Will Kyrie follow Pierce to the Rafters and Hall of Fame

[Surferdad]

I think Kyrie will resign with the Celtics. He can't go anywhere else and get what Stevens will do for him. They will win 2 titles in 2019, 2020 or 2021. Kyrie will become the major recruiter and will develop more leadership skills as the year goes on.

Kyrie wanted to get out from under Bron. Bron sucks all the oxygen out of the room anywhere he goes. Kyrie couldn't blossom under him and the Cavs were going to be horrible once Bron left...Kyrie knew it and wanted out. Great move by Ainge

It's the kind of move that, more than anything, requires patience, something that is sorely lacking in many CB Forum posters.    Ainge passed up many players we thought were targets (Cousins, Butler, etc.).  CB Forums are fun and we all want to be armchair GMs, but Ainge is doing this as a profession.

[droopdog7]

Way back in '98, I thought Antoine was a lock to get his jersey retired.  Only his 2nd season and he had already put up a few triple doubles and was an All-Star.  Along with Kobe, was the first in that historic draft class to be an All-Star, beating out Iverson, Ray Allen, Marbury, Nash, etc.  And Kobe only made it because he was voted by fans, while Walker earned it by being selected by the coaches!  I figured dude was a lock to get his jersey retired at that point.

Then in the mid-00's, man did Big Al look legit. 16 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 blocks in only his 3rd season straight of a high school.  He looked like he would be the foundation of Celtics teams for the next decade.  Would love to see some polls of C's fans from '07 asking if they'd prefer to build around Big Al or Pierce, as I think many preferred Big Al.  At the time, it probably seemed like his jersey is definitely going in the rafters, right?

And up until about 6 months ago, to me at least, it seemed pretty much unfathomable that IT wouldn't get his jersey retired here.

All that to say, way too earlier to make a call on Kyrie's number hanging in the rafters.

Walker was a great player, but Kyrie is leaps and bounds already above him and that's not even a question.. Walker have had so many freakin' chances with the Celtics, it isn't even funny... Sure he had gaudy numbers, but over the next few years, it got into his head, and he eventually relied heavily on his 3 point shooting... At the age of 25/26, he was taking 7.5 and 8.0 3PA.. At
.344/.323 clip average.... That is horrendous...


NBA champion (2006)
3× NBA All-Star (1998, 2002, 2003)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1997)
NCAA champion (1996)
First-team All-SEC (1996)


NBA champion (2016)
4× NBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2014)
All-NBA Third Team (2015)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2012)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA Rising Stars Challenge MVP (2012)
NBA Three-Point Shootout champion (2013)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2014)
FIBA World Cup MVP (2014)

Now which resume looks relatively better?

Everyone knew Kyrie was a stud even after he finished college... No one was worried whether or not he could or not play in the NBA. It was a matter of his injury history in high school and college that had people worried.

what does that have to do with the Celtics?  You don't get your number in the Celtic's rafters by being a great player, otherwise Shaq would have his number up there.  You have your number in the rafters for what you do as a Celtic.  And as a Celtic, Walker is far superior to Irving at this point.  It isn't close and isn't debatable.

It also isn't debatable that Irving is better right now than Walker ever was and that Irving has a much better case for the HOF than Walker does.

So please tell me how your second paragraph doesn't contradict your first statement. Kyrie Irving is already better than Walker and he's only gonna get better. Also.. You really think Kyrie is not gonna stay a Celtic for at least for a few more years? It would make no sense for the Celtics to walk away in 2 years.

Shaq was a better player than Walker and Irving combined.  Shaq played for the Celtics.  Shaq's number isn't in the rafters nor should it be. 

I really don't understand how this is a difficult concept to understand.  Irving has played less than half a season with the Celtics.  Talk of his number in the rafters is ridiculous until he has played at least 5 seasons with the team.  He may not play more than 2.  He might get hurt.  He might just fall off a cliff in a couple of seasons and end up not worthy.

Terrible comparison.  Shaq was on his last legs when he signed.  No reasonable person would have expected his number to be retired given the situation. 

Kyrie is just entering his prime following a hall of fame first five years.  He's also having a top 10 MVP season right now.

So yeah, comparing shaq's celtic career to the potential of Kyrie's is like comparing my mother in law to Sofia Vergara.

[Monkhouse]

Way back in '98, I thought Antoine was a lock to get his jersey retired.  Only his 2nd season and he had already put up a few triple doubles and was an All-Star.  Along with Kobe, was the first in that historic draft class to be an All-Star, beating out Iverson, Ray Allen, Marbury, Nash, etc.  And Kobe only made it because he was voted by fans, while Walker earned it by being selected by the coaches!  I figured dude was a lock to get his jersey retired at that point.

Then in the mid-00's, man did Big Al look legit. 16 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 blocks in only his 3rd season straight of a high school.  He looked like he would be the foundation of Celtics teams for the next decade.  Would love to see some polls of C's fans from '07 asking if they'd prefer to build around Big Al or Pierce, as I think many preferred Big Al.  At the time, it probably seemed like his jersey is definitely going in the rafters, right?

And up until about 6 months ago, to me at least, it seemed pretty much unfathomable that IT wouldn't get his jersey retired here.

All that to say, way too earlier to make a call on Kyrie's number hanging in the rafters.

Walker was a great player, but Kyrie is leaps and bounds already above him and that's not even a question.. Walker have had so many freakin' chances with the Celtics, it isn't even funny... Sure he had gaudy numbers, but over the next few years, it got into his head, and he eventually relied heavily on his 3 point shooting... At the age of 25/26, he was taking 7.5 and 8.0 3PA.. At
.344/.323 clip average.... That is horrendous...


NBA champion (2006)
3× NBA All-Star (1998, 2002, 2003)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1997)
NCAA champion (1996)
First-team All-SEC (1996)


NBA champion (2016)
4× NBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2014)
All-NBA Third Team (2015)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2012)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA Rising Stars Challenge MVP (2012)
NBA Three-Point Shootout champion (2013)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2014)
FIBA World Cup MVP (2014)

Now which resume looks relatively better?

Everyone knew Kyrie was a stud even after he finished college... No one was worried whether or not he could or not play in the NBA. It was a matter of his injury history in high school and college that had people worried.

what does that have to do with the Celtics?  You don't get your number in the Celtic's rafters by being a great player, otherwise Shaq would have his number up there.  You have your number in the rafters for what you do as a Celtic.  And as a Celtic, Walker is far superior to Irving at this point.  It isn't close and isn't debatable.

It also isn't debatable that Irving is better right now than Walker ever was and that Irving has a much better case for the HOF than Walker does.

So please tell me how your second paragraph doesn't contradict your first statement. Kyrie Irving is already better than Walker and he's only gonna get better. Also.. You really think Kyrie is not gonna stay a Celtic for at least for a few more years? It would make no sense for the Celtics to walk away in 2 years.

Shaq was a better player than Walker and Irving combined.  Shaq played for the Celtics.  Shaq's number isn't in the rafters nor should it be. 

I really don't understand how this is a difficult concept to understand.  Irving has played less than half a season with the Celtics.  Talk of his number in the rafters is ridiculous until he has played at least 5 seasons with the team.  He may not play more than 2.  He might get hurt.  He might just fall off a cliff in a couple of seasons and end up not worthy.

What...?

The whole point of this thread is to speculate whether or not Kyrie could potentially be on the trending list of HoF/rafter candidates like Paul Pierce. Obviously no one can know definitively if Kyrie Irving will end up as a HoFer or get his name in the rafters... But what I do know is that Irving has accomplished far more than Walker has in their respective compared years. Sure Irving doesn't have the stats Walkers had, but I think Irving has shown this year he's willing to put in the work.

Shaq was a shell of his former self. That is the worst comparison I have ever heard.
Walker was an selfish and overrated player who loved taking difficult jumpshots and shooting 3's, and literally played himself out of the Celtics.

Kyrie Irving looks way more promising, and our team is 30-10. While we have a better team, we clearly have had a really tough schedule with absolutely no rest.

And looking back at my previous post, where did I once say that Kyrie's jersey will get put up in the rafters for the Celtics? I said his resume is clearly better, therefore, he's the superior player, and ergo if he stays with the Celtics, then yes, he possibly could...

Do you seriously just like to argue just to argue? Jeez.

Way back in '98, I thought Antoine was a lock to get his jersey retired.  Only his 2nd season and he had already put up a few triple doubles and was an All-Star.  Along with Kobe, was the first in that historic draft class to be an All-Star, beating out Iverson, Ray Allen, Marbury, Nash, etc.  And Kobe only made it because he was voted by fans, while Walker earned it by being selected by the coaches!  I figured dude was a lock to get his jersey retired at that point.

Then in the mid-00's, man did Big Al look legit. 16 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 blocks in only his 3rd season straight of a high school.  He looked like he would be the foundation of Celtics teams for the next decade.  Would love to see some polls of C's fans from '07 asking if they'd prefer to build around Big Al or Pierce, as I think many preferred Big Al.  At the time, it probably seemed like his jersey is definitely going in the rafters, right?

And up until about 6 months ago, to me at least, it seemed pretty much unfathomable that IT wouldn't get his jersey retired here.

All that to say, way too earlier to make a call on Kyrie's number hanging in the rafters.

Walker was a great player, but Kyrie is leaps and bounds already above him and that's not even a question.. Walker have had so many freakin' chances with the Celtics, it isn't even funny... Sure he had gaudy numbers, but over the next few years, it got into his head, and he eventually relied heavily on his 3 point shooting... At the age of 25/26, he was taking 7.5 and 8.0 3PA.. At
.344/.323 clip average.... That is horrendous...


NBA champion (2006)
3× NBA All-Star (1998, 2002, 2003)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1997)
NCAA champion (1996)
First-team All-SEC (1996)


NBA champion (2016)
4× NBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2014)
All-NBA Third Team (2015)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2012)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA Rising Stars Challenge MVP (2012)
NBA Three-Point Shootout champion (2013)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2014)
FIBA World Cup MVP (2014)

Now which resume looks relatively better?

Everyone knew Kyrie was a stud even after he finished college... No one was worried whether or not he could or not play in the NBA. It was a matter of his injury history in high school and college that had people worried.

what does that have to do with the Celtics?  You don't get your number in the Celtic's rafters by being a great player, otherwise Shaq would have his number up there.  You have your number in the rafters for what you do as a Celtic.  And as a Celtic, Walker is far superior to Irving at this point.  It isn't close and isn't debatable.

It also isn't debatable that Irving is better right now than Walker ever was and that Irving has a much better case for the HOF than Walker does.

So please tell me how your second paragraph doesn't contradict your first statement. Kyrie Irving is already better than Walker and he's only gonna get better. Also.. You really think Kyrie is not gonna stay a Celtic for at least for a few more years? It would make no sense for the Celtics to walk away in 2 years.

Shaq was a better player than Walker and Irving combined.  Shaq played for the Celtics.  Shaq's number isn't in the rafters nor should it be. 

I really don't understand how this is a difficult concept to understand.  Irving has played less than half a season with the Celtics.  Talk of his number in the rafters is ridiculous until he has played at least 5 seasons with the team.  He may not play more than 2.  He might get hurt.  He might just fall off a cliff in a couple of seasons and end up not worthy.

Terrible comparison.  Shaq was on his last legs when he signed.  No reasonable person would have expected his number to be retired given the situation. 

Kyrie is just entering his prime following a hall of fame first five years.  He's also having a top 10 MVP season right now.

So yeah, comparing shaq's celtic career to the potential of Kyrie's is like comparing my mother in law to Sofia Vergara.

Thank you. Absolutely ridiculous.

Kyrie is only 25, entering his prime surrounded by two emerging young stars, and two Allstars.... I don't think he's gonna miss as many games as he did, because he's not gonna have to force himself to be the focal point of the offense every game.

[Moranis]

Way back in '98, I thought Antoine was a lock to get his jersey retired.  Only his 2nd season and he had already put up a few triple doubles and was an All-Star.  Along with Kobe, was the first in that historic draft class to be an All-Star, beating out Iverson, Ray Allen, Marbury, Nash, etc.  And Kobe only made it because he was voted by fans, while Walker earned it by being selected by the coaches!  I figured dude was a lock to get his jersey retired at that point.

Then in the mid-00's, man did Big Al look legit. 16 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 blocks in only his 3rd season straight of a high school.  He looked like he would be the foundation of Celtics teams for the next decade.  Would love to see some polls of C's fans from '07 asking if they'd prefer to build around Big Al or Pierce, as I think many preferred Big Al.  At the time, it probably seemed like his jersey is definitely going in the rafters, right?

And up until about 6 months ago, to me at least, it seemed pretty much unfathomable that IT wouldn't get his jersey retired here.

All that to say, way too earlier to make a call on Kyrie's number hanging in the rafters.

Walker was a great player, but Kyrie is leaps and bounds already above him and that's not even a question.. Walker have had so many freakin' chances with the Celtics, it isn't even funny... Sure he had gaudy numbers, but over the next few years, it got into his head, and he eventually relied heavily on his 3 point shooting... At the age of 25/26, he was taking 7.5 and 8.0 3PA.. At
.344/.323 clip average.... That is horrendous...


NBA champion (2006)
3× NBA All-Star (1998, 2002, 2003)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1997)
NCAA champion (1996)
First-team All-SEC (1996)


NBA champion (2016)
4× NBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2014)
All-NBA Third Team (2015)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2012)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA Rising Stars Challenge MVP (2012)
NBA Three-Point Shootout champion (2013)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2014)
FIBA World Cup MVP (2014)

Now which resume looks relatively better?

Everyone knew Kyrie was a stud even after he finished college... No one was worried whether or not he could or not play in the NBA. It was a matter of his injury history in high school and college that had people worried.

what does that have to do with the Celtics?  You don't get your number in the Celtic's rafters by being a great player, otherwise Shaq would have his number up there.  You have your number in the rafters for what you do as a Celtic.  And as a Celtic, Walker is far superior to Irving at this point.  It isn't close and isn't debatable.

It also isn't debatable that Irving is better right now than Walker ever was and that Irving has a much better case for the HOF than Walker does.

So please tell me how your second paragraph doesn't contradict your first statement. Kyrie Irving is already better than Walker and he's only gonna get better. Also.. You really think Kyrie is not gonna stay a Celtic for at least for a few more years? It would make no sense for the Celtics to walk away in 2 years.

Shaq was a better player than Walker and Irving combined.  Shaq played for the Celtics.  Shaq's number isn't in the rafters nor should it be. 

I really don't understand how this is a difficult concept to understand.  Irving has played less than half a season with the Celtics.  Talk of his number in the rafters is ridiculous until he has played at least 5 seasons with the team.  He may not play more than 2.  He might get hurt.  He might just fall off a cliff in a couple of seasons and end up not worthy.

Terrible comparison.  Shaq was on his last legs when he signed.  No reasonable person would have expected his number to be retired given the situation. 

Kyrie is just entering his prime following a hall of fame first five years.  He's also having a top 10 MVP season right now.

So yeah, comparing shaq's celtic career to the potential of Kyrie's is like comparing my mother in law to Sofia Vergara.

The thing is, all of those accolades for Irving were before he was a Celtic.  They are irrelevant just like Shaq's prior career.  Irving is only signed for one more year past this one.  He easily could decide to leave then.  It is silly to speculate because so much can change.  Irving might blow out his ACL tonight and never be the same.  He might leave in free agency.  He might demand another trade.  Ainge might just trade him rather than pay him 35 million a year.  He might just age quickly and never put up the stats he would need to be in the rafters. It is just nonsense to have a discussion whether a player belongs in the rafters for a team he has played for for less than half a season.

[CelticsElite]

Way back in '98, I thought Antoine was a lock to get his jersey retired.  Only his 2nd season and he had already put up a few triple doubles and was an All-Star.  Along with Kobe, was the first in that historic draft class to be an All-Star, beating out Iverson, Ray Allen, Marbury, Nash, etc.  And Kobe only made it because he was voted by fans, while Walker earned it by being selected by the coaches!  I figured dude was a lock to get his jersey retired at that point.

Then in the mid-00's, man did Big Al look legit. 16 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 blocks in only his 3rd season straight of a high school.  He looked like he would be the foundation of Celtics teams for the next decade.  Would love to see some polls of C's fans from '07 asking if they'd prefer to build around Big Al or Pierce, as I think many preferred Big Al.  At the time, it probably seemed like his jersey is definitely going in the rafters, right?

And up until about 6 months ago, to me at least, it seemed pretty much unfathomable that IT wouldn't get his jersey retired here.

All that to say, way too earlier to make a call on Kyrie's number hanging in the rafters.

Walker was a great player, but Kyrie is leaps and bounds already above him and that's not even a question.. Walker have had so many freakin' chances with the Celtics, it isn't even funny... Sure he had gaudy numbers, but over the next few years, it got into his head, and he eventually relied heavily on his 3 point shooting... At the age of 25/26, he was taking 7.5 and 8.0 3PA.. At
.344/.323 clip average.... That is horrendous...


NBA champion (2006)
3× NBA All-Star (1998, 2002, 2003)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1997)
NCAA champion (1996)
First-team All-SEC (1996)


NBA champion (2016)
4× NBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2014)
All-NBA Third Team (2015)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2012)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA Rising Stars Challenge MVP (2012)
NBA Three-Point Shootout champion (2013)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2014)
FIBA World Cup MVP (2014)

Now which resume looks relatively better?

Everyone knew Kyrie was a stud even after he finished college... No one was worried whether or not he could or not play in the NBA. It was a matter of his injury history in high school and college that had people worried.

what does that have to do with the Celtics?  You don't get your number in the Celtic's rafters by being a great player, otherwise Shaq would have his number up there.  You have your number in the rafters for what you do as a Celtic.  And as a Celtic, Walker is far superior to Irving at this point.  It isn't close and isn't debatable.

It also isn't debatable that Irving is better right now than Walker ever was and that Irving has a much better case for the HOF than Walker does.

So please tell me how your second paragraph doesn't contradict your first statement. Kyrie Irving is already better than Walker and he's only gonna get better. Also.. You really think Kyrie is not gonna stay a Celtic for at least for a few more years? It would make no sense for the Celtics to walk away in 2 years.

Shaq was a better player than Walker and Irving combined.  Shaq played for the Celtics.  Shaq's number isn't in the rafters nor should it be. 

I really don't understand how this is a difficult concept to understand.  Irving has played less than half a season with the Celtics.  Talk of his number in the rafters is ridiculous until he has played at least 5 seasons with the team.  He may not play more than 2.  He might get hurt.  He might just fall off a cliff in a couple of seasons and end up not worthy.

Terrible comparison.  Shaq was on his last legs when he signed.  No reasonable person would have expected his number to be retired given the situation. 

Kyrie is just entering his prime following a hall of fame first five years.  He's also having a top 10 MVP season right now.

So yeah, comparing shaq's celtic career to the potential of Kyrie's is like comparing my mother in law to Sofia Vergara.

The thing is, all of those accolades for Irving were before he was a Celtic.  They are irrelevant just like Shaq's prior career.  Irving is only signed for one more year past this one.  He easily could decide to leave then.  It is silly to speculate because so much can change.  Irving might blow out his ACL tonight and never be the same.  He might leave in free agency.  He might demand another trade.  Ainge might just trade him rather than pay him 35 million a year.  He might just age quickly and never put up the stats he would need to be in the rafters. It is just nonsense to have a discussion whether a player belongs in the rafters for a team he has played for for less than half a season.

you know you're pulling at threads when you're comparing 40 year old shaqs accomplishments to 25 year old kyrie. Shaq was virtually done when he joined us. Kyrie has a decade or so left in his prime. That's the difference. The "he can tear his ACL" argument is ridiculous. Is there a player who can't?

[Donoghus]

Way back in '98, I thought Antoine was a lock to get his jersey retired.  Only his 2nd season and he had already put up a few triple doubles and was an All-Star.  Along with Kobe, was the first in that historic draft class to be an All-Star, beating out Iverson, Ray Allen, Marbury, Nash, etc.  And Kobe only made it because he was voted by fans, while Walker earned it by being selected by the coaches!  I figured dude was a lock to get his jersey retired at that point.

Then in the mid-00's, man did Big Al look legit. 16 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 blocks in only his 3rd season straight of a high school.  He looked like he would be the foundation of Celtics teams for the next decade.  Would love to see some polls of C's fans from '07 asking if they'd prefer to build around Big Al or Pierce, as I think many preferred Big Al.  At the time, it probably seemed like his jersey is definitely going in the rafters, right?

And up until about 6 months ago, to me at least, it seemed pretty much unfathomable that IT wouldn't get his jersey retired here.

All that to say, way too earlier to make a call on Kyrie's number hanging in the rafters.

Walker was a great player, but Kyrie is leaps and bounds already above him and that's not even a question.. Walker have had so many freakin' chances with the Celtics, it isn't even funny... Sure he had gaudy numbers, but over the next few years, it got into his head, and he eventually relied heavily on his 3 point shooting... At the age of 25/26, he was taking 7.5 and 8.0 3PA.. At
.344/.323 clip average.... That is horrendous...


NBA champion (2006)
3× NBA All-Star (1998, 2002, 2003)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1997)
NCAA champion (1996)
First-team All-SEC (1996)


NBA champion (2016)
4× NBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2014)
All-NBA Third Team (2015)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2012)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA Rising Stars Challenge MVP (2012)
NBA Three-Point Shootout champion (2013)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2014)
FIBA World Cup MVP (2014)

Now which resume looks relatively better?

Everyone knew Kyrie was a stud even after he finished college... No one was worried whether or not he could or not play in the NBA. It was a matter of his injury history in high school and college that had people worried.

what does that have to do with the Celtics?  You don't get your number in the Celtic's rafters by being a great player, otherwise Shaq would have his number up there.  You have your number in the rafters for what you do as a Celtic.  And as a Celtic, Walker is far superior to Irving at this point.  It isn't close and isn't debatable.

It also isn't debatable that Irving is better right now than Walker ever was and that Irving has a much better case for the HOF than Walker does.

So please tell me how your second paragraph doesn't contradict your first statement. Kyrie Irving is already better than Walker and he's only gonna get better. Also.. You really think Kyrie is not gonna stay a Celtic for at least for a few more years? It would make no sense for the Celtics to walk away in 2 years.

Shaq was a better player than Walker and Irving combined.  Shaq played for the Celtics.  Shaq's number isn't in the rafters nor should it be. 

I really don't understand how this is a difficult concept to understand.  Irving has played less than half a season with the Celtics.  Talk of his number in the rafters is ridiculous until he has played at least 5 seasons with the team.  He may not play more than 2.  He might get hurt.  He might just fall off a cliff in a couple of seasons and end up not worthy.

Terrible comparison.  Shaq was on his last legs when he signed.  No reasonable person would have expected his number to be retired given the situation. 

Kyrie is just entering his prime following a hall of fame first five years.  He's also having a top 10 MVP season right now.

So yeah, comparing shaq's celtic career to the potential of Kyrie's is like comparing my mother in law to Sofia Vergara.

The thing is, all of those accolades for Irving were before he was a Celtic.  They are irrelevant just like Shaq's prior career.  Irving is only signed for one more year past this one.  He easily could decide to leave then.  It is silly to speculate because so much can change.  Irving might blow out his ACL tonight and never be the same.  He might leave in free agency.  He might demand another trade.  Ainge might just trade him rather than pay him 35 million a year.  He might just age quickly and never put up the stats he would need to be in the rafters. It is just nonsense to have a discussion whether a player belongs in the rafters for a team he has played for for less than half a season.

you know you're pulling at threads when you're comparing 40 year old shaqs accomplishments to 25 year old kyrie. Shaq was virtually done when he joined us. Kyrie has a decade or so left in his prime. That's the difference. The "he can tear his ACL" argument is ridiculous. Is there a player who can't?

DeJuan Blair

[Moranis]

Way back in '98, I thought Antoine was a lock to get his jersey retired.  Only his 2nd season and he had already put up a few triple doubles and was an All-Star.  Along with Kobe, was the first in that historic draft class to be an All-Star, beating out Iverson, Ray Allen, Marbury, Nash, etc.  And Kobe only made it because he was voted by fans, while Walker earned it by being selected by the coaches!  I figured dude was a lock to get his jersey retired at that point.

Then in the mid-00's, man did Big Al look legit. 16 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 blocks in only his 3rd season straight of a high school.  He looked like he would be the foundation of Celtics teams for the next decade.  Would love to see some polls of C's fans from '07 asking if they'd prefer to build around Big Al or Pierce, as I think many preferred Big Al.  At the time, it probably seemed like his jersey is definitely going in the rafters, right?

And up until about 6 months ago, to me at least, it seemed pretty much unfathomable that IT wouldn't get his jersey retired here.

All that to say, way too earlier to make a call on Kyrie's number hanging in the rafters.

Walker was a great player, but Kyrie is leaps and bounds already above him and that's not even a question.. Walker have had so many freakin' chances with the Celtics, it isn't even funny... Sure he had gaudy numbers, but over the next few years, it got into his head, and he eventually relied heavily on his 3 point shooting... At the age of 25/26, he was taking 7.5 and 8.0 3PA.. At
.344/.323 clip average.... That is horrendous...


NBA champion (2006)
3× NBA All-Star (1998, 2002, 2003)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1997)
NCAA champion (1996)
First-team All-SEC (1996)


NBA champion (2016)
4× NBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2014)
All-NBA Third Team (2015)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2012)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA Rising Stars Challenge MVP (2012)
NBA Three-Point Shootout champion (2013)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2014)
FIBA World Cup MVP (2014)

Now which resume looks relatively better?

Everyone knew Kyrie was a stud even after he finished college... No one was worried whether or not he could or not play in the NBA. It was a matter of his injury history in high school and college that had people worried.

what does that have to do with the Celtics?  You don't get your number in the Celtic's rafters by being a great player, otherwise Shaq would have his number up there.  You have your number in the rafters for what you do as a Celtic.  And as a Celtic, Walker is far superior to Irving at this point.  It isn't close and isn't debatable.

It also isn't debatable that Irving is better right now than Walker ever was and that Irving has a much better case for the HOF than Walker does.

So please tell me how your second paragraph doesn't contradict your first statement. Kyrie Irving is already better than Walker and he's only gonna get better. Also.. You really think Kyrie is not gonna stay a Celtic for at least for a few more years? It would make no sense for the Celtics to walk away in 2 years.

Shaq was a better player than Walker and Irving combined.  Shaq played for the Celtics.  Shaq's number isn't in the rafters nor should it be. 

I really don't understand how this is a difficult concept to understand.  Irving has played less than half a season with the Celtics.  Talk of his number in the rafters is ridiculous until he has played at least 5 seasons with the team.  He may not play more than 2.  He might get hurt.  He might just fall off a cliff in a couple of seasons and end up not worthy.

Terrible comparison.  Shaq was on his last legs when he signed.  No reasonable person would have expected his number to be retired given the situation. 

Kyrie is just entering his prime following a hall of fame first five years.  He's also having a top 10 MVP season right now.

So yeah, comparing shaq's celtic career to the potential of Kyrie's is like comparing my mother in law to Sofia Vergara.

The thing is, all of those accolades for Irving were before he was a Celtic.  They are irrelevant just like Shaq's prior career.  Irving is only signed for one more year past this one.  He easily could decide to leave then.  It is silly to speculate because so much can change.  Irving might blow out his ACL tonight and never be the same.  He might leave in free agency.  He might demand another trade.  Ainge might just trade him rather than pay him 35 million a year.  He might just age quickly and never put up the stats he would need to be in the rafters. It is just nonsense to have a discussion whether a player belongs in the rafters for a team he has played for for less than half a season.

you know you're pulling at threads when you're comparing 40 year old shaqs accomplishments to 25 year old kyrie. Shaq was virtually done when he joined us. Kyrie has a decade or so left in his prime. That's the difference. The "he can tear his ACL" argument is ridiculous. Is there a player who can't?

Kyrie has played 38 games for the Celtics.  I guess that makes him rafter worthy

[Celtics4ever]

Way, too early, to tell.   No guarantee that he stays either.  If he stays and wins though it is a possibility.

[Greyman]

If the answer to this turns out, in the fullness of time, to be 'yes', then we have some great years ahead for the Celtics. If you are saying 'yes' now, you are predicting future championships for the Celtics.

[Ilikesports17]

Way back in '98, I thought Antoine was a lock to get his jersey retired.  Only his 2nd season and he had already put up a few triple doubles and was an All-Star.  Along with Kobe, was the first in that historic draft class to be an All-Star, beating out Iverson, Ray Allen, Marbury, Nash, etc.  And Kobe only made it because he was voted by fans, while Walker earned it by being selected by the coaches!  I figured dude was a lock to get his jersey retired at that point.

Then in the mid-00's, man did Big Al look legit. 16 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 blocks in only his 3rd season straight of a high school.  He looked like he would be the foundation of Celtics teams for the next decade.  Would love to see some polls of C's fans from '07 asking if they'd prefer to build around Big Al or Pierce, as I think many preferred Big Al.  At the time, it probably seemed like his jersey is definitely going in the rafters, right?

And up until about 6 months ago, to me at least, it seemed pretty much unfathomable that IT wouldn't get his jersey retired here.

All that to say, way too earlier to make a call on Kyrie's number hanging in the rafters.

Walker was a great player, but Kyrie is leaps and bounds already above him and that's not even a question.. Walker have had so many freakin' chances with the Celtics, it isn't even funny... Sure he had gaudy numbers, but over the next few years, it got into his head, and he eventually relied heavily on his 3 point shooting... At the age of 25/26, he was taking 7.5 and 8.0 3PA.. At
.344/.323 clip average.... That is horrendous...


NBA champion (2006)
3× NBA All-Star (1998, 2002, 2003)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1997)
NCAA champion (1996)
First-team All-SEC (1996)


NBA champion (2016)
4× NBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2014)
All-NBA Third Team (2015)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2012)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA Rising Stars Challenge MVP (2012)
NBA Three-Point Shootout champion (2013)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2014)
FIBA World Cup MVP (2014)

Now which resume looks relatively better?

Everyone knew Kyrie was a stud even after he finished college... No one was worried whether or not he could or not play in the NBA. It was a matter of his injury history in high school and college that had people worried.

what does that have to do with the Celtics?  You don't get your number in the Celtic's rafters by being a great player, otherwise Shaq would have his number up there.  You have your number in the rafters for what you do as a Celtic.  And as a Celtic, Walker is far superior to Irving at this point.  It isn't close and isn't debatable.

It also isn't debatable that Irving is better right now than Walker ever was and that Irving has a much better case for the HOF than Walker does.

So please tell me how your second paragraph doesn't contradict your first statement. Kyrie Irving is already better than Walker and he's only gonna get better. Also.. You really think Kyrie is not gonna stay a Celtic for at least for a few more years? It would make no sense for the Celtics to walk away in 2 years.

Shaq was a better player than Walker and Irving combined.  Shaq played for the Celtics.  Shaq's number isn't in the rafters nor should it be. 

I really don't understand how this is a difficult concept to understand.  Irving has played less than half a season with the Celtics.  Talk of his number in the rafters is ridiculous until he has played at least 5 seasons with the team.  He may not play more than 2.  He might get hurt.  He might just fall off a cliff in a couple of seasons and end up not worthy.

Terrible comparison.  Shaq was on his last legs when he signed.  No reasonable person would have expected his number to be retired given the situation. 

Kyrie is just entering his prime following a hall of fame first five years.  He's also having a top 10 MVP season right now.

So yeah, comparing shaq's celtic career to the potential of Kyrie's is like comparing my mother in law to Sofia Vergara.

The thing is, all of those accolades for Irving were before he was a Celtic.  They are irrelevant just like Shaq's prior career.  Irving is only signed for one more year past this one.  He easily could decide to leave then.  It is silly to speculate because so much can change.  Irving might blow out his ACL tonight and never be the same.  He might leave in free agency.  He might demand another trade.  Ainge might just trade him rather than pay him 35 million a year.  He might just age quickly and never put up the stats he would need to be in the rafters. It is just nonsense to have a discussion whether a player belongs in the rafters for a team he has played for for less than half a season.

you know you're pulling at threads when you're comparing 40 year old shaqs accomplishments to 25 year old kyrie. Shaq was virtually done when he joined us. Kyrie has a decade or so left in his prime. That's the difference. The "he can tear his ACL" argument is ridiculous. Is there a player who can't?

Kyrie has played 38 games for the Celtics.  I guess that makes him rafter worthy

Don't be intentionally dense. You know exactly what these posters mean. We are a fan blog. We speculate about the future. No need to be an ass about it.

[smokeablount]

We are speculating Moranis, like you do all the time, when you say Boston isn't a contender, etc.

If Kyrie resigns for 4 or 5 years on a max deal, he has solid health and Hayward comes back strong, I'd think our team will be good enough to win a title and he'd be the best player on it.

Someone said he's having a top 10 MVP season.  He's #7 in PER and #4 in Win Shares, so you could make a case he's having a top 5-7 MVP year in the IT range.  He could do just as well next year, and then get that contract as he enters his prime.  5 years of Kyrie aged 27-31 would be rafter worthy Celtic numbers if they won a title or two.

[gouki88]

Way back in '98, I thought Antoine was a lock to get his jersey retired.  Only his 2nd season and he had already put up a few triple doubles and was an All-Star.  Along with Kobe, was the first in that historic draft class to be an All-Star, beating out Iverson, Ray Allen, Marbury, Nash, etc.  And Kobe only made it because he was voted by fans, while Walker earned it by being selected by the coaches!  I figured dude was a lock to get his jersey retired at that point.

Then in the mid-00's, man did Big Al look legit. 16 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 blocks in only his 3rd season straight of a high school.  He looked like he would be the foundation of Celtics teams for the next decade.  Would love to see some polls of C's fans from '07 asking if they'd prefer to build around Big Al or Pierce, as I think many preferred Big Al.  At the time, it probably seemed like his jersey is definitely going in the rafters, right?

And up until about 6 months ago, to me at least, it seemed pretty much unfathomable that IT wouldn't get his jersey retired here.

All that to say, way too earlier to make a call on Kyrie's number hanging in the rafters.

Walker was a great player, but Kyrie is leaps and bounds already above him and that's not even a question.. Walker have had so many freakin' chances with the Celtics, it isn't even funny... Sure he had gaudy numbers, but over the next few years, it got into his head, and he eventually relied heavily on his 3 point shooting... At the age of 25/26, he was taking 7.5 and 8.0 3PA.. At
.344/.323 clip average.... That is horrendous...


NBA champion (2006)
3× NBA All-Star (1998, 2002, 2003)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1997)
NCAA champion (1996)
First-team All-SEC (1996)


NBA champion (2016)
4× NBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2014)
All-NBA Third Team (2015)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2012)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA Rising Stars Challenge MVP (2012)
NBA Three-Point Shootout champion (2013)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2014)
FIBA World Cup MVP (2014)

Now which resume looks relatively better?

Everyone knew Kyrie was a stud even after he finished college... No one was worried whether or not he could or not play in the NBA. It was a matter of his injury history in high school and college that had people worried.

what does that have to do with the Celtics?  You don't get your number in the Celtic's rafters by being a great player, otherwise Shaq would have his number up there.  You have your number in the rafters for what you do as a Celtic.  And as a Celtic, Walker is far superior to Irving at this point.  It isn't close and isn't debatable.

It also isn't debatable that Irving is better right now than Walker ever was and that Irving has a much better case for the HOF than Walker does.

So please tell me how your second paragraph doesn't contradict your first statement. Kyrie Irving is already better than Walker and he's only gonna get better. Also.. You really think Kyrie is not gonna stay a Celtic for at least for a few more years? It would make no sense for the Celtics to walk away in 2 years.

Shaq was a better player than Walker and Irving combined.  Shaq played for the Celtics.  Shaq's number isn't in the rafters nor should it be. 

I really don't understand how this is a difficult concept to understand.  Irving has played less than half a season with the Celtics.  Talk of his number in the rafters is ridiculous until he has played at least 5 seasons with the team.  He may not play more than 2.  He might get hurt.  He might just fall off a cliff in a couple of seasons and end up not worthy.

Terrible comparison.  Shaq was on his last legs when he signed.  No reasonable person would have expected his number to be retired given the situation. 

Kyrie is just entering his prime following a hall of fame first five years.  He's also having a top 10 MVP season right now.

So yeah, comparing shaq's celtic career to the potential of Kyrie's is like comparing my mother in law to Sofia Vergara.

The thing is, all of those accolades for Irving were before he was a Celtic.  They are irrelevant just like Shaq's prior career.  Irving is only signed for one more year past this one.  He easily could decide to leave then.  It is silly to speculate because so much can change.  Irving might blow out his ACL tonight and never be the same.  He might leave in free agency.  He might demand another trade.  Ainge might just trade him rather than pay him 35 million a year.  He might just age quickly and never put up the stats he would need to be in the rafters. It is just nonsense to have a discussion whether a player belongs in the rafters for a team he has played for for less than half a season.

you know you're pulling at threads when you're comparing 40 year old shaqs accomplishments to 25 year old kyrie. Shaq was virtually done when he joined us. Kyrie has a decade or so left in his prime. That's the difference. The "he can tear his ACL" argument is ridiculous. Is there a player who can't?

DeJuan Blair

He was always a binkie of mine

[gouki88]

Ultimately, I think yes to both. His career is basically a lock for Hall of Fame worthy, no need to readdress that at this stage.

I'm a firm believer that Kyrie Irving will spend the rest of his career in Boston, barring a Pierce and KG like trade where he's on the decline and we move him for young pieces. It's also obvious that DA will stop at nothing to improve this team, and if that means moving Kyrie then he will do so without blinking an eye - I just don't see a scenario where moving Kyrie would benefit the team.
Kyrie looks very invested in both the Celtics and Coach Stevens, and I believe he wants to cement his legacy as a Celtic great. If he wins 1 championship here as the biggest star and stays here for the next 8 years or so, his number is definitely going up.

The previous Shaq comparison is laughable, though

[moiso]

Way back in '98, I thought Antoine was a lock to get his jersey retired.  Only his 2nd season and he had already put up a few triple doubles and was an All-Star.  Along with Kobe, was the first in that historic draft class to be an All-Star, beating out Iverson, Ray Allen, Marbury, Nash, etc.  And Kobe only made it because he was voted by fans, while Walker earned it by being selected by the coaches!  I figured dude was a lock to get his jersey retired at that point.

Then in the mid-00's, man did Big Al look legit. 16 points, 11 rebounds, 1.5 blocks in only his 3rd season straight of a high school.  He looked like he would be the foundation of Celtics teams for the next decade.  Would love to see some polls of C's fans from '07 asking if they'd prefer to build around Big Al or Pierce, as I think many preferred Big Al.  At the time, it probably seemed like his jersey is definitely going in the rafters, right?

And up until about 6 months ago, to me at least, it seemed pretty much unfathomable that IT wouldn't get his jersey retired here.

All that to say, way too earlier to make a call on Kyrie's number hanging in the rafters.

Walker was a great player, but Kyrie is leaps and bounds already above him and that's not even a question.. Walker have had so many freakin' chances with the Celtics, it isn't even funny... Sure he had gaudy numbers, but over the next few years, it got into his head, and he eventually relied heavily on his 3 point shooting... At the age of 25/26, he was taking 7.5 and 8.0 3PA.. At
.344/.323 clip average.... That is horrendous...


NBA champion (2006)
3× NBA All-Star (1998, 2002, 2003)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1997)
NCAA champion (1996)
First-team All-SEC (1996)


NBA champion (2016)
4× NBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2014)
All-NBA Third Team (2015)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2012)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA Rising Stars Challenge MVP (2012)
NBA Three-Point Shootout champion (2013)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2014)
FIBA World Cup MVP (2014)

Now which resume looks relatively better?

Everyone knew Kyrie was a stud even after he finished college... No one was worried whether or not he could or not play in the NBA. It was a matter of his injury history in high school and college that had people worried.

what does that have to do with the Celtics?  You don't get your number in the Celtic's rafters by being a great player, otherwise Shaq would have his number up there.  You have your number in the rafters for what you do as a Celtic.  And as a Celtic, Walker is far superior to Irving at this point.  It isn't close and isn't debatable.

It also isn't debatable that Irving is better right now than Walker ever was and that Irving has a much better case for the HOF than Walker does.

So please tell me how your second paragraph doesn't contradict your first statement. Kyrie Irving is already better than Walker and he's only gonna get better. Also.. You really think Kyrie is not gonna stay a Celtic for at least for a few more years? It would make no sense for the Celtics to walk away in 2 years.

Shaq was a better player than Walker and Irving combined.  Shaq played for the Celtics.  Shaq's number isn't in the rafters nor should it be. 

I really don't understand how this is a difficult concept to understand.  Irving has played less than half a season with the Celtics.  Talk of his number in the rafters is ridiculous until he has played at least 5 seasons with the team.  He may not play more than 2.  He might get hurt.  He might just fall off a cliff in a couple of seasons and end up not worthy.

Terrible comparison.  Shaq was on his last legs when he signed.  No reasonable person would have expected his number to be retired given the situation. 

Kyrie is just entering his prime following a hall of fame first five years.  He's also having a top 10 MVP season right now.

So yeah, comparing shaq's celtic career to the potential of Kyrie's is like comparing my mother in law to Sofia Vergara.

The thing is, all of those accolades for Irving were before he was a Celtic.  They are irrelevant just like Shaq's prior career.  Irving is only signed for one more year past this one.  He easily could decide to leave then.  It is silly to speculate because so much can change.  Irving might blow out his ACL tonight and never be the same.  He might leave in free agency.  He might demand another trade.  Ainge might just trade him rather than pay him 35 million a year.  He might just age quickly and never put up the stats he would need to be in the rafters. It is just nonsense to have a discussion whether a player belongs in the rafters for a team he has played for for less than half a season.

you know you're pulling at threads when you're comparing 40 year old shaqs accomplishments to 25 year old kyrie. Shaq was virtually done when he joined us. Kyrie has a decade or so left in his prime. That's the difference. The "he can tear his ACL" argument is ridiculous. Is there a player who can't?

DeJuan Blair

TP!  Nice.