Can Brad Stevens help Kyrie Irving become a top 5-10 NBA player? Still improving

[chambers]

Can Kyrie become a top 5 NBA player under coach Stevens?
Irving is exactly one year older than Anthony Davis. He's young. Really young.

Kyrie is more than a year younger than Kawahi Leonard.
He's 4 years younger than Steph Curry, 2 years younger than Klay Thompson, 3 years younger than Kevin Durant.

Part of the reason this trade was so good for us was Kyrie's age and remaining potential. He hasn't peaked yet. He's never been coached by anyone like Stevens or had anyone to design an offense around him the way Stevens can and will.

Danny obviously feels that even if he doesn't improve, he's basically an IT replacement with championship/clutch experience, locked up for years with years before he reaches his actual 'prime years' but there is huge upside in this trade for us.
People are talking about the upside potential we lost by trading away the Brooklyn pick but Irving has NBA superstar potential and perhaps even MVP potential by the age of 27/28 years old.

I think this idea is being severely overlooked when critquing Ainge on the decision to trade away the Brooklyn pick. This trade is a can't lose move.

We can't lose but we can win huge if Kyrie gets even better.

[max215]

This trade is a can't lose move.

What if Kyrie is just the same player he's been for the first 6 years of his career? What if Kyrie gets seriously injured (something that's happened many times before)? What if Isaiah returns to the level he played at last year? What if the Cavs win the lottery? What if Kyrie leaves in 2 years? There are many, many ways for this to be a "lose" move.

[saltlover]

I disagree that this has been overlooked. I personally believe that Irving has to become a top 10 player for this deal to work out.  Ainge gave out top-10 player value.  Presumably that's what he saw in Irving.  Hopefully he gets to that level, this year.

[Tr1boy]

He already is

Espn ranking is a joke

[Roy H.]

Top five? I don't think so.

Low teens / high single digits?  Yes, especially if we're talking a single season. The guy he's replacing was voted among the top 10 last year, so for all of our sake I hope so.

[Fred Roberts]

Steph Curry blossomed into a new level around age 25. Took a major jump. Some of that was him, some might be with coaching upgrade from Mark Jackson to Steve Kerr. Oh, and Curry was injury prone as well.

I'd like to believe Kyrie has another gear to reach in the right system, under a better coach like Stevens. Shooting percentages should improve with better looks and other aspects of his game could rise within the system.

He's got some tie to Boston with Daddy Drederick and BU, so his potential of resigning could be pretty high.

[Roy H.]

Steph Curry blossomed into a new level around age 25. Took a major jump. Some of that was him, some might be with coaching upgrade from Mark Jackson to Steve Kerr. Oh, and Curry was injury prone as well.

I'd like to believe Kyrie has another gear to reach in the right system, under a better coach like Stevens. Shooting percentages should improve with better looks and other aspects of his game could rise within the system.

He's got some tie to Boston with Daddy Drederick and BU, so his potential of resigning could be pretty high.

I'm actually really curious about one of your points. What system results in better / more open looks, playing in Brad's offense with Hayward and Horford, or Lue's with Lebron and Love?

That will be interesting to watch.

[Big333223]

I'd say Kyrie has as much or more raw basketball skill than Steph Curry and when he's played alongside the best he's looked like one of the best. So can he reach those heights? Yeah, if a lot of things go the right way, I think he's capable of it.

[Roy H.]

I'd say Kyrie has as much or more raw basketball skill than Steph Curry and when he's played alongside the best he's looked like one of the best. So can he reach those heights? Yeah, if a lot of things go the right way, I think he's capable of it.

I don't think he's got Steph's range, release or accuracy.

[mmmmm]

Steph Curry blossomed into a new level around age 25. Took a major jump. Some of that was him, some might be with coaching upgrade from Mark Jackson to Steve Kerr. Oh, and Curry was injury prone as well.

I'd like to believe Kyrie has another gear to reach in the right system, under a better coach like Stevens. Shooting percentages should improve with better looks and other aspects of his game could rise within the system.

He's got some tie to Boston with Daddy Drederick and BU, so his potential of resigning could be pretty high.

Well, arguably, the main thing that happened with Steph at age 24-25 is that he (a) got his ankles finally back to healthy and (b) started wearing Zamst AD-DX braces to protect them.   Since he started wearing those, he has stayed relatively healthy and his already beautiful shot has been able to simply blossom.

I don't think it makes sense when people aggregate Steph's pre-25 numbers in a lump and compare them to Kyrie's pre-25 numbers.   Because Curry was playing on painful ankles.   Sheesh, he sprained those noodles 7 times in one year!

'Not saying that Kyrie can't have his own improvements to his game.  But I just don't see any parallels to Steph.

[mmmmm]

For Kyrie to take that 'next leap' he's going to have to realize a jump in numbers, either scoring more per game or in assisting more per game or both.

In order to score more, he'll have to either take more shots or shoot more efficiently (or both).

He already was 6th in the NBA in FGA/game.  He was the highest USG player in CLE and took the most shots there.  He also took just slightly more FGA/game than Isaiah took here and the identical FGA/possession as IT (even though the latter was pretty much the only real offensive weapon here last year).  I don't know if it is reasonable for us to expect Kyrie to take more shots this year than Isaiah took last year, when we've added another elite scorer like Hayward who should be getting far more shots than say, Avery did last year.   I mean, if Hayward isn't taking more shots per possession than Avery took last year, then something is broken in our offense.   So I'm just not seeing a lot of room for more shots for Kyrie to take.

So in order for him to score more points, it really has to come from improvements in efficiency.    So the question is:  Can he score more efficiently in this offense, playing off Hayward & Horford than he did in CLE, playing off Lebron and Love?

As far as assists go, again, the question is one of touches.   Brad's offense relies heavily on passes from front-court facilitators.  He's made a point of running his offense through 'point forwards' like Sully, Evan Turner, Kelly Olynyk and of course, Al Horford.   Last year especially, down the stretch the offense was more and more effectively run through Horford's capable hands.   Isaiah played a LOT off the ball because of Al's great passing skills and I don't see why Kyrie wouldn't continue to do that as well.   And we've added another great passing forward in Gordon Hayward.

Kyrie's touch and passing rates were not really very different from Isaiah's last year.   I was fully expecting Thomas' touches (and passes and shots) to all go down slightly with the addition of Hayward.   I don't see why we should expect Kyrie's to go up much.

So, basically, the only realistic avenue for dramatic improvement in Kyrie's game has to be through improved scoring efficiency.  He has to elevate his TS% from the .560-.580 level that it has been through most of his career up closer to or above the .600 level where the MVP candidates like Curry, Harden (and last year at least, Thomas) play.   He's got to change his shot profile.

He's got to do that by taking fewer mid-range 2PT shots.   He basically needs to 'be like Thomas' and drive more (getting to the FT line more) and take more 3PT shots.   He has the ability to do both those things more.  So this is not an unreasonable hope.

[Celtics4ever]

CBS will improve his game if he buys in.  That is a huge "if"and I think Ainge and CBS talked to Coach K extensively.   The guy seems to want being here did anyone see him talking to his dad about the Celtics Jersey.

https://clutchpoints.com/celtics-news-kyrie-irving-gives-his-father-his-press-conference-jersey/

[smokeablount]

This trade is a can't lose move.

What if Kyrie is just the same player he's been for the first 6 years of his career? What if Kyrie gets seriously injured (something that's happened many times before)? What if Isaiah returns to the level he played at last year? What if the Cavs win the lottery? What if Kyrie leaves in 2 years? There are many, many ways for this to be a "lose" move.

Ok, but how likely are these things?  Better yet, name a single guard in his 20's that we acquired from another team or via free agency who served as a distributor for us, and didn't get better.  Not saying there isn't one, but Jordan Crawford, Evan Turner, and IT make me feel pretty [dang] confident that Kyrie's game is going to improve as early as this year. 

[smokeablount]

For Kyrie to take that 'next leap' he's going to have to realize a jump in numbers, either scoring more per game or in assisting more per game or both.

This is not the case, unless by numbers you also broadly meant to include advanced defensive metrics.  Which I assume you didn't, because if you did, saying 'a jump in numbers' means that you basically said 'for kyrie to get better, he's going to have to get better.'

ESPN rated Kyrie as top 16 last year and #25 this year, despite making major strides between those rankings coming out.  Let's meet in the middle and say he's #20.  How much better would Kyrie be if he became just a slightly above average defender?

Well, ESPN had Jimmy Butler at #11.  The same Jimmy Butler who played on all star team with the league MVP and DPOY... and IIRC they didn't make the conference finals a single time in a multi-year span, playing in the worst conference in history.  The same Jimmy Butler that put up great stats, but played on a #8 seed in the East and got outplayed in the clutch by the 3rd best player on our team, a guy who never has been and probably never will be an all star.

Butler is well above 'above average' at defense, but less offensively talented and much less accomplished in the playoffs than Kyrie... and we're only talking about Kyrie making a leap on D and considering nothing else...

So yeah, if Jimmy Butler can be considered a top 11 player, then CBS can help Kyrie become a top 10 player.  Will it happen?  Not sure.  Can it happen?  100% it can happen. 

[Big333223]

I'd say Kyrie has as much or more raw basketball skill than Steph Curry and when he's played alongside the best he's looked like one of the best. So can he reach those heights? Yeah, if a lot of things go the right way, I think he's capable of it.

I don't think he's got Steph's range, release or accuracy.

That's probably true. I'd say Kyrie is as close as anyone in the league, though.

I also think Kyrie is a better finisher, stronger, and slightly more athletic (although only slightly).