Ainge On Trading 2018 Nets Pick: "Owed It To Horford And Hayward"

[tarheelsxxiii]

IT + Crowder + Zizic + BRK pick would have been better for Hayward and Horford. Heck, trading Tatum or Brown would probably be better for Horford and Hayward.

Danny is just talking out of both sides of his mouth. First it was that Kyrie fit our timeline better, with Tatum, Brown, etc. Now it's because Danny "owed it" to Horford and Hayward (two players IT recruited).

Injured IT, young Zizic, and a BRK pick that won't be ready to contribute until 2020-21 would not have been better for Hayward and Horford. And Crowder plays Hayward's position.

Kyrie is bother younger than IT (better fits the timeline of the young guys) and in his prime (still fits the timeline of Hayward and Horford) and the most talented player moved in the deal (debate this if you like but Ainge clearly believes this and I think this is basically consensus). Ainge isn't "talking out of both sides of his mouth," it's that both things are true.

They're not both true.

Hayward signed to play with IT. Horford signed to play with IT. Suggesting that he traded IT + a good starter + a coveted trade asset that could have been used to bring in a fourth star out of a sense of obligation to Horford and Hayward is laughable.

Hayward signed to play with a healthy IT. Horford signed to play with a healthy IT. The obligation to both is a strong indication that Ainge isn't confident in Thomas' health this season.

Probably true.  And that he's a tool for making the comment.

lol @tarheelsxxiii is going to go to war with all the Isaiah doubters/haters on here 

Hah.  I don't mean to be combative, but I'm fully committed to the 'IT appreciation' cause. 

[Phantom255x]

IT + Crowder + Zizic + BRK pick would have been better for Hayward and Horford. Heck, trading Tatum or Brown would probably be better for Horford and Hayward.

Danny is just talking out of both sides of his mouth. First it was that Kyrie fit our timeline better, with Tatum, Brown, etc. Now it's because Danny "owed it" to Horford and Hayward (two players IT recruited).

Injured IT, young Zizic, and a BRK pick that won't be ready to contribute until 2020-21 would not have been better for Hayward and Horford. And Crowder plays Hayward's position.

Kyrie is bother younger than IT (better fits the timeline of the young guys) and in his prime (still fits the timeline of Hayward and Horford) and the most talented player moved in the deal (debate this if you like but Ainge clearly believes this and I think this is basically consensus). Ainge isn't "talking out of both sides of his mouth," it's that both things are true.

They're not both true.

Hayward signed to play with IT. Horford signed to play with IT. Suggesting that he traded IT + a good starter + a coveted trade asset that could have been used to bring in a fourth star out of a sense of obligation to Horford and Hayward is laughable.

Hayward signed to play with a healthy IT. Horford signed to play with a healthy IT. The obligation to both is a strong indication that Ainge isn't confident in Thomas' health this season.

Probably true.  And that he's a tool for making the comment.

lol @tarheelsxxiii is going to go to war with all the Isaiah doubters/haters on here 

Hah.  I don't mean to be combative, but I'm fully committed to the 'IT appreciation' cause.

Lol it's fine, I loved Isaiah too and didn't like the trade. But it's been a month lol, so have to start rooting for Kyrie now.

But what Ainge said here feels like an insult to Isaiah as I said in the original post.

[Ogaju]

Maybe DA is alluding to the difference between a player you signed in free agency to a longer term deal and a player that was sent to you in a trade?  I am not sure there is a lot of difference, but a little bit.  We signed Horford and Hayward as free agents to come here and compete and they were given longer contracts with the assumption that they were here to compete for rings.

For IT, Crowder they were part of trades, and traded here before there was this expectation of seriously competing.  Again, I am not sure how big the difference is, but it seems like the undercurrent of the comment.

B I N G O .... IT was never in Ainge's long term plans. He was brought here as filler in a trade to play the sixth man role. He exceeded expectations, but Danny did not get caught in the emotions. Danny is a cold-blooded, hard-nosed, executive. He did not buy into the fans emotional attachment to IT. He probably lost more sleep over how he was going to tell IT he wasn't getting a max contract than he lost over trading IT for Kyrie. That opening was a dream come true for Danny, and probably viewed it and seized it as an opportunity to rid himself of an impending headache.

[Ogaju]

If the Lakers pick is higher than the Nets pick I will tatto Danny Ainge on my arm.

Bookmarked

i hope he means tattoo a picture of ainge and not just his name!

which is worse?

[Eja117]

Hey guys. I know I just signed you both to max contracts and gave you a chance to compete in the greatest sports city in the world....but...but.....I just feel I owe you even more than that.

 Danny can tell some beautiful lies sometimes.  Good marketing.

[Ogaju]

Regardless of feelings on the trade, does anybody really believe that Danny thinks he "owes" players anything?

He traded Antoine. He traded Pierce and KG. He almost traded Ray. He traded Perk and Rondo. And Avery. And IT.

When Danny makes trades, he doesn't do it out of a sense of obligation to any individual player. His loyalty is to ownership and the franchise.

It's just an odd, obviously untrue thing to say.

He traded antoine as soon as he joined, he didnt owe him anything. Didnt recruit him, didnt bond with him, nothing. He traded KG and Pierce to a contender, with legit stars and at that time, good situation. He traded Perk and Rondo to contenders, same with IT. Sure he does trades for the organization, but he made sure these players will be in good situations, in fact from PP to IT, all of them appreciated that fact (despite being traded).

He almost sent Ray to Memphis, AB to Detroit. Neither were happy. Danny doesn't really care. He's going to make the best deal he can.

I hope  you are not arguing that this is a bad thing.

[Ogaju]

Horford and Hayward did not sign here specifically to play with any individual player, that's pure nonsense. If anything, they signed here to play with Brad Stevens.  But mostly, they signed here to play for the CELTICS.

But Ainge is also lying by saying he feels like he owed either player anything. That isn't how he has ever operated. Does he really think anyone believes him?

when was the last time Ainge landed big time free agents like Horford or Hayward? Perhaps he learned that to get this caliber of free agents you do have to make promises.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Horford and Hayward did not sign here specifically to play with any individual player, that's pure nonsense. If anything, they signed here to play with Brad Stevens.  But mostly, they signed here to play for the CELTICS.

But Ainge is also lying by saying he feels like he owed either player anything. That isn't how he has ever operated. Does he really think anyone believes him?

when was the last time Ainge landed big time free agents like Horford or Hayward? Perhaps he learned that to get this caliber of free agents you do have to make promises.

When was the last time a single player made the Celtics relevant in the NBA?  Without IT, the Celtics are bottom-feeders that wouldn't have been on the radar of any FAs.  And for the pro-trade group, Kyrie never becomes a Celtic.

[wayupnorth]

IT + Crowder + Zizic + BRK pick would have been better for Hayward and Horford. Heck, trading Tatum or Brown would probably be better for Horford and Hayward.

Danny is just talking out of both sides of his mouth. First it was that Kyrie fit our timeline better, with Tatum, Brown, etc. Now it's because Danny "owed it" to Horford and Hayward (two players IT recruited).

Injured IT, young Zizic, and a BRK pick that won't be ready to contribute until 2020-21 would not have been better for Hayward and Horford. And Crowder plays Hayward's position.

Kyrie is bother younger than IT (better fits the timeline of the young guys) and in his prime (still fits the timeline of Hayward and Horford) and the most talented player moved in the deal (debate this if you like but Ainge clearly believes this and I think this is basically consensus). Ainge isn't "talking out of both sides of his mouth," it's that both things are true.

They're not both true.

Hayward signed to play with IT. Horford signed to play with IT. Suggesting that he traded IT + a good starter + a coveted trade asset that could have been used to bring in a fourth star out of a sense of obligation to Horford and Hayward is laughable.

Hayward signed to play with a healthy IT. Horford signed to play with a healthy IT. The obligation to both is a strong indication that Ainge isn't confident in Thomas' health this season.

Probably true.  And that he's a tool for making the comment.

lol @tarheelsxxiii is going to go to war with all the Isaiah doubters/haters on here 

Hah.  I don't mean to be combative, but I'm fully committed to the 'IT appreciation' cause.

Are there many organizations in this league who woiuld have traded for Isaiah, and then designed a whole offense around him?

He is a great person, and was a great Celtic, but we did him good, and he did us good.

No reason for anyone to be salty, and there are only a few around here who didn't appreciate what IT brought

[tarheelsxxiii]

IT + Crowder + Zizic + BRK pick would have been better for Hayward and Horford. Heck, trading Tatum or Brown would probably be better for Horford and Hayward.

Danny is just talking out of both sides of his mouth. First it was that Kyrie fit our timeline better, with Tatum, Brown, etc. Now it's because Danny "owed it" to Horford and Hayward (two players IT recruited).

Injured IT, young Zizic, and a BRK pick that won't be ready to contribute until 2020-21 would not have been better for Hayward and Horford. And Crowder plays Hayward's position.

Kyrie is bother younger than IT (better fits the timeline of the young guys) and in his prime (still fits the timeline of Hayward and Horford) and the most talented player moved in the deal (debate this if you like but Ainge clearly believes this and I think this is basically consensus). Ainge isn't "talking out of both sides of his mouth," it's that both things are true.

They're not both true.

Hayward signed to play with IT. Horford signed to play with IT. Suggesting that he traded IT + a good starter + a coveted trade asset that could have been used to bring in a fourth star out of a sense of obligation to Horford and Hayward is laughable.

Hayward signed to play with a healthy IT. Horford signed to play with a healthy IT. The obligation to both is a strong indication that Ainge isn't confident in Thomas' health this season.

Probably true.  And that he's a tool for making the comment.

lol @tarheelsxxiii is going to go to war with all the Isaiah doubters/haters on here 

Hah.  I don't mean to be combative, but I'm fully committed to the 'IT appreciation' cause.

Are there many organizations in this league who woiuld have traded for Isaiah, and then designed a whole offense around him?

He is a great person, and was a great Celtic, but we did him good, and he did us good.

No reason for anyone to be salty, and there are only a few around here who didn't appreciate what IT brought

Ainge should and has gotten proper credit for that. 

But I don't see it like you do.  In my view, after being given the opportunity, IT was exploited to his personal detriment.  Would you want to work in an environment where you were used for your short-term hyper-productivity at your personal detriment? 

He's in a rut now because he responded with integrity to the unrealistic expectation that he be a superhero for Boston.  He played through every form of pain, and lobbied for the organization in every way possible.  And then, as soon as that lead to a question about his future productivity, he was dumped. 

To add insult to injury, we read this quote from Ainge.  I don't see how any one could interpret this as less than extremely disrespectful.  Again, unless IT was an undisclosed locker-room cancer, it's a shameful act.   


Edit: I'm not Isaiah's mom.  I just find this quote repulsive. 

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

IT + Crowder + Zizic + BRK pick would have been better for Hayward and Horford. Heck, trading Tatum or Brown would probably be better for Horford and Hayward.

Danny is just talking out of both sides of his mouth. First it was that Kyrie fit our timeline better, with Tatum, Brown, etc. Now it's because Danny "owed it" to Horford and Hayward (two players IT recruited).

Injured IT, young Zizic, and a BRK pick that won't be ready to contribute until 2020-21 would not have been better for Hayward and Horford. And Crowder plays Hayward's position.

Kyrie is bother younger than IT (better fits the timeline of the young guys) and in his prime (still fits the timeline of Hayward and Horford) and the most talented player moved in the deal (debate this if you like but Ainge clearly believes this and I think this is basically consensus). Ainge isn't "talking out of both sides of his mouth," it's that both things are true.

They're not both true.

Hayward signed to play with IT. Horford signed to play with IT. Suggesting that he traded IT + a good starter + a coveted trade asset that could have been used to bring in a fourth star out of a sense of obligation to Horford and Hayward is laughable.

Hayward signed to play with a healthy IT. Horford signed to play with a healthy IT. The obligation to both is a strong indication that Ainge isn't confident in Thomas' health this season.

Probably true.  And that he's a tool for making the comment.

lol @tarheelsxxiii is going to go to war with all the Isaiah doubters/haters on here 

Hah.  I don't mean to be combative, but I'm fully committed to the 'IT appreciation' cause.

Are there many organizations in this league who woiuld have traded for Isaiah, and then designed a whole offense around him?

He is a great person, and was a great Celtic, but we did him good, and he did us good.

No reason for anyone to be salty, and there are only a few around here who didn't appreciate what IT brought

Ainge should and has gotten proper credit for that. 

But I don't see it like you do.  In my view, after being given the opportunity, IT was exploited to his personal detriment.  Would you want to work in an environment where you were used for your short-term hyper-productivity at your personal detriment? 

He's in a rut now because he responded with integrity to the unrealistic expectation that he be a superhero for Boston.  He played through every form of pain, and lobbied for the organization in every way possible.  And then, as soon as that lead to a question about his future productivity, he was dumped. 

To add insult to injury, we read this quote from Ainge.  I don't see how any one could interpret this as less than extremely disrespectful.  Again, unless IT was an undisclosed locker-room cancer, it's a shameful act.   


Edit: I'm not Isaiah's mom.  I just find this quote repulsive.

You can have my hip right now, please don't forget to forward IT4's checks to me. This isn't slavery, he chose to go out there! Let's not anoint him a saint for it!

[saltlover]

IT + Crowder + Zizic + BRK pick would have been better for Hayward and Horford. Heck, trading Tatum or Brown would probably be better for Horford and Hayward.

Danny is just talking out of both sides of his mouth. First it was that Kyrie fit our timeline better, with Tatum, Brown, etc. Now it's because Danny "owed it" to Horford and Hayward (two players IT recruited).

Injured IT, young Zizic, and a BRK pick that won't be ready to contribute until 2020-21 would not have been better for Hayward and Horford. And Crowder plays Hayward's position.

Kyrie is bother younger than IT (better fits the timeline of the young guys) and in his prime (still fits the timeline of Hayward and Horford) and the most talented player moved in the deal (debate this if you like but Ainge clearly believes this and I think this is basically consensus). Ainge isn't "talking out of both sides of his mouth," it's that both things are true.

They're not both true.

Hayward signed to play with IT. Horford signed to play with IT. Suggesting that he traded IT + a good starter + a coveted trade asset that could have been used to bring in a fourth star out of a sense of obligation to Horford and Hayward is laughable.

Hayward signed to play with a healthy IT. Horford signed to play with a healthy IT. The obligation to both is a strong indication that Ainge isn't confident in Thomas' health this season.

Probably true.  And that he's a tool for making the comment.

lol @tarheelsxxiii is going to go to war with all the Isaiah doubters/haters on here 

Hah.  I don't mean to be combative, but I'm fully committed to the 'IT appreciation' cause.

Are there many organizations in this league who woiuld have traded for Isaiah, and then designed a whole offense around him?

He is a great person, and was a great Celtic, but we did him good, and he did us good.

No reason for anyone to be salty, and there are only a few around here who didn't appreciate what IT brought

I respectfully disagree with the bolded.

[SHAQATTACK]

IT + Crowder + Zizic + BRK pick would have been better for Hayward and Horford. Heck, trading Tatum or Brown would probably be better for Horford and Hayward.

Danny is just talking out of both sides of his mouth. First it was that Kyrie fit our timeline better, with Tatum, Brown, etc. Now it's because Danny "owed it" to Horford and Hayward (two players IT recruited).

Injured IT, young Zizic, and a BRK pick that won't be ready to contribute until 2020-21 would not have been better for Hayward and Horford. And Crowder plays Hayward's position.

Kyrie is bother younger than IT (better fits the timeline of the young guys) and in his prime (still fits the timeline of Hayward and Horford) and the most talented player moved in the deal (debate this if you like but Ainge clearly believes this and I think this is basically consensus). Ainge isn't "talking out of both sides of his mouth," it's that both things are true.

They're not both true.

Hayward signed to play with IT. Horford signed to play with IT. Suggesting that he traded IT + a good starter + a coveted trade asset that could have been used to bring in a fourth star out of a sense of obligation to Horford and Hayward is laughable.

Hayward signed to play with a healthy IT. Horford signed to play with a healthy IT. The obligation to both is a strong indication that Ainge isn't confident in Thomas' health this season.

Probably true.  And that he's a tool for making the comment.

lol @tarheelsxxiii is going to go to war with all the Isaiah doubters/haters on here 

Hah.  I don't mean to be combative, but I'm fully committed to the 'IT appreciation' cause.

Are there many organizations in this league who woiuld have traded for Isaiah, and then designed a whole offense around him?

He is a great person, and was a great Celtic, but we did him good, and he did us good.

No reason for anyone to be salty, and there are only a few around here who didn't appreciate what IT brought

Ainge should and has gotten proper credit for that. 

But I don't see it like you do.  In my view, after being given the opportunity, IT was exploited to his personal detriment.  Would you want to work in an environment where you were used for your short-term hyper-productivity at your personal detriment? 

He's in a rut now because he responded with integrity to the unrealistic expectation that he be a superhero for Boston.  He played through every form of pain, and lobbied for the organization in every way possible.  And then, as soon as that lead to a question about his future productivity, he was dumped. 

To add insult to injury, we read this quote from Ainge.  I don't see how any one could interpret this as less than extremely disrespectful.  Again, unless IT was an undisclosed locker-room cancer, it's a shameful act.   


Edit: I'm not Isaiah's mom.  I just find this quote repulsive.

You can have my hip right now, please don't forget to forward IT4's checks to me. This isn't slavery, he chose to go out there! Let's not anoint him a saint for it!

LOL. ....great post .     IT has a good ring .....Saint Thomas .......Celtic Hobit

[Eddie20]

IT + Crowder + Zizic + BRK pick would have been better for Hayward and Horford. Heck, trading Tatum or Brown would probably be better for Horford and Hayward.

Danny is just talking out of both sides of his mouth. First it was that Kyrie fit our timeline better, with Tatum, Brown, etc. Now it's because Danny "owed it" to Horford and Hayward (two players IT recruited).

Injured IT, young Zizic, and a BRK pick that won't be ready to contribute until 2020-21 would not have been better for Hayward and Horford. And Crowder plays Hayward's position.

Kyrie is bother younger than IT (better fits the timeline of the young guys) and in his prime (still fits the timeline of Hayward and Horford) and the most talented player moved in the deal (debate this if you like but Ainge clearly believes this and I think this is basically consensus). Ainge isn't "talking out of both sides of his mouth," it's that both things are true.

They're not both true.

Hayward signed to play with IT. Horford signed to play with IT. Suggesting that he traded IT + a good starter + a coveted trade asset that could have been used to bring in a fourth star out of a sense of obligation to Horford and Hayward is laughable.

Hayward signed to play with a healthy IT. Horford signed to play with a healthy IT. The obligation to both is a strong indication that Ainge isn't confident in Thomas' health this season.

Hayward signed after IT's injury.

I understand, but don't you think Ainge had an idea of the severity of Thomas' injury during the time of the signing? If I'm Ainge, I wouldn't disclose any information on Thomas' bum hip to Hayward and risk him not coming due to the uncertainty surrounding the injury.

I mean, Hayward had to have known Isaiah would at least miss some time.

If Kyrie wasn't available and they held on to Isaiah and it turns out he missed a bunch of months... relationship would NOT be good between Hayward and Ainge I assume.

Yeah, it would seem odd to actively mislead a max free agent.

So you think it's logical that Ainge fully disclosed everything about the hip and Hayward still signed here? If so, then the argument that one of the main reasons Hayward signed was to play with Thomas loses a ton of validity. Misleading and not disclosing are two different things. If the injury didn't come up during negotiations, then there would be no reason to bring it up.

Once Hayward signed he felt he owed them. Why? Perhaps because he felt some guilt for not bringing it up during the said negotiations and didn't want to stricken them with a gimpy IT.

[Fireworks_Boom!]

I think you can be equally appreciative/regretful about losing Isaiah Thomas/Jae Crowder/Brooklyn Pick as you can be excited about Kyrie Irving/Gordon Hayward/Jayson Tatum/Lakers Pick.

IT was given an opportunity on a team flush with lower end talent to be given the ball often and be the go-to-scorer. He earned every point he got and as a result will get himself paid in FA next offseason. Good for him. He embodied everything it means to be a Celtic. Happy for him and hope he gets paid. But IT came with his limitations which we are all familiar with. Short, defense and isolation offense.

Jae Crowder is the best bargain contract in the league. No doubt he is a wonderful player on a championship team who can play good defense and be a scorer off the bench. His cost-control is a huge asset for the Cavs and they're gonna love having him.

Brooklyn 2018 pick should convert inside the top 5 this year. That is a huge loss. But we replaced that (hopefully) with the Lakers pick which we cross our fingers converts in the same range. I do think Brooklyn has nothing to lose for and have improved enough to be better than at least the following teams: Knicks, Hawks, Bulls, Suns and Lakers. Never mind the Magic, Pacers, Kings Sixers (who will take time to put it together and who knows what injuries they will sustain) and Mavericks.

Enter Kyrie Irving: a 25 year old superstar with a list of accolades that a retiring veteran would be proud to boast:

1. NBA Rookie of the Year
2. All NBA Team
3. Olympic Gold Medalist
4. All Star MVP
5. NBA Champion
6. 4x All Star.

I think people underestimate this kids potential to be the guy. I think the league and many on this board under-esimtate the team that has been built this offseason. With Gordon Hayward and Kyrie Irving, we checked two boxes of having two go-to-scorers and a ball handler/floor general with height. Jayson Tatum could be the next superstar in this league. He has the look (Paul George replica) and the Lakers pick could convert as a top 5 pick in a draft that is 5 players deep with all star level talent (much of which are bigs who could develop behind Horford while we go for a championship in his prime years).

Combine all this with the best coach in the league...I'm gonna make a prediction. Celtics = 2018 NBA Champions! Sure I wear green tinted glasses but this team is flush with potential.

Lets look at Golden State whom we would have to match up against:

Player vs. Player (Advantage)
PG: Irving vs. Curry (BOS)
SG: Brown vs. Thompson (BOS)
SF: Hayward vs. Durant (BOS)
PF: Morris vs. Green (BOS)
C: Horford vs. Pachulia (BOS)

Boston clean sweep!