We are going to be one of the WORST defensive teams next year......

[nickagneta]

If we are better than last year's team defensively it won't be by much. We were very average last year but when the team wanted to bring it, they could be one of the best defensive teams in the league. Look at the games against GSW last year as proof of that. If this year's team brings it every night, they will be slightly above average but not great.

Crowder, Amir, Bradley, and Olynyk(yes, KO, he was a very good team defender) were good to great defenders when they locked in. Their replacements(in the same order as above), Hayward, Morris, Nader and Baynes just aren't as good defensively.

The problem is they hardly ever locked in and played sound D last year. Both AB and Crowder took significant steps back last year in their ability to play consistent, sound D.

And I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that these guys aren't good defenders.  Though I can't speak for Nader, all three of Hayward, Morris, and Baynes are above average to very good defenders, and they will be more than adequate to cover the defensive abilities that we lost.

I saw a quote yesterday that I think applies here - "Jae Crowder was so underrated that he's now overrated by most fans." I think this is a pretty accurate description of both AB and Jae when it comes to their D. While AB might legitimately be a top-5 all-time ball hawk individual perimeter defender, the rest of his defensive game was rather uninspiring. Jae is largely similar in that regard, but he got quite a bit worse at both ends last year, much more so than AB.

Never said they weren't good defenders. Just not as good. I fully expect this year's team to be middle of the road to slightly below average in the defensive ratings this year.

[2short]

we lost a very good defender Bradley
we upgraded our pg defense, IT-Irving

our backcourt went from very undersized to a standard pg and either smart or brown as sg, either one is a good defender, smart being very very good

lost crowder, gained hayward I'd really call this even
added Morris and Baynes that is a plus
horford I'm fine with, can't understand where he is suddenly old, unless people are thinking of amir who was cooked last year

defense will be equal or better and offense way better

[Celtics4ever]

Baynes will surprise folks.

“He’s our best communicator by far – not even close,” Van Gundy said. “And I don’t think anybody out here would say otherwise. He’s right on top of it. He talks early, he talks loudly. I think he helps other people play the game harder.”

Baynes is a reliable Van Gundy surrogate when it comes to talking points. He never fails to mention the need for the Pistons to raise their level of play defensively to become the team they expect to be.

“It’s always about getting stops. Has been the whole year for us,” he said. “That’s what we’re trying to focus on and that’s what we need to keep doing and keep working toward

http://www.nba.com/pistons/features/baynes-its-defensive-heart-svgs-bench-emerging-critical-time-pistons/

Considering his defensive performance, it shouldn’t come as much surprise that he had the second-best on-court defensive rating on the team. The Pistons allowed just 98.5 points per 100 possessions when Baynes was on the floor, but yielded 108.1 points per 100 when he was on the bench.

Baynes was also the best rim protector the Pistons had among all rotational players. Inside 6′, opponents shot 10.7 percent worse than their season average when he was the primary defender.

https://pistonpowered.com/2017/06/01/detroit-pistons-whats-going-aron-baynes/

But it was on the defensive end where Baynes made his biggest impact. He had a defensive rating of 98.5, a difference of 6.8 below the team’s mark. It’s not something you’d expect out of Baynes by looking at his traditional defensive marks, but he was a game-changer defensively. He had a defensive field goal percentage of 42.7 percent, holding opposing players to 4.8 percent below their average field goal percentage.  His defensive field goal percentage was the third best mark for centers in the league and his differential was the fourth best.

But somehow, the Pistons were a better rebounding team with Baynes on the court than Drummond. They averaged a rebounding percentage of +1.4 percent higher than the opposing team while Drummond was on the court, +6 percent with him on the bench. Their rebounding percentage was +6.3 percent higher with Baynes on the court and only +2 percent higher with him on the bench.

https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017/5/5/15552092/2016-17-detroit-pistons-nba-review-aron-baynes-was-one-of-the-pistons-few-bright-spots

I think he will help.  Brown ought to pick up some of the slack.   Hayward is a decent defender.   Irving and IT are close but Irving is taller and we have never seen him give solid effort on defense.   Losing AB stinks but Marcus is a very good defender.   Semi shows a great deal of promise.   Tatum has the length but needs to gain some weight.   I like the tape I have seen of Theis.  I think we will be ok.

We are more athletic across the board folks.  Al was a solid anchor last year.  We added some size and athletic ability to our lineup.   No, the sky is not falling.

we lost a very good defender Bradley
we upgraded our pg defense, IT-Irving

our backcourt went from very undersized to a standard pg and either smart or brown as sg, either one is a good defender, smart being very very good

lost crowder, gained hayward I'd really call this even
added Morris and Baynes that is a plus
horford I'm fine with, can't understand where he is suddenly old, unless people are thinking of amir who was cooked last year

lost crowder, gained hayward I'd really call this even
added Morris and Baynes that is a plus
horford I'm fine with, can't understand where he is suddenly old, unless people are thinking of amir who was cooked last year

defense will be equal or better and offense way better

This guy gets it and he is not losing it.  TP for being a sane poster.

[GreenWarrior]

we were bad defensively last season with 2 so-called great defenders.

[byennie]

we lost a very good defender Bradley
we upgraded our pg defense, IT-Irving

our backcourt went from very undersized to a standard pg and either smart or brown as sg, either one is a good defender, smart being very very good

lost crowder, gained hayward I'd really call this even
added Morris and Baynes that is a plus
horford I'm fine with, can't understand where he is suddenly old, unless people are thinking of amir who was cooked last year

defense will be equal or better and offense way better

I'm with you until the Crowder = Hayward thing. Really? Even? I love me some Jae Crowder but you gotta discern between hustle and talent at some point. Hayward is clearly a superior player.

[byennie]

we were bad defensively last season with 2 so-called great defenders.

In fact, by every known defensive measure, Bradley was average. He has a reputation for stepping up in certain matchups, but the reality is that he is undersized for SG with overrated defense. Smart is a significantly better defender today.

[2short]

we lost a very good defender Bradley
we upgraded our pg defense, IT-Irving

our backcourt went from very undersized to a standard pg and either smart or brown as sg, either one is a good defender, smart being very very good

lost crowder, gained hayward I'd really call this even
added Morris and Baynes that is a plus
horford I'm fine with, can't understand where he is suddenly old, unless people are thinking of amir who was cooked last year

defense will be equal or better and offense way better

I'm with you until the Crowder = Hayward thing. Really? Even? I love me some Jae Crowder but you gotta discern between hustle and talent at some point. Hayward is clearly a superior player.

I only meant defensively.  Hayward is a full level above Jae as a player, not in same league.

[byennie]

we lost a very good defender Bradley
we upgraded our pg defense, IT-Irving

our backcourt went from very undersized to a standard pg and either smart or brown as sg, either one is a good defender, smart being very very good

lost crowder, gained hayward I'd really call this even
added Morris and Baynes that is a plus
horford I'm fine with, can't understand where he is suddenly old, unless people are thinking of amir who was cooked last year

defense will be equal or better and offense way better

I'm with you until the Crowder = Hayward thing. Really? Even? I love me some Jae Crowder but you gotta discern between hustle and talent at some point. Hayward is clearly a superior player.

I only meant defensively.  Hayward is a full level above Jae as a player, not in same league.

Gotcha. Sorry, lost context there.

[2short]

we lost a very good defender Bradley
we upgraded our pg defense, IT-Irving

our backcourt went from very undersized to a standard pg and either smart or brown as sg, either one is a good defender, smart being very very good

lost crowder, gained hayward I'd really call this even
added Morris and Baynes that is a plus
horford I'm fine with, can't understand where he is suddenly old, unless people are thinking of amir who was cooked last year

defense will be equal or better and offense way better

I'm with you until the Crowder = Hayward thing. Really? Even? I love me some Jae Crowder but you gotta discern between hustle and talent at some point. Hayward is clearly a superior player.

I only meant defensively.  Hayward is a full level above Jae as a player, not in same league.

Gotcha. Sorry, lost context there.

No problem, in rereading it i kind of make it sound like Irving is a standard pg also.  I meant a standard size pg compared to Isiah's height.

[DooVoo]

If we are better than last year's team defensively it won't be by much. We were very average last year but when the team wanted to bring it, they could be one of the best defensive teams in the league. Look at the games against GSW last year as proof of that. If this year's team brings it every night, they will be slightly above average but not great.

Crowder, Amir, Bradley, and Olynyk(yes, KO, he was a very good team defender) were good to great defenders when they locked in. Their replacements(in the same order as above), Hayward, Morris, Nader and Baynes just aren't as good defensively.

The problem is they hardly ever locked in and played sound D last year. Both AB and Crowder took significant steps back last year in their ability to play consistent, sound D.

And I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that these guys aren't good defenders.  Though I can't speak for Nader, all three of Hayward, Morris, and Baynes are above average to very good defenders, and they will be more than adequate to cover the defensive abilities that we lost.

I saw a quote yesterday that I think applies here - "Jae Crowder was so underrated that he's now overrated by most fans." I think this is a pretty accurate description of both AB and Jae when it comes to their D. While AB might legitimately be a top-5 all-time ball hawk individual perimeter defender, the rest of his defensive game was rather uninspiring. Jae is largely similar in that regard, but he got quite a bit worse at both ends last year, much more so than AB.

Never said they weren't good defenders. Just not as good. I fully expect this year's team to be middle of the road to slightly below average in the defensive ratings this year.

And that is what we were last year. Cause AB and Crowder took steps back as defenders. So we were a middle of the road defensive team and should be this year but the difference is we will be much bigger and with better offensive players.

The OP thought we were some great defensive team last year but the stats don't bare that out. AB and Crowder taking steps back were a huge part of that reason.

[crimson_stallion]

Yeah, this just isn't true.

If anything, we'll be better. I like the starting unit's defense (Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, Morris, and Horford) much more this year than last year, and replacing KO, Green, and Zeller with the likes of Baynes and Theis will help the bench defense, too, though a lot will depend upon whether Smart starts or comes off the bench.

And what's this about Horford? He was easily our second best defender last year behind Smart. His problem was that he was being played out of position at the 4 having to chase guys out on the perimeter.

People have this misconception that we were some great defensive team last year when in reality we were average at best. We won because of our elite offense. Removing the biggest defensive mismatch in the league and adding several more lanky, athletic wing types capable of vast switching will only make us better this year.

KO has been one of the best team defenders on this team for the last 2-3 years.  Combined that with Bradley, Crowder, Amir (three excellent defensive players) and that's a massive loss.  Even Jerebko was a pretty nice defensive player who could impact the game on that end.

Kyrie is a terrible defensive player, Brown is average, Hayward is average.  Horford and Morris are solid, but that only covers the frontcourt.  Looking at the bench, Rozier has potential but has to get more consistent, Tatum is going to probably struggle defensively at the start, Yabusele I'm not expecting much defence from, Theis and Nader I'm expecting zero defence from, Baynes is solid.

Smart, Horford and Morris are pretty much the only consistently above average defenders on this entire roster, and yes that IS a major concern given that we also project to be ever worse on the boards this year then we were last year.  Sucking at defence AND rebounding is very problematic and something to be concerned about.

Horford, our second best defender after Smart?  Umm...no.  Smart was not our best defender (he was at least 3rd, behind Bradley and Crowder) and Horford was merely above average.

[playdream]

Yeah, this just isn't true.

If anything, we'll be better. I like the starting unit's defense (Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, Morris, and Horford) much more this year than last year, and replacing KO, Green, and Zeller with the likes of Baynes and Theis will help the bench defense, too, though a lot will depend upon whether Smart starts or comes off the bench.

And what's this about Horford? He was easily our second best defender last year behind Smart. His problem was that he was being played out of position at the 4 having to chase guys out on the perimeter.

People have this misconception that we were some great defensive team last year when in reality we were average at best. We won because of our elite offense. Removing the biggest defensive mismatch in the league and adding several more lanky, athletic wing types capable of vast switching will only make us better this year.

KO has been one of the best team defenders on this team for the last 2-3 years.  Combined that with Bradley, Crowder, Amir (three excellent defensive players) and that's a massive loss.  Even Jerebko was a pretty nice defensive player who could impact the game on that end.

Kyrie is a terrible defensive player, Brown is average, Hayward is average.  Horford and Morris are solid, but that only covers the frontcourt.  Looking at the bench, Rozier has potential but has to get more consistent, Tatum is going to probably struggle defensively at the start, Yabusele I'm not expecting much defence from, Theis and Nader I'm expecting zero defence from, Baynes is solid.

Smart, Horford and Morris are pretty much the only consistently above average defenders on this entire roster, and yes that IS a major concern given that we also project to be ever worse on the boards this year then we were last year.  Sucking at defence AND rebounding is very problematic and something to be concerned about.

Horford, our second best defender after Smart?  Umm...no.  Smart was not our best defender (he was at least 3rd, behind Bradley and Crowder) and Horford was merely above average.

Bradley and Crowder's defense is so overated .. remember how felton tore AB apart in the playoffs? and Lebron toys with Crowder?
If anything Rozier and Tatum will be better defender than those two, just watch

[Roy H.]

It will be interesting to see where the defense falls.  Last year's ranks:

3PT% allowed: 2nd
eFG% allowed: 5th
3PT allowed: 7th
FG% allowed: 8th
Defensive rating: 13th

Turnover percentage forced: 16th

FTs allowed: 26th
Defensive rebound percentage: 28th

So, while our defense was mediocre, we did a good job defending the 3PT line, and contesting shots in general. The issues were giving up too many second chances and too many FTs.

[crimson_stallion]

we lost a very good defender Bradley
we upgraded our pg defense, IT-Irving

our backcourt went from very undersized to a standard pg and either smart or brown as sg, either one is a good defender, smart being very very good

lost crowder, gained hayward I'd really call this even
added Morris and Baynes that is a plus
horford I'm fine with, can't understand where he is suddenly old, unless people are thinking of amir who was cooked last year

defense will be equal or better and offense way better

Because he's been horribly inconsistent (though admittedly, it was more on offense and the boards) for about the past 3 years.

[mctyson]

People have this misconception that we were some great defensive team last year when in reality we were average at best. We won because of our elite offense. Removing the biggest defensive mismatch in the league and adding several more lanky, athletic wing types capable of vast switching will only make us better this year.

I agree with this.  I haven't looked up advanced stats but we were not a top defensive team from what I saw.  We were fine defensively for the level of talent that we had.  We have some different players in the mix this year.  I actually think we will be better in the front court with Morris and Baynes added in place of Johnson and Olynyk and probably better at PG as well.

Replacing Crowder and Bradley are where the questions may be.  I think Hayward will be fine on defense but is not as tough as Crowder and he will be focused more on offense so simply will not be able to expend as much energy on defense.  We may be playing Smart in Bradley's role which is fine but we then lose something on the second unit.  Bradley was not as tough on defense last season as past seasons based on what I saw and that may have been because they were asking more of him on offense.

I am not that worried about this and certainly do not expect us to be the worst in the league or anything like that.

Yes last year we were a bad defensive team.

This year our rebounding and defense will take a massive hit.

I agree with you that it is possible that our defense will be worse (though I don't think it will be.)

But you REALLY need to lie to convince me that anyone we lost this past season was moving the needle on rebounding.