We are going to be one of the WORST defensive teams next year......

[TheReaLPuba]

People have this misconception that we were some great defensive team last year when in reality we were average at best. We won because of our elite offense. Removing the biggest defensive mismatch in the league and adding several more lanky, athletic wing types capable of vast switching will only make us better this year.

I agree with this.  I haven't looked up advanced stats but we were not a top defensive team from what I saw.  We were fine defensively for the level of talent that we had.  We have some different players in the mix this year.  I actually think we will be better in the front court with Morris and Baynes added in place of Johnson and Olynyk and probably better at PG as well.

Replacing Crowder and Bradley are where the questions may be.  I think Hayward will be fine on defense but is not as tough as Crowder and he will be focused more on offense so simply will not be able to expend as much energy on defense.  We may be playing Smart in Bradley's role which is fine but we then lose something on the second unit.  Bradley was not as tough on defense last season as past seasons based on what I saw and that may have been because they were asking more of him on offense.

I am not that worried about this and certainly do not expect us to be the worst in the league or anything like that.

Yes last year we were a bad defensive team.

This year our rebounding and defense will take a massive hit.

[nebist]

A couple of thoughts on the defense:
1) Bradley is a legitimate loss.  He could go toe to toe with some of the best guards in the league and had the lateral quickness to provide resistance against elite ball-handlers.
2) Crowder's defense has been overstated for the past year plus.  He stopped playing as hard on that end of the floor once he became established.  He does have some toughness/physicality, but he is certainly not irreplaceable.
3) Smart is our best defender, and I would place him comfortably in the top 10 defenders in the NBA, so I view us as having one top option to place on another team's best scorer as long as they are 6'6" or smaller (ideally).
4) Brown/Hayward/Morris/Horford/Smart/Tatum/Semi/Yabu/etc. give us rare size, versatility, and athleticism to switch most screens when we want to.  That ability is very valuable, especially in the playoffs and in late game situations.
5) Brown would seem to have high defensive upside with his athleticism, size, and effort.  His defensive development is key if we are going to be a good, rather than just okay, defensive team.
6) Our biggest issue is with defensive rebounding.  As others have noted, that can turn a good defensive team into a mediocre one based on extra possessions.

If I had to make a prediction, I would say that our FG% allowed will be high (in the 3-10 range) because of our versatility, athleticism, and ability to switch (and only having Irving as a real black hole defensively in our rotation).  However, I am worried about our defensive rebounding dragging down our overall defensive efficiency and points allowed, so I think in terms of holistic stats we will end up in the bottom of that range around 10th overall.

I do think we have a legitimate chance to have one of, if not the, best offense in the league.  If we can field a top 3 offense and a top 10 defense, that makes us a legitimate contender.  Only Golden State could likely be significantly better on both sides of the ball if we reach our potential.

[SHAQATTACK]

,should be at least mid pack ...or CBS will have a COW.

[blink]

I don't buy the premise of this thread.  No way are we going to be bad defensively.  Crowder was a bit over rated on D, and Gordon is a bit under rated on D.  They are probably closer than most of us think.  Morris is a good defender.  Smart and Horford are still here and both great defenders.  KI is going to be a better defender than IT.  Jaylen has shown he can be a good defender and has a lot of def upside.  We as a team got bigger and stronger across the board which will help our D.

The only thing that really supports taking a step back defensively is losing Avery.  His loss will be felt no doubt.  But there are only so many lock down defenders in the NBA, and he is hard to replace.

[droopdog7]

Regarding defense, there one reason why we may actually be better than last year.  First, whether we start Brown or Smart (I vote for Brown), we should be able to guard teams straight up.  No more garbage cross-matches, no more putting IT on the worse offensive player, no more undersized two guard and undersized PG.  We'll be much longer than last year, which i think will help very much.  Frankly, I think defense is much more about mentality and team concepts that is is about individual ability.

Now, rebounding is another thing entirely.  We'll have to see about that one.

[mmmmm]

I think we will be significantly better on D this year.   Of course, that's not saying much because we were overall kind of mediocre on D last year.

But a large part of why we were mediocre on D is because Stevens used a LOT of 3-guard lineups last year.  I.E., 5-man units that ran with all three of IT+AB+MS on the floor.  Sometimes Rozier was in there.   Those super-small lineups tended to score fairly well (especially as long as IT was on the floor) but they also always had horrible defensive ratings.

Consider that, in 5-man units where IT was on the floor with BOTH Avery and Marcus, the Defensive Rating was a pretty p----poor 116.2 points per 100 possessions.

In 5-man units with _just_ Isaiah and Avery (and NO Marcus or Rozier), the defensive rating dropped like a stone to a much nicer 109.1 points per 100 possessions.

Now, this is not to say that Marcus was the problem.  The problem was from doing things like playing Marcus at the 3 and Jae at the 4 too much at the same time.

We get similar defensive improvements in every other '2-guard' vs '3-guard' comparison.  So the problem wasn't any one player.   The problem was being too small at too many positions.

My hope is that this year, Brad will be more inclined to use '3 wings' when he goes small rather than 3 guards.   I think that should by itself dramatically improve our defense.

Irving by himself is not really a defensive improvement over Thomas -- or at least not one I would care to rely upon.  But defense at the 1 is not really that big of a deal in the modern NBA anyway.  I think our defensive improvements will come from increased length and athleticism in the 2-3-4 spots and increased 'beef' up front from replacing Amir & Kelly & Jerebko with Baynes, Theis and Yabusele who, while nowhere near as skilled or experienced, at least provide some legit size and wingspan.

I would feel better if we were able to shore up the front-court with a defensive veteran big man like Bogut, though.   We only need that sort of thing situationally, but we do need it.

But we look to be pretty long, strong and athletic in the 2-3-4 wing /big wing part of our lineups.  If we play to that strength, I think we'll be fine.

[max215]

I think we'll probably be about average to slightly below on defense. Anything shy of a top-5 offense will be a massive disappointment, though.

[TheReaLPuba]

I don't buy the premise of this thread.  No way are we going to be bad defensively.  Crowder was a bit over rated on D, and Gordon is a bit under rated on D.  They are probably closer than most of us think.  Morris is a good defender.  Smart and Horford are still here and both great defenders.  KI is going to be a better defender than IT.  Jaylen has shown he can be a good defender and has a lot of def upside.  We as a team got bigger and stronger across the board which will help our D.

The only thing that really supports taking a step back defensively is losing Avery.  His loss will be felt no doubt.  But there are only so many lock down defenders in the NBA, and he is hard to replace.

You guys don't understand. This is basically a brand new team!

We are returning what...4 players from last year??

You don't have so much player turnover and think that this team will be good on offense or defense....it takes time to build chemistry and to learn a system!

We had some length last year and was able to help mask some defensive deficiencies in IT...we don't have this luxury anymore.

Smart and Rozier will have to play 30+ minutes a night and that's if they don't get into foul trouble themselves.

Brown has all the tools to be a pretty good if not elite defender but is that his game? I don't see him as a defensive player...he's suppose to be a scoring athletic wing.

Tatum on the other hand can be elite on both ends but he needs time to develop.

I'm sorry guys but next year is going to be a tough transitional year.

[nickagneta]

If we are better than last year's team defensively it won't be by much. We were very average last year but when the team wanted to bring it, they could be one of the best defensive teams in the league. Look at the games against GSW last year as proof of that. If this year's team brings it every night, they will be slightly above average but not great.

Crowder, Amir, Bradley, and Olynyk(yes, KO, he was a very good team defender) were good to great defenders when they locked in. Their replacements(in the same order as above), Hayward, Morris, Nader and Baynes just aren't as good defensively.

[PhoSita]

The improvement in size and athleticism across the board should help the defense quite a lot in the long run.  Horford won't have to do as much work as last line of defense, which he is not suited to do at this point in his career anyway.

However, the lack of familiarity among the personnel will mean that the defense will have growing pains all year.

On defense, unlike offense, you can't default to isolations to bail you out when your defensive schemes break down because nobody knows how to play together.

[Shoot the J]

I'm impressed by the ability of some to predict with certainty where the Celtics will rank defensively in the upcoming season . Can those same people tell me if, in spite of the terrible defense, the Celtics will score more points than their opponents? If so, I don't care about defense.

[tstorey_97]

Celtics weren't much on defense last year...keep in mind the NBA doesn't play defense that much anyways.

Celtics were .250 against the top 6 NBA teams.

Celtics' starting center, Amir Johnson couldn't jump.(NBA players need this skill)

AB and IT were usually shorter than their opponent.

Kelly "the stopper" Olynyk played a lot of minutes (20.5 mpg).

The Celtics would frequently "go small"...this was because beyond Horford, their best players were "small".

Gerald Green started playoff games.

Jaylen Brown, whom had never ever played defense before, learned whilst on the court with our small guys. For the first half of the season, he would kind of watch the game going on around him, then get pulled. Why do you think Smart had to rip his head off all the time?

This year's Celtics haven't played any defense yet, but, Baynes can jump.+
Jaylen Brown is far better than he was the first half last year and he is 6'7".+
Irving will be a somewhat  better matchup for his opponent on defense than IT was.+
If Smart starts, your starting back court will be better defensively and bigger than last year.+
Hayward is an excellent two way player who will execute Stevens defense to good effect.
Horford, I assume will equal last year's effort.

The bench is the bench, the top six players make the decision. The Celtics are bigger than last year and have eliminated a percentage of their defensive liability. How much, to be determined.

Meanwhile the Celtics on offense this year VS last year? Opposing defenses are going to be "a lot worse than last year."

[blink]

I don't buy the premise of this thread.  No way are we going to be bad defensively.  Crowder was a bit over rated on D, and Gordon is a bit under rated on D.  They are probably closer than most of us think.  Morris is a good defender.  Smart and Horford are still here and both great defenders.  KI is going to be a better defender than IT.  Jaylen has shown he can be a good defender and has a lot of def upside.  We as a team got bigger and stronger across the board which will help our D.

The only thing that really supports taking a step back defensively is losing Avery.  His loss will be felt no doubt.  But there are only so many lock down defenders in the NBA, and he is hard to replace.

You guys don't understand. This is basically a brand new team!

We are returning what...4 players from last year??

You don't have so much player turnover and think that this team will be good on offense or defense....it takes time to build chemistry and to learn a system!

We had some length last year and was able to help mask some defensive deficiencies in IT...we don't have this luxury anymore.

Smart and Rozier will have to play 30+ minutes a night and that's if they don't get into foul trouble themselves.

Brown has all the tools to be a pretty good if not elite defender but is that his game? I don't see him as a defensive player...he's suppose to be a scoring athletic wing.

Tatum on the other hand can be elite on both ends but he needs time to develop.

I'm sorry guys but next year is going to be a tough transitional year.

Everyone on this board knows we turned over most of the roster.  It is a no brainer that it will take the team a while to gel and play def the way Brad wants the team to.  But there is no way we are going to be one of the worst def teams next year.   The team next year will be bigger, longer and stronger than last years team.  Believe it or not, size does matter in the NBA.

We lost Avery, and that is a hit, but everything else is very marginal one way or the other.  Crowder played one year of good D, and some people still think of him as a great defender.  He was a tough player, and I liked him, but Hayward isn't a def liability, and probably is close to the defender that Crowder was last season. 

We will be better on D next year not having to constantly cover up for IT in one way or another.  Losing KO and Amir for Morris, Baynes, Theis won't be some huge loss defensively.  Have you watched any tape on Morris?  Morris is a very good defender that can switch onto multiple positions.  Baynes is a load, but he is nimble for his size and also a good defender.

It may take us a while to gel defensively, but don't think we are going to be much, if any worse on the def side of the ball next year.

[jpotter33]

If we are better than last year's team defensively it won't be by much. We were very average last year but when the team wanted to bring it, they could be one of the best defensive teams in the league. Look at the games against GSW last year as proof of that. If this year's team brings it every night, they will be slightly above average but not great.

Crowder, Amir, Bradley, and Olynyk(yes, KO, he was a very good team defender) were good to great defenders when they locked in. Their replacements(in the same order as above), Hayward, Morris, Nader and Baynes just aren't as good defensively.

The problem is they hardly ever locked in and played sound D last year. Both AB and Crowder took significant steps back last year in their ability to play consistent, sound D.

And I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that these guys aren't good defenders.  Though I can't speak for Nader, all three of Hayward, Morris, and Baynes are above average to very good defenders, and they will be more than adequate to cover the defensive abilities that we lost.

I saw a quote yesterday that I think applies here - "Jae Crowder was so underrated that he's now overrated by most fans." I think this is a pretty accurate description of both AB and Jae when it comes to their D. While AB might legitimately be a top-5 all-time ball hawk individual perimeter defender, the rest of his defensive game was rather uninspiring. Jae is largely similar in that regard, but he got quite a bit worse at both ends last year, much more so than AB.

[Eddie20]

...Marcus Smart has to start.

This isn't even debatable.

Horford is old he can't defend like he once could.

Kyrie can't guard a brick wall.

If Smart doesn't start then both Kyrie and Hayward will get into foul trouble every single [dang] game.

So I guess Horford just became really old in the last few months.

Kyrie is an upgrade defensively over Thomas.

Hayward is a better defender than Crowder. He's not as physical, but is way better at moving his feet laterally and keeping players in front of him.