Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]

[jambr380]

Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

Those guys are legit two-way players who easily could start and be at least the 3rd best player on the majority of teams in the league. Smart is awesome at what he does, but he is still kind-of a niche player. I would love to keep him, but not at those numbers (Gordon's $13M/yr isn't killer, though).

Those numbers aren't relevant to today. The salary cap is nearly double what it was when Tony Allen's rookie contract ended in 2010.

Percent of the salary cap would be more relevant

True, but max-level players are still eating up most of the salary. As we are seeing, paying mid-tier players relatively big money isn't working. The new model seems to be acquiring as many max-level players as possible and filling the rest of the roster with rookie scale, vet min, exception contract guys. While Smart may technically be worth $15M/yr, it doesn't seems to be what teams are trying to do.

[Tr1boy]

I am starting to wonder why we haven't signed Marcus yet. I am not sure of timing of signings and how that works but is it possible he is not signed yet because he is on the table to the Spurs in a Kawhi deal (sign and trade) but the numbers and deal is not final until they can get all of the numbers and assets to work?

look at his stats.... shooting under 40 percent (from the beginning) and having a spot on an NBA roster, is unheard of

Remember Tony Allen/Bruce Bowen? They made 4-6 million per season max....  They shot better than 40 percent on average at least

Ainge wants to keep Smart ... but on a fair deal/avoid Wyc from paying extra fees/tax as much as possible

If rumors were true that Smart was offered a 7-8 million a season deal during last season.....  and currently the Q.... 

Sounds like Ainge doesn't want to reach out first, to offer the same numbers he has already offered. Instead Ainge (who is on the driver seat right now, since there is no noise about a potential team signing him to an offer sheet) is waiting for Smart and reps to call him....and take the offer(s), Ainge has laid out on the table

We got cheap with Tony and it could have cost us another championship. Should have never let him go. Bad example.

Allen also never shot under 40 percent

While Wanamaker is likely no Smart on defense, I'm hearing that he is a very very good defender, that has a strong body, 6'8 wingspan.  Plus is better on the offensive end

Ainge offered something to Smart during last season....Smart balked.  Smart didn't increase production/efficiency on offense .... and on national TV spurt out something ridiculous (12-14 million demand)

I mean there is a chance that the previous offer (8 million per season) is no longer on the table

I feel bad for Smart....he definitely overshot his worth

[IDreamCeltics]

The reality is

Smart has barely improved since his rookie season (outside of rookie to vet wrinkles).  He is still shooting under 40 percent.  Self inflicting hand injury last season during a critical stretch was dumb.  After losing to the Cavs (horrible shooting night) , "back up the brinks truck" comment was the even dumber

Smart intangibles (especially on defense) is valuable. But his offense plain out stinks. 

Q offer for approx 6 million =  5 million for defense and 1 million for offense.   If the old offer is still good.... 8 million per season = 6-7 million for defense and 1 million for offense.  There is little to no hope Smart offense gets any better

Maybe what Smart should do is get a new agent....set things straight

The game (even the offensive end) is more than just shooting. His shooting may not have improved, but the rest of his game (individual defence, team defense, rebounding, passing, and posting up smaller players) have all improved greatly since his rookie year.

What should Smart have said when asked if he thought he was worth what he was asking for at the beginning of the season? "No, I don't think teams should spend money on me. They should offer the vet min at most"? No player will ever talk down their value when asked point blank about it. There's a big difference between simply answering a question and bringing up your next contract a lot/wearing custom sandals with a Brinks truck on them

Some of Smart's individual skills may have improved but his decision making hasn't evolved. 

In fact this whole episode with him being hurt and shocked that the Celtics haven't been wooing him during free-agency is a microcosm of Marcus Smart's entire problem.  He thinks of himself as a star on the court instead of a defensive specialist/role-player.  He'd be so much more valuable if he learned to stop trying to force his shot and offense. 

[Monkhouse]

The reality is

Smart has barely improved since his rookie season (outside of rookie to vet wrinkles).  He is still shooting under 40 percent.  Self inflicting hand injury last season during a critical stretch was dumb.  After losing to the Cavs (horrible shooting night) , "back up the brinks truck" comment was the even dumber

Smart intangibles (especially on defense) is valuable. But his offense plain out stinks. 

Q offer for approx 6 million =  5 million for defense and 1 million for offense.   If the old offer is still good.... 8 million per season = 6-7 million for defense and 1 million for offense.  There is little to no hope Smart offense gets any better

Maybe what Smart should do is get a new agent....set things straight

The game (even the offensive end) is more than just shooting. His shooting may not have improved, but the rest of his game (individual defence, team defense, rebounding, passing, and posting up smaller players) have all improved greatly since his rookie year.

What should Smart have said when asked if he thought he was worth what he was asking for at the beginning of the season? "No, I don't think teams should spend money on me. They should offer the vet min at most"? No player will ever talk down their value when asked point blank about it. There's a big difference between simply answering a question and bringing up your next contract a lot/wearing custom sandals with a Brinks truck on them

Some of Smart's individual skills may have improved but his decision making hasn't evolved. 

In fact this whole episode with him being hurt and shocked that the Celtics haven't been wooing him during free-agency is a microcosm of Marcus Smart's entire problem.  He thinks of himself as a star on the court instead of a defensive specialist/role-player.  He'd be so much more valuable if he learned to stop trying to force his shot and offense.

Yeah.... There is no legit sources except for one reporter who has a Boston bias..

Also Smart's passing, and decision making on that end has improved greatly... Horford can attest to that.

[BitterJim]

I think the problem a lot of Smart fans on here are having is they see bad money being thrown around to players that don't deserve it. So they think that you just overpay for a guys like Smart like the others teams have (Utah) and it doesn't matter. But the problem is it does matter! You have luxury tax issues, roster building on and on. Those other teams don't manage their cap well often, make poor moves and are always just hoping they make the playoffs. You guys want to pay our 6th, maybe 7th or 8th man depending on line ups $10-14m a year! No good team in the NBA is paying that guy 8 figures!! Players that earn that kind of money are starters. Danny is not going to overpay for a combo guard that can't shoot, he can't!

Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

No way those successful teams would ever pay bench players that much. It's not like being over the cap severely limits your ability to add yalent, and letting talent go for nothing will hurt long-term

Danny will let him walk if keeping him would cost something like $14 million, but I don't see anyone here saying to pay that (or any team that will offer him that)

I'm not sure the intention was to have those guys come off the bench when they signed those deals and when healthy both those players are better than Smart! Also I have seen people on here saying he's worth $14m a year that's what scares the hell out of me! He's a hard nose player that's nice to have on the team don't get me wrong. But when you can't shoot you can't shoot. Take the QO practice shooting all off season and see if transfers into the games and if it does he will get some good offers.

The Warriors absolutely payed that with the idea of hom coming off the bench, and Eric Gordon came off the bench for 60 of the 75 games he played the year he signed with Houston. They both were payed to be the 6th man, and we're much older when they signed.

If your only argument is "he's not worth $14 million", you won't find many people here that will disagree with you. But there's a huge gap between paying him $14 milion and giving him a multi-year deal in the $10 million per year range that most have suggested. Saying no to $14 million is a good decision, saying no to anything over the QO is not

[saltlover]

Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

Those guys are legit two-way players who easily could start and be at least the 3rd best player on the majority of teams in the league. Smart is awesome at what he does, but he is still kind-of a niche player. I would love to keep him, but not at those numbers (Gordon's $13M/yr isn't killer, though).

Those numbers aren't relevant to today. The salary cap is nearly double what it was when Tony Allen's rookie contract ended in 2010.

Percent of the salary cap would be more relevant

True, but max-level players are still eating up most of the salary. As we are seeing, paying mid-tier players relatively big money isn't working. The new model seems to be acquiring as many max-level players as possible and filling the rest of the roster with rookie scale, vet min, exception contract guys. While Smart may technically be worth $15M/yr, it doesn't seems to be what teams are trying to do.

Iggy shot 28% from 3 last year. I agree that he’s a positive impact on offense, but so is Smart despite similar poor shooting.

[BitterJim]

Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

Those guys are legit two-way players who easily could start and be at least the 3rd best player on the majority of teams in the league. Smart is awesome at what he does, but he is still kind-of a niche player. I would love to keep him, but not at those numbers (Gordon's $13M/yr isn't killer, though).

Those numbers aren't relevant to today. The salary cap is nearly double what it was when Tony Allen's rookie contract ended in 2010.

Percent of the salary cap would be more relevant

True, but max-level players are still eating up most of the salary. As we are seeing, paying mid-tier players relatively big money isn't working. The new model seems to be acquiring as many max-level players as possible and filling the rest of the roster with rookie scale, vet min, exception contract guys. While Smart may technically be worth $15M/yr, it doesn't seems to be what teams are trying to do.

The new model isn't just surrounding max players with min salary and MLE players, it's surrounding them with the best players you can. The means drafting players and keeping them when they become RFAs, too. Smart would be a part of that

[Tr1boy]

If we examine this situation,  roster, playing time, signing of Wanamaker, pay or avoid tax

What Danny might be really seeking is that somebody offers him a 1st or a couple of high 2nds for Smart

With Irving, Hayward returning.....  having Brown, Tatum, Smart, Rozier =  minutes spread thin

Wanamaker can play half the mins Smart played ... and still provide something


Examining the lineup

Starting unit A  (vs legit starting center)

Baynes
Horford
Hayward
Brown/Tatum
Irving

Staring unit B (against anybody else)

Horford
Hayward
Brown
Tatum
Irving

Regular Bench
Theis/Baynes
Morris
Rozier
Brown/Tatum
+ rotate in Irving, Horford, Hayward

Likely to get 5-7 min a night
Wanamaker

Playing min to go around is very tight

[Tr1boy]

Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

Those guys are legit two-way players who easily could start and be at least the 3rd best player on the majority of teams in the league. Smart is awesome at what he does, but he is still kind-of a niche player. I would love to keep him, but not at those numbers (Gordon's $13M/yr isn't killer, though).

Those numbers aren't relevant to today. The salary cap is nearly double what it was when Tony Allen's rookie contract ended in 2010.

Percent of the salary cap would be more relevant

True, but max-level players are still eating up most of the salary. As we are seeing, paying mid-tier players relatively big money isn't working. The new model seems to be acquiring as many max-level players as possible and filling the rest of the roster with rookie scale, vet min, exception contract guys. While Smart may technically be worth $15M/yr, it doesn't seems to be what teams are trying to do.

Iggy shot 28% from 3 last year. I agree that he’s a positive impact on offense, but so is Smart despite similar poor shooting.

Iguadala still shot 46 percent overall and had one off 3 pt shooting efficiency last season

He is still a 33-34 percent 3 pt shooting on average

[dreamgreen]

I think the problem a lot of Smart fans on here are having is they see bad money being thrown around to players that don't deserve it. So they think that you just overpay for a guys like Smart like the others teams have (Utah) and it doesn't matter. But the problem is it does matter! You have luxury tax issues, roster building on and on. Those other teams don't manage their cap well often, make poor moves and are always just hoping they make the playoffs. You guys want to pay our 6th, maybe 7th or 8th man depending on line ups $10-14m a year! No good team in the NBA is paying that guy 8 figures!! Players that earn that kind of money are starters. Danny is not going to overpay for a combo guard that can't shoot, he can't!

Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

No way those successful teams would ever pay bench players that much. It's not like being over the cap severely limits your ability to add yalent, and letting talent go for nothing will hurt long-term

Danny will let him walk if keeping him would cost something like $14 million, but I don't see anyone here saying to pay that (or any team that will offer him that)

I'm not sure the intention was to have those guys come off the bench when they signed those deals and when healthy both those players are better than Smart! Also I have seen people on here saying he's worth $14m a year that's what scares the hell out of me! He's a hard nose player that's nice to have on the team don't get me wrong. But when you can't shoot you can't shoot. Take the QO practice shooting all off season and see if transfers into the games and if it does he will get some good offers.

The Warriors absolutely payed that with the idea of hom coming off the bench, and Eric Gordon came off the bench for 60 of the 75 games he played the year he signed with Houston. They both were payed to be the 6th man, and we're much older when they signed.

If your only argument is "he's not worth $14 million", you won't find many people here that will disagree with you. But there's a huge gap between paying him $14 milion and giving him a multi-year deal in the $10 million per year range that most have suggested. Saying no to $14 million is a good decision, saying no to anything over the QO is not

No my argument is not to pay him $14m a year only a fool would do that. I'm saying he's a typical MLE level player and I wouldn't pay him much more or go into the luxury tax for him. I reserve that for KI, JB and JT.

[Celtics4ever]

Wanamaker can play half the mins Smart played ... and still provide something

We really do not know that.   I worry about losing our toughness with Smart.

[bogg]

Wanamaker can play half the mins Smart played ... and still provide something

We really do not know that.   I worry about losing our toughness with Smart.

People really don't get how special Smart is on defense for a guy who can also play the point guard spot on offense. Any deal that gets cut has to make sense for the team, but he's not a guy you can just replace off the scrap heap.

[Neurotic Guy]

Wanamaker can play half the mins Smart played ... and still provide something

We really do not know that.   I worry about losing our toughness with Smart.

People really don't get how special Smart is on defense for a guy who can also play the point guard spot on offense. Any deal that gets cut has to make sense for the team, but he's not a guy you can just replace off the scrap heap.

Complete agree.  Losing Smart takes something  from the C’s repertoire that is not easily replaced. Countless times Marcus has come in and completely changed the flow of the game. He makes mistakes and he shoots more than he should, but Smart is a presence on the floor and good things often happen late in games when he’s on the court.

[MattyIce]

New: Latest on Marcus Smart situation. A source close to Smart says he’s “over it” & prepared to sign qualifying offer if it comes to it. But league sources say the Cs’ fondness for Smart has not waned, and that Ainge will mend personal fences if needed:

https://twitter.com/adamhimmelsbach/status/1015396520798052352?s=21

[Joyride]

Wanamaker can play half the mins Smart played ... and still provide something

We really do not know that.   I worry about losing our toughness with Smart.

You really don’t need someone like Smart when you’re blowing out teams every night. The only reason Smart was so valuable was because the Celts sucked and Smart helped us get over the hump with the others misfit toys.