Can Brad Stevens help Kyrie Irving become a top 5-10 NBA player? Still improving

[Granath]

He already is

Espn ranking is a joke

AHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, you're serious?

AHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Who has played better in the finals

Kyrie or Curry?

Who has played better in the playoffs

RW or Kyrie?

Harden or Kyrie?

Kyrie is a top 2-3 closer in the league. Tested at the highest stress level (finals).  That is worth a ton

Cant be overlooked

Curry. I'll take the guy who averaged the near triple double over Kyrie any day and twice on Sunday.

Who is the guy who gets a lot of open looks because the greatest player of the NBA is getting double and triple teamed?
Who is the guy who can't even lead his team to a .500 record without that greatest player?
Whose plus/minus rating (-8) without Lebron on the court was worse than the 26 win Lakers last year?
Who was the worst defender in the NBA finals?
Who finished 12th in real plus minus among point guards last year?
Who finished a pedestrian 14th in VORP among guards last year at 2.9?
Who finished in the bottom 20% of the NBA in defending the pick and roll on BOTH the ball handler and the roll man?
Who is one of only 10 guards in the NBA who gave up more than a 50% shooting percentage to his opponent in 1 on 1 situations?
Who has two of only six seasons in the history of the NBA when a guard has a 30% or greater usage percentage and defensive win shares of 1.5 or less?
Whose assist to turnover ratio drops to an awful 1.78 when Lebron isn't on the court with him?

Let me spoil the ending for you: you won’t find an advanced statistic that sings the praises of Irving.

Can't be overlooked.

PS - If you want to base your opinion on isolated incidents, then I guess Avery Bradley is better than Jimmy Butler based on games 5 and 6 of last year's playoffs. Right? You're talking about specific situations and trying to base your opinion on those isolated incidents. I'm talking about aggregated, measurable performance over the course of a season. Which one is a better measure of the entire picture?

[Somebody]

I hope Stevens can do it.

[IDreamCeltics]

Steph Curry blossomed into a new level around age 25. Took a major jump. Some of that was him, some might be with coaching upgrade from Mark Jackson to Steve Kerr. Oh, and Curry was injury prone as well.

I'd like to believe Kyrie has another gear to reach in the right system, under a better coach like Stevens. Shooting percentages should improve with better looks and other aspects of his game could rise within the system.

He's got some tie to Boston with Daddy Drederick and BU, so his potential of resigning could be pretty high.

I'm actually really curious about one of your points. What system results in better / more open looks, playing in Brad's offense with Hayward and Horford, or Lue's with Lebron and Love?

That will be interesting to watch.

Roy, this is a highly misunderstood concept.  In 2016 the Cavs were ranked #2 in the NBA in 3 pointers attempted per game and #1 in 3 pt%.

In 2015 They were ranked 3rd overall in the NBA in both categories.

I have no idea who started the "the Cavs have inferior spacing to the Celtics" myth, but it's patently ridiculous and there's no stat that supports it.

The Cavs have been a Championship level team for the last three seasons because they consistently had what was among the best spacing and shooting in the NBA.

If anyone wants to double check the team stats this is a good site.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/three-point-pct?date=2016-06-20

[Tr1boy]

He already is

Espn ranking is a joke

AHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, you're serious?

AHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Who has played better in the finals

Kyrie or Curry?

Who has played better in the playoffs

RW or Kyrie?

Harden or Kyrie?

Kyrie is a top 2-3 closer in the league. Tested at the highest stress level (finals).  That is worth a ton

Cant be overlooked

Curry. I'll take the guy who averaged the near triple double over Kyrie any day and twice on Sunday.

Who is the guy who gets a lot of open looks because the greatest player of the NBA is getting double and triple teamed?
Who is the guy who can't even lead his team to a .500 record without that greatest player?
Whose plus/minus rating (-8) without Lebron on the court was worse than the 26 win Lakers last year?
Who was the worst defender in the NBA finals?
Who finished 12th in real plus minus among point guards last year?
Who finished a pedestrian 14th in VORP among guards last year at 2.9?
Who finished in the bottom 20% of the NBA in defending the pick and roll on BOTH the ball handler and the roll man?
Who is one of only 10 guards in the NBA who gave up more than a 50% shooting percentage to his opponent in 1 on 1 situations?
Who has two of only six seasons in the history of the NBA when a guard has a 30% or greater usage percentage and defensive win shares of 1.5 or less?
Whose assist to turnover ratio drops to an awful 1.78 when Lebron isn't on the court with him?

Let me spoil the ending for you: you won’t find an advanced statistic that sings the praises of Irving.

Can't be overlooked.

PS - If you want to base your opinion on isolated incidents, then I guess Avery Bradley is better than Jimmy Butler based on games 5 and 6 of last year's playoffs. Right? You're talking about specific situations and trying to base your opinion on those isolated incidents. I'm talking about aggregated, measurable performance over the course of a season. Which one is a better measure of the entire picture?

Who was the worst defenders in the finals?  Curry

How did he defend Irving? BUT how did Irving defend Curry?

Irving as a 19 year old had to try to carry a team. List me how many players have been able to do this/excel.

He has had zero chance to try this on his own as a mature player...yet you keep bringing this up.

Yes he has been fortunate to play with Lebron...but he didnt design it.... Again he was fortunate and was able to take adv/excell at the highest level

No what if this what if that...

Open looks? How many open looks did he have vs the Celts in game 4 where he singlehandedly took over? Also for game 7 vs GSW in 2016.  Did he have a open look when he buried the game winning 3 in Currys face?

Kyrie is not a perfect player but he is already a top 10 player

[max215]

He already is

Espn ranking is a joke

AHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, you're serious?

AHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Who has played better in the finals

Kyrie or Curry?

Who has played better in the playoffs

RW or Kyrie?

Harden or Kyrie?

Kyrie is a top 2-3 closer in the league. Tested at the highest stress level (finals).  That is worth a ton

Cant be overlooked

Little known fact: triboy has Robert Horry in his top-10 players of all time.

[Tr1boy]

He already is

Espn ranking is a joke

AHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, you're serious?

AHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Who has played better in the finals

Kyrie or Curry?

Who has played better in the playoffs

RW or Kyrie?

Harden or Kyrie?

Kyrie is a top 2-3 closer in the league. Tested at the highest stress level (finals).  That is worth a ton

Cant be overlooked

Little known fact: triboy has Robert Horry in his top-10 players of all time.

Yes he is. In the specific category of a role player who had the ability to make clutch shots

Thats it

[Tr1boy]

Curry is a top player of course... But in the finals if people were designing their lineup

Would you have curry or irving??

Curry is a finals choker.  He cant handle the pressure like Irving can

[chambers]

Curry is a top player of course... But in the finals if people were designing their lineup

Would you have curry or irving??

Curry is a finals choker.  He cant handle the pressure like Irving can

I think 9 out of 10 people would still take Curry. He's the better player. He's an MVP caliber player.
Kyrie isn't that good yet, but he's got 3 years get as close to Steph as he can.
He's going to improve so much with Brad Stevens designing an offense around him and teaching him the game, and I think there's a chance he could be a top 10 player like Curry/Chris Paul.

[Tr1boy]

Curry is a top player of course... But in the finals if people were designing their lineup

Would you have curry or irving??

Curry is a finals choker.  He cant handle the pressure like Irving can

I think 9 out of 10 people would still take Curry. He's the better player. He's an MVP caliber player.
Kyrie isn't that good yet, but he's got 3 years get as close to Steph as he can.
He's going to improve so much with Brad Stevens designing an offense around him and teaching him the game, and I think there's a chance he could be a top 10 player like Curry/Chris Paul.

What does this have to do with who you rather have in the finals?

Mvp of regular season ball vs finals execution

Irving has shown you finals execution year after year

[chambers]

Curry is a top player of course... But in the finals if people were designing their lineup

Would you have curry or irving??

Curry is a finals choker.  He cant handle the pressure like Irving can

I think 9 out of 10 people would still take Curry. He's the better player. He's an MVP caliber player.
Kyrie isn't that good yet, but he's got 3 years get as close to Steph as he can.
He's going to improve so much with Brad Stevens designing an offense around him and teaching him the game, and I think there's a chance he could be a top 10 player like Curry/Chris Paul.

What does this have to do with who you rather have in the finals?

Mvp of regular season ball vs finals execution

Irving has shown you finals execution year after year

Irving is amazing. I love his game and I think he's going to be even better- much better than most people expect.
But Steph Curry has won a championship as the best player on that championship team, with an MVP season. He has been the biggest phenom in basketball since Kevin Durant and Lebron James from a player ability/greatness perspective to a level of crazed fandom not seen very often towards small, weaker, unathletic combo guards.
He's probably going to end up as one of the greatest guards of all time when everything is said and done and is also a sure fire hall of famer at age 27. So no, I would rather Curry in any game.
He was the best player on the best team in the world. That's the guy I want in the NBA finals.

[Tr1boy]

Curry is a top player of course... But in the finals if people were designing their lineup

Would you have curry or irving??

Curry is a finals choker.  He cant handle the pressure like Irving can

I think 9 out of 10 people would still take Curry. He's the better player. He's an MVP caliber player.
Kyrie isn't that good yet, but he's got 3 years get as close to Steph as he can.
He's going to improve so much with Brad Stevens designing an offense around him and teaching him the game, and I think there's a chance he could be a top 10 player like Curry/Chris Paul.

What does this have to do with who you rather have in the finals?

Mvp of regular season ball vs finals execution

Irving has shown you finals execution year after year

Irving is amazing. I love his game and I think he's going to be even better- much better than most people expect.
But Steph Curry has won a championship as the best player on that championship team, with an MVP season. He has been the biggest phenom in basketball since Kevin Durant and Lebron James from a player ability/greatness perspective to a level of crazed fandom not seen very often towards small, weaker, unathletic combo guards.
He's probably going to end up as one of the greatest guards of all time when everything is said and done and is also a sure fire hall of famer at age 27. So no, I would rather Curry in any game.
He was the best player on the best team in the world. That's the guy I want in the NBA finals.

Fine... He will be in the HOF I agree

I would still choose Irving over Curry myself ...but thats me

[chambers]

Curry is a top player of course... But in the finals if people were designing their lineup

Would you have curry or irving??

Curry is a finals choker.  He cant handle the pressure like Irving can

I think 9 out of 10 people would still take Curry. He's the better player. He's an MVP caliber player.
Kyrie isn't that good yet, but he's got 3 years get as close to Steph as he can.
He's going to improve so much with Brad Stevens designing an offense around him and teaching him the game, and I think there's a chance he could be a top 10 player like Curry/Chris Paul.

What does this have to do with who you rather have in the finals?

Mvp of regular season ball vs finals execution

Irving has shown you finals execution year after year

Irving is amazing. I love his game and I think he's going to be even better- much better than most people expect.
But Steph Curry has won a championship as the best player on that championship team, with an MVP season. He has been the biggest phenom in basketball since Kevin Durant and Lebron James from a player ability/greatness perspective to a level of crazed fandom not seen very often towards small, weaker, unathletic combo guards.
He's probably going to end up as one of the greatest guards of all time when everything is said and done and is also a sure fire hall of famer at age 27. So no, I would rather Curry in any game.
He was the best player on the best team in the world. That's the guy I want in the NBA finals.

Fine... He will be in the HOF I agree

I would still choose Irving over Curry myself ...but thats me

Don't worry, like you I am one of the Celtics bloggers who is more confident in Irving's abilities than most here. I think Danny Ainge made an excellent trade and a very smart gamble in pairing a near-superstar level player/scorer who's still 3 years away from his prime and peak years with a genius coach who has made guys like Evan Turner, Jordan Crawford, Kelly Olynyk, Avery Bradley, Jonas Jerebko- all better basketball players. He turned IT from a no name into an MVP candidate with his playbooks. He even said to Isaiah that he was building the offense around HIM-before he even played for the Celtics.
Brad Stevens genius is just so overlooked on this forum and especially in this brilliant trade in general.

Brad Stevens is going to take him to another level IMO, and turn him into a 'definitive' top 7-10 NBA player. If we got really really lucky he might even be the next Tony Parker/Steve Nash/Steph Curry Caliber guy.

So much upside to this move and so much upside with Kyrie. Most decorated player 25 years or younger in the NBA. He will be a key factor in getting Anthony Davis as a free agent too.
Such a fantastic move for our future.

[green_bballers13]

Curry is a top player of course... But in the finals if people were designing their lineup

Would you have curry or irving??

Curry is a finals choker.  He cant handle the pressure like Irving can

I think 9 out of 10 people would still take Curry. He's the better player. He's an MVP caliber player.
Kyrie isn't that good yet, but he's got 3 years get as close to Steph as he can.
He's going to improve so much with Brad Stevens designing an offense around him and teaching him the game, and I think there's a chance he could be a top 10 player like Curry/Chris Paul.

What does this have to do with who you rather have in the finals?

Mvp of regular season ball vs finals execution

Irving has shown you finals execution year after year

Irving is amazing. I love his game and I think he's going to be even better- much better than most people expect.
But Steph Curry has won a championship as the best player on that championship team, with an MVP season. He has been the biggest phenom in basketball since Kevin Durant and Lebron James from a player ability/greatness perspective to a level of crazed fandom not seen very often towards small, weaker, unathletic combo guards.
He's probably going to end up as one of the greatest guards of all time when everything is said and done and is also a sure fire hall of famer at age 27. So no, I would rather Curry in any game.
He was the best player on the best team in the world. That's the guy I want in the NBA finals.

Fine... He will be in the HOF I agree

I would still choose Irving over Curry myself ...but thats me

Don't worry, like you I am one of the Celtics bloggers who is more confident in Irving's abilities than most here. I think Danny Ainge made an excellent trade and a very smart gamble in pairing a near-superstar level player/scorer who's still 3 years away from his prime and peak years.
Brad Stevens is going to take him to another level IMO, and turn him into a 'definitive' top 7-10 NBA player. If we got really really lucky he might even be the next Tony Parker/Steve Nash/Steph Curry Caliber guy.

So much upside to this move and so much upside with Kyrie. Most decorated player 25 years or younger in the NBA. He will be a key factor in getting Anthony Davis as a free agent too.
Such a fantastic move for our future.

Steph Curry will prob. go down as the greatest shooter in NBA history.

Kyrie Irving is no Steph Curry.

Kyrie should be a borderline top 5 pg, which is good b/c its an important and deep position. Most nights, he will have an offensive advantage over the guy across from him. If he can improve as a playmaker/defender, he could jump into the first tier of PGs with Steph and Westbrook.

[Phantom255x]

He already is

Espn ranking is a joke

[max215]

Curry is a top player of course... But in the finals if people were designing their lineup

Would you have curry or irving??

Curry is a finals choker.  He cant handle the pressure like Irving can

Irving's 2017 Finals: 29/4/4 on 56% TS with -7.7 NetRTG
Curry's 2017 Finals: 27/8/9 on 62% TS with +7.8 NetRTG

I'm sorry that facts don't fit in line with your narrative.