too extreme to trade for someone like KAT (overrated, sub-par defender).
My biases, in order of fervor:
Pro:
Smart, Brown, Baynes, Irving, Tatum, Horford, Morris, Sleepy Williams

Anti:
Jabari Bird, Rozier, Yabu, Semi, Theis, Hayward

Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2018, 02:45:00 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career.  He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball.  His shooting is incredible.  He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer.  His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is).  Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown.  Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better.  Why?  Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year.  That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season.  The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2).  That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs),  Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.

On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year.  The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly.  The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11).  12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed.  Comparing teams like that is just silly. 

And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets.  He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series.  The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets.  That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.

Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.

I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible.  13 points on 18 shots.  -11 in a game the C's lost by 8.  Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game. 

Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes).  Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever.  Games 3-5 were much better.  18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots).  Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better. 
Brown was not the only player laying bricks that game.  You're coming across as though the failure to win that game was all on him which it was not.  C's got that far into the playoffs thanks to Brown having some stellar games which are being ignored in your commentary.

Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2018, 03:01:25 PM »

Offline Diggles

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This is hard....   But the odds say never give a big for a small.   

He could be a potential Al replacement.   Since we have more swings and ball handlers I'd would not be mad if we made this trade.     I would have a hard time doing it, but it balances the talent on our team.   

Fast forward three years

Terry
Smart
Hayward
Tatum
Kat

Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2018, 03:18:43 PM »

Online Moranis

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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career.  He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball.  His shooting is incredible.  He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer.  His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is).  Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown.  Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better.  Why?  Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year.  That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season.  The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2).  That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs),  Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.

On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year.  The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly.  The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11).  12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed.  Comparing teams like that is just silly. 

And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets.  He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series.  The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets.  That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.

Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.

I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible.  13 points on 18 shots.  -11 in a game the C's lost by 8.  Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game. 

Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes).  Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever.  Games 3-5 were much better.  18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots).  Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better. 
Brown was not the only player laying bricks that game.  You're coming across as though the failure to win that game was all on him which it was not.  C's got that far into the playoffs thanks to Brown having some stellar games which are being ignored in your commentary.
No I was commenting on the toughness and competitiveness part of his statement and pointed out, correctly, that when Boston needed Brown the most in the biggest game of the year, he was awful.  He certainly wasn't the only awful player in that game, but he was in fact awful.  Where was Brown's toughness and competitiveness in that game?  I mean he used 2 bad playoff games against Towns, why isn't it also fair to use bad games against Brown?  That is why his argument is silly.  He based it on a very small sample size against vastly different competition.

At the end of the day, Towns had a top 10 or 15 season in the league in his 3rd year at the age of 22.  Brown has one less year, but he was no where near a top 15 player in the league and Towns had a significantly better 2nd year than Brown did as well (so it is reasonably to assume that Brown's 3rd year won't be as good as Towns' 3rd year).

Brown has a chance to be a very good, borderline great, player, in a very similar mold to that of Paul Pierce.  Towns, though, has a chance to be a special player.  A top 3 player in the league type player.  An all time great offensive player that could be one of the greatest all around offensive players ever.  He is just on a different tier than Brown is.   

Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2018, 03:31:49 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career.  He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball.  His shooting is incredible.  He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer.  His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is).  Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown.  Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better.  Why?  Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year.  That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season.  The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2).  That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs),  Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.

On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year.  The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly.  The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11).  12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed.  Comparing teams like that is just silly. 

And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets.  He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series.  The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets.  That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.

Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.

I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible.  13 points on 18 shots.  -11 in a game the C's lost by 8.  Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game. 

Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes).  Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever.  Games 3-5 were much better.  18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots).  Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better. 
Brown was not the only player laying bricks that game.  You're coming across as though the failure to win that game was all on him which it was not.  C's got that far into the playoffs thanks to Brown having some stellar games which are being ignored in your commentary.
No I was commenting on the toughness and competitiveness part of his statement and pointed out, correctly, that when Boston needed Brown the most in the biggest game of the year, he was awful.  He certainly wasn't the only awful player in that game, but he was in fact awful.  Where was Brown's toughness and competitiveness in that game?  I mean he used 2 bad playoff games against Towns, why isn't it also fair to use bad games against Brown?  That is why his argument is silly.  He based it on a very small sample size against vastly different competition.

At the end of the day, Towns had a top 10 or 15 season in the league in his 3rd year at the age of 22.  Brown has one less year, but he was no where near a top 15 player in the league and Towns had a significantly better 2nd year than Brown did as well (so it is reasonably to assume that Brown's 3rd year won't be as good as Towns' 3rd year).

Brown has a chance to be a very good, borderline great, player, in a very similar mold to that of Paul Pierce.  Towns, though, has a chance to be a special player.  A top 3 player in the league type player.  An all time great offensive player that could be one of the greatest all around offensive players ever.  He is just on a different tier than Brown is.   



 Boom! That's a huge TP. For telling it like it is Moranis

Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2018, 03:34:58 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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This is hard....   But the odds say never give a big for a small.   

He could be a potential Al replacement.   Since we have more swings and ball handlers I'd would not be mad if we made this trade.     I would have a hard time doing it, but it balances the talent on our team.   

Fast forward three years

Terry
Smart
Hayward
Tatum
Kat


 You don't have to fast forward. It makes us better right now.

Towns
Horford
Hayward
Tatum
Irving

Baynes
Morris
Semi
Smart
Rozier


Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2018, 04:35:31 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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This is hard....   But the odds say never give a big for a small.   

He could be a potential Al replacement.   Since we have more swings and ball handlers I'd would not be mad if we made this trade.     I would have a hard time doing it, but it balances the talent on our team.   

Fast forward three years

Terry
Smart
Hayward
Tatum
Kat


 You don't have to fast forward. It makes us better right now.

Towns
Horford
Hayward
Tatum
Irving

Baynes
Morris
Semi
Smart
Rozier


A starting lineup that includes Towns and Irving would get 1-5 pick n rolled to death by all the good teams throughout the regular season and mercilessly in the playoffs.  Houston exploited Towns on virtually every possession in the series just as many other of the best teams would have.  It is next to impossible to win 4 games in a series when your defense is giving up super high quality scoring opportunities, your only chance to win games are shootouts and poor shooting nights by your opposition. 

I can't stress enough how big of a NO Towns is.  People mistake his offensive production and rebounding for winning basketball and it is just not true.  A poor defensive center at every level (perimeter, pick n roll, help and at the rim) is a death sentence against the better teams that have the personnel to exploit him.

Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2018, 05:55:47 PM »

Online Sophomore

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This is hard....   But the odds say never give a big for a small.   

He could be a potential Al replacement.   Since we have more swings and ball handlers I'd would not be mad if we made this trade.     I would have a hard time doing it, but it balances the talent on our team.   

Fast forward three years

Terry
Smart
Hayward
Tatum
Kat


 You don't have to fast forward. It makes us better right now.

Towns
Horford
Hayward
Tatum
Irving

Baynes
Morris
Semi
Smart
Rozier


A starting lineup that includes Towns and Irving would get 1-5 pick n rolled to death by all the good teams throughout the regular season and mercilessly in the playoffs.  Houston exploited Towns on virtually every possession in the series just as many other of the best teams would have.  It is next to impossible to win 4 games in a series when your defense is giving up super high quality scoring opportunities, your only chance to win games are shootouts and poor shooting nights by your opposition. 

I can't stress enough how big of a NO Towns is.  People mistake his offensive production and rebounding for winning basketball and it is just not true.  A poor defensive center at every level (perimeter, pick n roll, help and at the rim) is a death sentence against the better teams that have the personnel to exploit him.

I go back and forth but this is basically where I come out. Maybe I pick Towns before Brown if Iím starting a team from scratch, maybe. But for this Celtics team I donít see it. Brown has all-NBA potential on defense, and heís a superb complement to Kyrie at the 2, capable of defending 1-3, and even some 4s when heís switches. Townsí scoring is nice, but given our other starters do we need that as much as the D? Iím ready to count on Kyrie, Tatum, and Hayward to get the toughest buckets at a very high level and I love the way Brown shores up the D while sill giving us  potent offensive weapons. Especially if we are targeting GSW and Houston Brown seems like a very useful player to hang onto.

Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2018, 09:41:20 AM »

Online td450

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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career.  He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball.  His shooting is incredible.  He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer.  His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is).  Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown.  Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better.  Why?  Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year.  That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season.  The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2).  That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs),  Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.

On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year.  The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly.  The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11).  12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed.  Comparing teams like that is just silly. 

And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets.  He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series.  The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets.  That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.

Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.

I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible.  13 points on 18 shots.  -11 in a game the C's lost by 8.  Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game. 

Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes).  Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever.  Games 3-5 were much better.  18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots).  Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better. 
Brown was not the only player laying bricks that game.  You're coming across as though the failure to win that game was all on him which it was not.  C's got that far into the playoffs thanks to Brown having some stellar games which are being ignored in your commentary.
No I was commenting on the toughness and competitiveness part of his statement and pointed out, correctly, that when Boston needed Brown the most in the biggest game of the year, he was awful.  He certainly wasn't the only awful player in that game, but he was in fact awful.  Where was Brown's toughness and competitiveness in that game?  I mean he used 2 bad playoff games against Towns, why isn't it also fair to use bad games against Brown?  That is why his argument is silly.  He based it on a very small sample size against vastly different competition.

At the end of the day, Towns had a top 10 or 15 season in the league in his 3rd year at the age of 22.  Brown has one less year, but he was no where near a top 15 player in the league and Towns had a significantly better 2nd year than Brown did as well (so it is reasonably to assume that Brown's 3rd year won't be as good as Towns' 3rd year).

Brown has a chance to be a very good, borderline great, player, in a very similar mold to that of Paul Pierce.  Towns, though, has a chance to be a special player.  A top 3 player in the league type player.  An all time great offensive player that could be one of the greatest all around offensive players ever.  He is just on a different tier than Brown is.   
Had to toss another silly in there, didn't you. Lame.

Neither player has any cap on what they can become. Both players can level off at any time and both can become MVPs.

Towns has eye-popping offensive numbers. His downside is that his position is increasingly devalued in the modern game, and this is particularly stark because he is a below average defender. He does not impose himself on the game in the way you want a superstar to do. There is no getting around the fact that his awesome offensive game has not made anyone fear the Timberwolves. The alpha dog on Minnesota immediately became Jimmy Butler. No one sees Towns as his equal, despite his amazing talent.

You cite his bad games and Brown's bad game. Brown came out and tried to win. He took the 18 shots and the responsibility and they didn't go in. Towns, on the other hand, took less than 10 shots in each of the first two playoff games. He shrunk from the moment.

In traditional terms, it is obvious to prefer Towns. But the NBA has fundamentally changed. A guy like Brown, who probably will make multiple all-NBA defensive teams, is the best athlete on the team, is a leader, and has proven he has the talent to average over 20 PPG - that is not a player you give up. If we win the title, it will be because it will be overwhelming to play against 3 wings that are so big, athletic and two dimensional. The soul of this team will be the trio of Brown, Tatum and Hayward. There will be no compromise anywhere on the court.

Unless Towns changed fairly fundamentally, we'd be a team that would kill lesser teams but have big problems against GS and Houston.


Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2018, 11:26:18 AM »

Online Moranis

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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career.  He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball.  His shooting is incredible.  He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer.  His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is).  Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown.  Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better.  Why?  Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year.  That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season.  The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2).  That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs),  Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.

On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year.  The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly.  The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11).  12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed.  Comparing teams like that is just silly. 

And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets.  He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series.  The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets.  That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.

Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.

I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible.  13 points on 18 shots.  -11 in a game the C's lost by 8.  Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game. 

Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes).  Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever.  Games 3-5 were much better.  18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots).  Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better. 
Brown was not the only player laying bricks that game.  You're coming across as though the failure to win that game was all on him which it was not.  C's got that far into the playoffs thanks to Brown having some stellar games which are being ignored in your commentary.
No I was commenting on the toughness and competitiveness part of his statement and pointed out, correctly, that when Boston needed Brown the most in the biggest game of the year, he was awful.  He certainly wasn't the only awful player in that game, but he was in fact awful.  Where was Brown's toughness and competitiveness in that game?  I mean he used 2 bad playoff games against Towns, why isn't it also fair to use bad games against Brown?  That is why his argument is silly.  He based it on a very small sample size against vastly different competition.

At the end of the day, Towns had a top 10 or 15 season in the league in his 3rd year at the age of 22.  Brown has one less year, but he was no where near a top 15 player in the league and Towns had a significantly better 2nd year than Brown did as well (so it is reasonably to assume that Brown's 3rd year won't be as good as Towns' 3rd year).

Brown has a chance to be a very good, borderline great, player, in a very similar mold to that of Paul Pierce.  Towns, though, has a chance to be a special player.  A top 3 player in the league type player.  An all time great offensive player that could be one of the greatest all around offensive players ever.  He is just on a different tier than Brown is.   
Had to toss another silly in there, didn't you. Lame.

Neither player has any cap on what they can become. Both players can level off at any time and both can become MVPs.

Towns has eye-popping offensive numbers. His downside is that his position is increasingly devalued in the modern game, and this is particularly stark because he is a below average defender. He does not impose himself on the game in the way you want a superstar to do. There is no getting around the fact that his awesome offensive game has not made anyone fear the Timberwolves. The alpha dog on Minnesota immediately became Jimmy Butler. No one sees Towns as his equal, despite his amazing talent.

You cite his bad games and Brown's bad game. Brown came out and tried to win. He took the 18 shots and the responsibility and they didn't go in. Towns, on the other hand, took less than 10 shots in each of the first two playoff games. He shrunk from the moment.

In traditional terms, it is obvious to prefer Towns. But the NBA has fundamentally changed. A guy like Brown, who probably will make multiple all-NBA defensive teams, is the best athlete on the team, is a leader, and has proven he has the talent to average over 20 PPG - that is not a player you give up. If we win the title, it will be because it will be overwhelming to play against 3 wings that are so big, athletic and two dimensional. The soul of this team will be the trio of Brown, Tatum and Hayward. There will be no compromise anywhere on the court.

Unless Towns changed fairly fundamentally, we'd be a team that would kill lesser teams but have big problems against GS and Houston.
His 9 shots in game 2 were in under 24 minutes.  He only played 24 minutes because they got whooped because they played the best team in basketball.  Let's not pretend he wasn't shooting at his normal clip, because he absolutely was.  His first playoff game ever he didn't shoot many or well.  No question about that.  He didn't shoot well in his 2nd game, but was shooting at his normal rate.  His final 3 playoff games were all pretty darn good though.  And I wouldn't exactly be bragging about a 5 of 18 performance.  Maybe if Brown shot less, Boston wins that game.  Brown isn't Irving or Carmelo or someone that can just get hot and take over offensively.  That isn't his game.  He was off and he didn't have the sense to stop shooting the ball (same with Smart and Rozier, but no one ever expects either of them to play with sense).  Brown faded and failed in the biggest game of the year.  He didn't step up in the moment.  This was not a guy in his first playoff game ever.  This was not a guy that hadn't been in that situation.  He just failed.  Period.

And for the record, Towns outplayed Butler in the Houston series.  He was Minnesota's best and most consistent player overall.  Even in game 2, Towns outperformed Butler.

Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2018, 01:33:49 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career.  He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball.  His shooting is incredible.  He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer.  His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is).  Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown.  Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better.  Why?  Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year.  That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season.  The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2).  That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs),  Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.

On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year.  The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly.  The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11).  12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed.  Comparing teams like that is just silly. 

And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets.  He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series.  The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets.  That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.

Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.

I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible.  13 points on 18 shots.  -11 in a game the C's lost by 8.  Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game. 

Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes).  Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever.  Games 3-5 were much better.  18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots).  Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better. 
Brown was not the only player laying bricks that game.  You're coming across as though the failure to win that game was all on him which it was not.  C's got that far into the playoffs thanks to Brown having some stellar games which are being ignored in your commentary.
No I was commenting on the toughness and competitiveness part of his statement and pointed out, correctly, that when Boston needed Brown the most in the biggest game of the year, he was awful.  He certainly wasn't the only awful player in that game, but he was in fact awful.  Where was Brown's toughness and competitiveness in that game?  I mean he used 2 bad playoff games against Towns, why isn't it also fair to use bad games against Brown?  That is why his argument is silly.  He based it on a very small sample size against vastly different competition.

At the end of the day, Towns had a top 10 or 15 season in the league in his 3rd year at the age of 22.  Brown has one less year, but he was no where near a top 15 player in the league and Towns had a significantly better 2nd year than Brown did as well (so it is reasonably to assume that Brown's 3rd year won't be as good as Towns' 3rd year).

Brown has a chance to be a very good, borderline great, player, in a very similar mold to that of Paul Pierce.  Towns, though, has a chance to be a special player.  A top 3 player in the league type player.  An all time great offensive player that could be one of the greatest all around offensive players ever.  He is just on a different tier than Brown is.   
Had to toss another silly in there, didn't you. Lame.

Neither player has any cap on what they can become. Both players can level off at any time and both can become MVPs.

Towns has eye-popping offensive numbers. His downside is that his position is increasingly devalued in the modern game, and this is particularly stark because he is a below average defender. He does not impose himself on the game in the way you want a superstar to do. There is no getting around the fact that his awesome offensive game has not made anyone fear the Timberwolves. The alpha dog on Minnesota immediately became Jimmy Butler. No one sees Towns as his equal, despite his amazing talent.

You cite his bad games and Brown's bad game. Brown came out and tried to win. He took the 18 shots and the responsibility and they didn't go in. Towns, on the other hand, took less than 10 shots in each of the first two playoff games. He shrunk from the moment.

In traditional terms, it is obvious to prefer Towns. But the NBA has fundamentally changed. A guy like Brown, who probably will make multiple all-NBA defensive teams, is the best athlete on the team, is a leader, and has proven he has the talent to average over 20 PPG - that is not a player you give up. If we win the title, it will be because it will be overwhelming to play against 3 wings that are so big, athletic and two dimensional. The soul of this team will be the trio of Brown, Tatum and Hayward. There will be no compromise anywhere on the court.

Unless Towns changed fairly fundamentally, we'd be a team that would kill lesser teams but have big problems against GS and Houston.
His 9 shots in game 2 were in under 24 minutes.  He only played 24 minutes because they got whooped because they played the best team in basketball.  Let's not pretend he wasn't shooting at his normal clip, because he absolutely was.  His first playoff game ever he didn't shoot many or well.  No question about that.  He didn't shoot well in his 2nd game, but was shooting at his normal rate.  His final 3 playoff games were all pretty darn good though.  And I wouldn't exactly be bragging about a 5 of 18 performance.  Maybe if Brown shot less, Boston wins that game.  Brown isn't Irving or Carmelo or someone that can just get hot and take over offensively.  That isn't his game.  He was off and he didn't have the sense to stop shooting the ball (same with Smart and Rozier, but no one ever expects either of them to play with sense).  Brown faded and failed in the biggest game of the year.  He didn't step up in the moment.  This was not a guy in his first playoff game ever.  This was not a guy that hadn't been in that situation.  He just failed.  Period.

And for the record, Towns outplayed Butler in the Houston series.  He was Minnesota's best and most consistent player overall.  Even in game 2, Towns outperformed Butler.

So is laying 2 eggs in 5 games (Towns) the same thing as laying 1 egg in 19 (Brown) numerically, Moranis?
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Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2018, 04:20:41 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Re: Trade idea: Jaylen Brown for Karl-Anthony Towns
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2018, 05:20:06 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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An NBA beat writer was saying on the radio that Towns is more of a stat guy than a hustle guy, and that he "isn't the high-character guy people think."

Gee, wonder why Butler wants out so bad?

Dude is the poster boy for empty stats. I doubt we win a title with him getting heavy minutes. Some guys just don't get it. Do not want.

 

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