Package Morris and our First to Move Up

[chilidawg]

I dont see a value in Morris being moved unless you believe Tatum will be strong enough to  take on more physical players when Hayward doesnt have the assignment. I say its worth keeping him.

This.  Morris is more of a PF than any of Tatum, Brown, or Hayward.  That makes him valuable in developing a versatile roster.

[GreenShooter]

Even if he walks after next season it will be invaluable to have a healthy Morris on this team. We are not deep or experienced at what he brings to the team. He'll get plenty (or enough) of minutes. He just wants to start and keep his value high heading into FA. If he wants to win then he'll have to accept his role and not be a problem once the season starts. I say keep him. You won't get enough value for him, trading him for a pick, unless he's a salary dump.

[Somebody]

I'd keep Morris for cheap bench depth and part ways with him amiably after winning banner 18.

[colincb]

Morris and 27 is a start of a salary dump. Add Yabu and Nader and you trade it into BKN cap space.

Harsh views on Morris and Yabusele...

Morris is gone here after 2018-19, his minutes could fall dramatically, and he's a microwave with 5 fouls. Yabusele hasn't shown much, Nader's a good G-leaguer, and the 27th pick is a developmental rotation player if you get lucky.

Use the money to re-sign Smart, Larkin, and Baynes to reasonable multi-year contracts. Sign Bird too AND stay out of luxury tax for 1 more year before a deep plunge in 2019-20. I would be surprised if the Celtics want to dip a toe into the luxury tax now and pay an extra $20+ million down the road as a repeat offender for the privilege of doing so. It is one thing to be willing to pay a heavy "repeater" luxury tax with a contender; it is another to throw money away for non-core talent.

You can sign Smart to a reasonable 4 year, $50 MM contract starting at $11.1 MM. That should satisfy both his ego and his desire to stay. Better than having him take the QO, playing under the pressure of a contract year as he did this year to his detriment, and walking after next season. If he gets a stupid offer, use the money elsewhere. Smart still has upside as a shooter since he mostly needs to improve his shot selection. He’ll never be a great finisher at the rim though.

By my reckoning, you would have 12 players signed (with Monroe leaving too) and $6 million to fill a couple of slots with vet minimums, leave some cash for a post-trade deadline buyout player looking for a ring, AND stay under the luxury tax. Signing Gibson if they like him could be one of the minimum slots and they could get some UDFA to take Bird's 2-way slot.

This would ruin all these Celticblog pick-trade threads and comparisons between wings who could go anywhere from 16 to 45. That would be the worst outcome of making these contracts make sense long-term and fit under the luxury tax.

[footey]

Morris and 27 is a start of a salary dump. Add Yabu and Nader and you trade it into BKN cap space.

Harsh views on Morris and Yabusele...

Morris is gone here after 2018-19, his minutes could fall dramatically, and he's a microwave with 5 fouls. Yabusele hasn't shown much, Nader's a good G-leaguer, and the 27th pick is a developmental rotation player if you get lucky.

Use the money to re-sign Smart, Larkin, and Baynes to reasonable multi-year contracts. Sign Bird too AND stay out of luxury tax for 1 more year before a deep plunge in 2019-20. I would be surprised if the Celtics want to dip a toe into the luxury tax now and pay an extra $20+ million down the road as a repeat offender for the privilege of doing so. It is one thing to be willing to pay a heavy "repeater" luxury tax with a contender; it is another to throw money away for non-core talent.

You can sign Smart to a reasonable 4 year, $50 MM contract starting at $11.1 MM. That should satisfy both his ego and his desire to stay. Better than having him take the QO, playing under the pressure of a contract year as he did this year to his detriment, and walking after next season. If he gets a stupid offer, use the money elsewhere. Smart still has upside as a shooter since he mostly needs to improve his shot selection. He’ll never be a great finisher at the rim though.

By my reckoning, you would have 12 players signed (with Monroe leaving too) and $6 million to fill a couple of slots with vet minimums, leave some cash for a post-trade deadline buyout player looking for a ring, AND stay under the luxury tax. Signing Gibson if they like him could be one of the minimum slots and they could get some UDFA to take Bird's 2-way slot.

This would ruin all these Celticblog pick-trade threads and comparisons between wings who could go anywhere from 16 to 45. That would be the worst outcome of making these contracts make sense long-term and fit under the luxury tax.

Well thought out proposal, but if we can trade up with Morris and our first, why not try to get a better asset with a low future hold to develop?  Also seems premature to dump Yabusele.

[footey]

Let me reiterate my strategy here:

Mitchell Robinson reportedly had an impressive workout before multiple teams in L.A.  recently, per Jonathan Givony. (Don't know if Celtics sent anyone).

ESPN has him slated to be taken by Sixers at 26.  NBADraft.Net has him being taken by Lakers (who some have reported giving him a promise) at 25. 

It should not take much for us to skip over those two.  The only other team that worries me is the Bucks, who pick 17th; they have a recent history of targeting long, athletic players (GA, TM, Henson). But they seem to have a greater need at guard, so I'm going to keep fingers crossed they don't pick Robinson.

The league has a lot of followers. Clearly the trend is to draft long, switchable guards and forwards.  Celtics have started it.  I think so many teams will be scrambling to draft those types, they will tend to let Robinson slide.

When they Zig, you Zag.

He is as gifted athletically as Anton and Bamba, in my opinion. More importantly, plays with a much better motor than either. (Was very obvious in MCD All star game a couple of summers ago). A beast on offensive boards, premier shot blocker, and finisher.  Has displayed a good handle, although that is a work in progress. 

Just worth taking a shot on this kid, given that our one deficiency is having a long term plan to replace Al Horford.  Got to start somewhere. I think you have to role the dice sometimes, especially in the middle back of the first round.

[saltlover]

Morris and 27 is a start of a salary dump. Add Yabu and Nader and you trade it into BKN cap space.

Harsh views on Morris and Yabusele...

Morris is gone here after 2018-19, his minutes could fall dramatically, and he's a microwave with 5 fouls. Yabusele hasn't shown much, Nader's a good G-leaguer, and the 27th pick is a developmental rotation player if you get lucky.

Use the money to re-sign Smart, Larkin, and Baynes to reasonable multi-year contracts. Sign Bird too AND stay out of luxury tax for 1 more year before a deep plunge in 2019-20. I would be surprised if the Celtics want to dip a toe into the luxury tax now and pay an extra $20+ million down the road as a repeat offender for the privilege of doing so. It is one thing to be willing to pay a heavy "repeater" luxury tax with a contender; it is another to throw money away for non-core talent.

You can sign Smart to a reasonable 4 year, $50 MM contract starting at $11.1 MM. That should satisfy both his ego and his desire to stay. Better than having him take the QO, playing under the pressure of a contract year as he did this year to his detriment, and walking after next season. If he gets a stupid offer, use the money elsewhere. Smart still has upside as a shooter since he mostly needs to improve his shot selection. He’ll never be a great finisher at the rim though.

By my reckoning, you would have 12 players signed (with Monroe leaving too) and $6 million to fill a couple of slots with vet minimums, leave some cash for a post-trade deadline buyout player looking for a ring, AND stay under the luxury tax. Signing Gibson if they like him could be one of the minimum slots and they could get some UDFA to take Bird's 2-way slot.

This would ruin all these Celticblog pick-trade threads and comparisons between wings who could go anywhere from 16 to 45. That would be the worst outcome of making these contracts make sense long-term and fit under the luxury tax.

I’ll go after the low-hanging fruit first.  I like Larkin, but there is zero need to offer him a multi-year deal.  There are plenty of guards who can do what he did who will also be available for the minimum, and it’s not even clear that we need one of them.

Anyway, as our projection presently stands, with no moves, the Celtics could:

Make their pick
Sign Bird
Sign Smart to a deal starting at up to $13 million

That’s a 14-man roster.  They don’t need to sign player 15, and they quite possibly won’t — it’s better for a team flirting with the tax to hold open that spot for the buyout period, as this enables them to get someone on a pro-rated contract (about 1/3 the cap/tax hit, maybe less) and let’s them fill the roster spot with a player who actually fills the role that the Celtics know they need in February, and not think they might need in July.  If there’s a real need at multiple positions, Nader’s contract is cheaper to move at the deadline (it’s a cash-only cost, and not that much since he’ll be done with 2/3 of his contract) and then you have enough to sign two players (at more than the minimum since you still have the majority of the MLE).

And yes, I know the above has excluded Baynes.  I ultimately think that’s what’s going to happen, because I think the order of priorities this summer is Smart and then Baynes, and expect Baynes to be off the market by the time Smart’s situation is finalized.  However, if you’re able to use Morris, as this thread suggests, to move up a couple of spots when paired with #27, say to Indiana at #23, you would now have created the salary space to sign Baynes to a deal with his non-Bird rights, without needing to actually full-on dump 3 players and a pick.  To me, that seems optimal to the alternative of giving up on Yabusele at this point in his career.  It implies that Morris’ contract has a small amount of positive value to certain teams, but I don’t think that unreasonable either.  And if you do, and think that clearing out $8 million in contracts belonging to a rookie 1st round pick and a productive reserve on an expiring at below MLE cost is worth using a first to get rid of, then yes, I think you’re being very harsh to Morris and Yabusele.

[Fafnir]

I don't think giving up Morris moves us up more than a couple of slots. Not into the teens.

[footey]

I don't think giving up Morris moves us up more than a couple of slots. Not into the teens.

Might be enough, given the added benefits as pointed out by SL (cap room to sign Baynes)(although he would want to be able to climb higher than that).

[wdleehi]

Morris is better next year then anyone the Celtics pick up in the high 20s.   


Therefor, I would be against such a move unless it was for cap room purposes.


I still think the first round pick ends up a stash a player or used in a trade to remove Nader and get a future 1st. 

[saltlover]

I don't think giving up Morris moves us up more than a couple of slots. Not into the teens.

Might be enough, given the added benefits as pointed out by SL (cap room to sign Baynes)(although he would want to be able to climb higher than that).

Yes, I would want to move higher, although that’s because I think the player I want doesn’t last past 20 (and might not make it there).  If I knew that Baynes would for sure re-sign for his non-Bird rights, I’d be much more inclined to make the deal.

[Fafnir]

I don't think giving up Morris moves us up more than a couple of slots. Not into the teens.

Might be enough, given the added benefits as pointed out by SL (cap room to sign Baynes)(although he would want to be able to climb higher than that).

We'd have to take money back unless the other team was under the salary cap. I don't see the Bulls/76ers/Lakers/Pacers getting rid of $5 million of cap room before the beginning of FA.

So we're saving around 2.15 million? Minus the difference in salary of the now somewhat higher slot 1st round pick.

Chicago, Philadelphia, Lakers, Blazer, Pacers, Jazz, Minnesota do any of them want Morris enough to move down? I don't see any interest from those teams in moving down for Morris. Some might take him for someone they don't play to save around that 2 million for the C's but not sacrificing draft slots for it.

[saltlover]

I don't think giving up Morris moves us up more than a couple of slots. Not into the teens.

Might be enough, given the added benefits as pointed out by SL (cap room to sign Baynes)(although he would want to be able to climb higher than that).

We'd have to take money back unless the other team was under the salary cap. I don't see the Bulls/76ers/Lakers/Pacers getting rid of $5 million of cap room before the beginning of FA.

So we're saving around 2.15 million? Minus the difference in salary of the now somewhat higher slot 1st round pick.

Chicago, Philadelphia, Lakers, Blazer, Pacers, Jazz, Minnesota do any of them want Morris enough to move down? I don't see any interest from those teams in moving down for Morris. Some might take him for someone they don't play to save around that 2 million for the C's but not sacrificing draft slots for it.

Early in the thread I list four teams in the 20s who are playoff-level and who could feasibly send us back no salary.

[Fafnir]

I don't think giving up Morris moves us up more than a couple of slots. Not into the teens.

Might be enough, given the added benefits as pointed out by SL (cap room to sign Baynes)(although he would want to be able to climb higher than that).

We'd have to take money back unless the other team was under the salary cap. I don't see the Bulls/76ers/Lakers/Pacers getting rid of $5 million of cap room before the beginning of FA.

So we're saving around 2.15 million? Minus the difference in salary of the now somewhat higher slot 1st round pick.

Chicago, Philadelphia, Lakers, Blazer, Pacers, Jazz, Minnesota do any of them want Morris enough to move down? I don't see any interest from those teams in moving down for Morris. Some might take him for someone they don't play to save around that 2 million for the C's but not sacrificing draft slots for it.

Early in the thread I list four teams in the 20s who are playoff-level and who could feasibly send us back no salary.

Only the Jazz would consider it. Pacers aren't spending space till after FA, Minnesota doesn't have any room (three teamer as you posit is unlikely), and the Blazers are up against the Tax in a bad way so they aren't adding salary for morris imo.

Thabo's guarantee date is 7/1/2018 so Jazz would be it. Honestly though I don't see him fitting with that team myself. So I guess the market would be the Jazz to move down 6 slots for Morris?

I guess that makes some sense if they hate everyone at 21.

[Fafnir]

Morris is better next year then anyone the Celtics pick up in the high 20s.   


Therefor, I would be against such a move unless it was for cap room purposes.


I still think the first round pick ends up a stash a player or used in a trade to remove Nader and get a future 1st.

Nader's only guaranteed 450k I believe. I could see our pick moved just to roll it into the future even beyond a stash without dumping anyone.

In the end I don't think the C's will be looking to dump salary until we have a better idea what Smart's contract will look like.