Pistons reportadly rejected Ainge offer in 2015 to draft Stanley Johnson

[droopdog7]

Um, those picks turned into Rozier and a bunch of hot garbage.  DA's offer was not nearly as attractive as people make it out to be.

And as far as Rozier, you can probably bet that those teams would have drafted someone else.

Jaylen Brown or Tatum was hot garbage?

Zach Lowe, Simmons, and others have been consistent one of the picks offered was a BKN pick.

From the story:

The Celtics owned too many picks in the 2015 and 2016 drafts. They needed to unload some, simply because of roster spots. And many were so low that the quality of prospect really wouldn’t move the needle. The Pistons would have been in a similar spot.

The Celtics had the 16, 28, 33, and 45 picks in 2015 and what ended up being the 16, 23, 31, 35, 45, 51, and 58 picks in 2016. Those players turned out to be Terry Rozier, R.J. Hunter, Jordan Mickey, Marcus Thornton, Guerschon Yabusele, Ante Zizic, Deyonta Davis, Rade Zagorac, Demetrius Jackson, Ben Bentil, and Abdel Nader. Only three of those 11 players logged any minutes for the Celtics this year.

It’s basically an attempt to take a wheelbarrow full lesser picks and turn it into a more valuable one. Which was pretty much the MO of the Jeff Bower and Stan Van Gundy front office. So not only was it logical for them to turn down, well, we all agree that Danny Ainge is a smart guy, right? So the fact that he was trying to follow a similar tactic as the Pistons’ front office...that’s telling, right?

Ugh, the "story" you're quoting.

So we have a quote from Bill Simmons, that the whole "article" is based on.

so they passed on those four picks, one of which would have been Jaylen Brown. Another one would have been Rozier.

And then a blogger, who has no apparent NBA connections, speculates on all the late picks the C's have, and you quote that as a fact to prove it was only poor picks offered?

Might as well be quoting me or Moranis or Fafnir or Roy H. or nickagneta to prove your point.

I mean, it's only the story linked in the original post. 

[byennie]

Does make you wonder... would Winslow be closer to Brown's level if he had come to Boston?

If so, and not having any guarantee of Brooklyn getting #3 it seems a little less crazy. A little.

I really doubt it.

Miami does a good job developing players, they aren't a black hole for talent like the Kings/Magic.

That would be my first instinct, too, but are we so sure in this case? Who have they developed in the past 15 years since Wade? Dorell Wright, Wayne Simien, Michael Beasley, Winslow, Abedayo... that's it for 1st rounders that weren't traded. Wade and Caron Butler are the only homegrown Miami talent drafted in the last 25 years that have sniffed an All-Star game.

Fast forward to this year, and Winslow is only 6 months older than Brown. He put up 11/8/3 and has a good defensive reputation. Brown put up 15/5/2.

Suppose Winslow wasn't thrown to the wolves as a rookie (6 points in 28 minutes as a 19 year-old), maybe he develops a 3PT shot. Winslow developed properly with a 3PT shot looks a lot like Jaylen Brown.

EDIT: Winslow was 11/8/3 per 36 minutes. Admittedly hurts my case here.

[keevsnick]

Does make you wonder... would Winslow be closer to Brown's level if he had come to Boston?

If so, and not having any guarantee of Brooklyn getting #3 it seems a little less crazy. A little.

I really doubt it.

Miami does a good job developing players, they aren't a black hole for talent like the Kings/Magic.

That would be my first instinct, too, but are we so sure in this case? Who have they developed in the past 15 years since Wade? Dorell Wright, Wayne Simien, Michael Beasley, Winslow, Abedayo... that's it for 1st rounders that weren't traded. Wade and Caron Butler are the only homegrown Miami talent drafted in the last 25 years that have sniffed an All-Star game.

Fast forward to this year, and Winslow is only 6 months older than Brown. He put up 11/8/3 and has a good defensive reputation. Brown put up 15/5/2.

Suppose Winslow wasn't thrown to the wolves as a rookie (6 points in 28 minutes as a 19 year-old), maybe he develops a 3PT shot. Winslow developed properly with a 3PT shot looks a lot like Jaylen Brown.

Why do we assume the team deserves development credit at all? Plenty of young guys came here and never got any better. Maybe Jaylen would have been awesome regardless. My feeling us its alot more about the individuals drive to be great, put in the work and his own natural ability to learn and improve than it is about the team. I mean great players get devlop ed by bad teams and vice versa all the time.

[Fafnir]

droopdog7

I mean Moranis linked a better article (written at the time too) and I indicated that a BKN pick WAS in the offer for for Charlotte's pick to select Justice Winslow.

(reportedly the pick used Jaylen Brown selection)

Don't bury your head in the sand with "I'm technically correct if we only look at the OP's article and ignore everything else". Its okay to not remember everything, its okay to be wrong.

[Fafnir]

Does make you wonder... would Winslow be closer to Brown's level if he had come to Boston?

If so, and not having any guarantee of Brooklyn getting #3 it seems a little less crazy. A little.

I really doubt it.

Miami does a good job developing players, they aren't a black hole for talent like the Kings/Magic.

That would be my first instinct, too, but are we so sure in this case? Who have they developed in the past 15 years since Wade? Dorell Wright, Wayne Simien, Michael Beasley, Winslow, Abedayo... that's it for 1st rounders that weren't traded. Wade and Caron Butler are the only homegrown Miami talent drafted in the last 25 years that have sniffed an All-Star game.

Fast forward to this year, and Winslow is only 6 months older than Brown. He put up 11/8/3 and has a good defensive reputation. Brown put up 15/5/2.

Suppose Winslow wasn't thrown to the wolves as a rookie (6 points in 28 minutes as a 19 year-old), maybe he develops a 3PT shot. Winslow developed properly with a 3PT shot looks a lot like Jaylen Brown.

Well

Hassan Whiteside, Josh Richardson, Tyler Johnson, James Johnson, Chalmers, got good play out of Waiters, Haslem was a project, etc, etc.

Miami has done a lot of good work with low picks and fringe players and turning them into pretty good players. I do agree they haven't developed a star other than Wade, but they also haven't had high picks other than Wade for the most part. Beasley was the other high pick right?

Winslow was supposed to be that next guy, and he's an incomplete right now. But I think they've shown they develop talent pretty darn well.

[byennie]

Does make you wonder... would Winslow be closer to Brown's level if he had come to Boston?

If so, and not having any guarantee of Brooklyn getting #3 it seems a little less crazy. A little.

I really doubt it.

Miami does a good job developing players, they aren't a black hole for talent like the Kings/Magic.

That would be my first instinct, too, but are we so sure in this case? Who have they developed in the past 15 years since Wade? Dorell Wright, Wayne Simien, Michael Beasley, Winslow, Abedayo... that's it for 1st rounders that weren't traded. Wade and Caron Butler are the only homegrown Miami talent drafted in the last 25 years that have sniffed an All-Star game.

Fast forward to this year, and Winslow is only 6 months older than Brown. He put up 11/8/3 and has a good defensive reputation. Brown put up 15/5/2.

Suppose Winslow wasn't thrown to the wolves as a rookie (6 points in 28 minutes as a 19 year-old), maybe he develops a 3PT shot. Winslow developed properly with a 3PT shot looks a lot like Jaylen Brown.

Why do we assume the team deserves development credit at all? Plenty of young guys came here and never got any better. Maybe Jaylen would have been awesome regardless. My feeling us its alot more about the individuals drive to be great, put in the work and his own natural ability to learn and improve than it is about the team. I mean great players get devlop ed by bad teams and vice versa all the time.

We don't assume that. My point is that we're assuming Winslow would have been a bust in Boston, in order to mock the whole "6 picks" offer. It's totally plausible he'd be every bit as good as Brown by now. Not certain, but plausible.

[byennie]

Well

Hassan Whiteside, Josh Richardson, Tyler Johnson, James Johnson, Chalmers, got good play out of Waiters, Haslem was a project, etc, etc.

Miami has done a lot of good work with low picks and fringe players and turning them into pretty good players. I do agree they haven't developed a star other than Wade, but they also haven't had high picks other than Wade for the most part. Beasley was the other high pick right?

Winslow was supposed to be that next guy, and he's an incomplete right now. But I think they've shown they develop talent pretty darn well.

Turning late picks into role players is a good skill to have, but it's different than developing star talent. I'm just saying it's totally possible they hurt Winslow's trajectory. They threw him out for 28MPG as an overmatched 19 year-old and he got killed. Isn't that objectively bad?

[MaxAMillion]

I think this shows it will be hard for the C’s to move into the lottery whether they trade Rozier or not.

[droopdog7]

droopdog7

I mean Moranis linked a better article (written at the time too) and I indicated that a BKN pick WAS in the offer for for Charlotte's pick to select Justice Winslow.

(reportedly the pick used Jaylen Brown selection)

Don't bury your head in the sand with "I'm technically correct if we only look at the OP's article and ignore everything else". Its okay to not remember everything, its okay to be wrong.

Am i burying my head?  I read the story linked on the post.  I don't recall reading in the original post that it was wrong.  So shoot me.

[celticsclay]

Well

Hassan Whiteside, Josh Richardson, Tyler Johnson, James Johnson, Chalmers, got good play out of Waiters, Haslem was a project, etc, etc.

Miami has done a lot of good work with low picks and fringe players and turning them into pretty good players. I do agree they haven't developed a star other than Wade, but they also haven't had high picks other than Wade for the most part. Beasley was the other high pick right?

Winslow was supposed to be that next guy, and he's an incomplete right now. But I think they've shown they develop talent pretty darn well.

Turning late picks into role players is a good skill to have, but it's different than developing star talent. I'm just saying it's totally possible they hurt Winslow's trajectory. They threw him out for 28MPG as an overmatched 19 year-old and he got killed. Isn't that objectively bad?

Didn't Winslow also have some serious injuries and look pretty good in the playoffs? I think he could still turn out pretty good. I feel like these discussions about trade rumors go off the rails because they are all involving people with pretty big agendas and no reason to tell the truth. Some people on this forum have been completely convinced that ainge made a big offer for Okafor at some point. I never really believed that report because it just didn't make a lot of sense to me and Okafor is kind of the opposite kind of player Ainge seems to value. The fact that Okafor was available for very little over the last year and a half and Ainge didn't even want to take a free second round pick just to have a look at him suggests to me that was a completely false rumor. Maybe ainge comes out someday and says he did offer a brooklyn pick or two brookyn picks for Winslow, but unless he does, we are all relying on nonsense...

[Beat LA]

This is now the third example of Ainge being saved from himself in terms of the draft, right? Man, you've got to wonder, at what point does his luck run out, lol?

[footey]

Funny how the only thing the anti-Ainge contingent can say is that he was lucky his proposed rumored trades didn’t go through.

Kind of pathetic.

[Celtics4ever]

Thanks be to the draft Gods, that they said no.   There was a period where Danny was getting desperate for these wing types.   Four picks for the one pick, thank goodness it played out like it did.

[Roy H.]

Funny how the only thing the anti-Ainge contingent can say is that he was lucky his proposed rumored trades didn’t go through.

Kind of pathetic.

Wasn’t he lucky? I’m sure he’d admit that himself.

[kozlodoev]

Funny how the only thing the anti-Ainge contingent can say is that he was lucky his proposed rumored trades didn’t go through.

Kind of pathetic.

Wasn’t he lucky? I’m sure he’d admit that himself.

Didn't he already say it worked out for the better? I'm hard pressed to think he'll consider himself fortunate to have Winslow instead of Rozier and Brown.