If IT4 Was 100% Healthy, Would DA Have Kept Him For LONG Haul?

[bknova]

Nope. Not for a Brinks truck.  Ainge is realistic, he blew up the 2002 ECF team because he thought they overachieved.  Last year's team got smoked by Cleveland.  They overachieved, he blew it up.  At no point in his entire career will Isiah be the centerpiece of a championship team.  Danny knows that.

[jambr380]

If IT was healthy, he probably wouldn't even include the BKN pick in the package.

IT was never worth near what Kyrie was on the open market - never mind the fact that  he was on an expiring deal.

Cleveland is hoping for the best from IT this year, but the deal was always for the BKN pick. No other pick - besides maybe the LAL/Sac pick - would have gotten the trade done.

Boston definitely "outbid" other teams for him.

Supposedly no other team was close to offering Boston's value in trade (Milwaukee's was good, but not THAT good).

I agree that Boston had the best deal. It also made sense for Cleveland as it allowed them to go all in this year and prepare for the future if Lebron leaves.

As for the original question, I go with a hard 'no', unless, of course, DA was able to keep IT on a shorter term deal. I can't imagine he would have gone 5 or even 4 years on a max contract...but what do I know?

[SCeltic34]

DA probably would have kept him had Kyrie not become available.  He saw an opportunity and had the assets to pull the trigger.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I'd imagine they had a very poor relationship for DA to dump him without warning.  So, definitely not -- DA didn't respect IT as a man, he surely wasn't going to resign him.  Hopefully Kyrie is being used the same way, as this pattern seems to help the organization at large.

[jambr380]

I'd imagine they had a very poor relationship for DA to dump him without warning.  So, definitely not -- DA didn't respect IT as a man, he surely wasn't going to resign him.  Hopefully Kyrie is being used the same way, as this pattern seems to help the organization at large.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that DA definitely respected IT 'as a man.' This is a business and DA made a very difficult business decision that he thought would benefit the franchise. I understand why IT would rather not interact with DA ever again, but that does not mean he wasn't well-respected within the organization.

[nickagneta]

I'd imagine they had a very poor relationship for DA to dump him without warning.  So, definitely not -- DA didn't respect IT as a man, he surely wasn't going to resign him.  Hopefully Kyrie is being used the same way, as this pattern seems to help the organization at large.

From all accounts, Danny and IT had a very close and respectful relationship. IT even talked after the trade about the shock he had when Danny called him to tell him he was traded. Danny said it was one of the hardest phone calls he ever had to make. I think they both respected each other deeply.

But Ainge made a decision he thought was in the best interest of the franchise and he moved on. Perhaps with the injury diagnosis Ainge felt IT was a bad investment. Perhaps he liked Kyrie's game better. Perhaps he liked Kyrie's age alugnment with a younger core better than IT's. Perhaps all of the above. That just means Ainge thought Irving was a better investment than IT, not that he didn't respect him.

[tarheelsxxiii]

jambr: I can't think of a precedent for another player of IT's caliber (i.e., talent, his impact on the organization) to be blindsided by a trade.

nick: I just can't imagine they had that strong of a relationship.  By all accounts (esp in his Players Tribune documentary), IT perceived their relationship to be much stronger than it actually was.  He also speaks to their firing of the training staff.  He essentially says that the real reasons for it, while he won't talk about, will eventually come out. 

In general, the Patrick Patterson and Greg Monroe types of the world are blindsided.  Guys like Jimmy Butler have stated that they felt blindsided by trade (Minny), but then backtrack and say they knew it was going to happen (and prob requested it at some point).  That a single precedent doesn't come to mind speaks to the extreme "business" aspect of the move imo.

[nickagneta]

jambr: I can't think of a precedent for another player of IT's caliber (i.e., talent, his impact on the organization) to be blindsided by a trade.

nick: I just can't imagine they had that strong of a relationship.  By all accounts (esp in his Players Tribune documentary), IT perceived their relationship to be much stronger than it actually was.  He also speaks to their firing of the training staff.  He essentially says that the real reasons for it, while he won't talk about, will eventually come out. 

In general, the Patrick Patterson and Greg Monroe types of the world are blindsided.  Guys like Jimmy Butler have stated that they felt blindsided by trade (Minny), but then backtrack and say they knew it was going to happen (and prob requested it at some point).  That a single precedent doesn't come to mind speaks to the extreme "business" aspect of the move imo.

In IT's Players Tribune article, IT spoke about his closeness to Ainge and respect for him given all Ainge and the Celtics had provided for him. Just because he was traded doesn't mean Ainge disrespected IT. It just means he thought he improved the Celtics by moving IT for something else. You are reading something into something that just isn't there.

[tarheelsxxiii]

jambr: I can't think of a precedent for another player of IT's caliber (i.e., talent, his impact on the organization) to be blindsided by a trade.

nick: I just can't imagine they had that strong of a relationship.  By all accounts (esp in his Players Tribune documentary), IT perceived their relationship to be much stronger than it actually was.  He also speaks to their firing of the training staff.  He essentially says that the real reasons for it, while he won't talk about, will eventually come out. 

In general, the Patrick Patterson and Greg Monroe types of the world are blindsided.  Guys like Jimmy Butler have stated that they felt blindsided by trade (Minny), but then backtrack and say they knew it was going to happen (and prob requested it at some point).  That a single precedent doesn't come to mind speaks to the extreme "business" aspect of the move imo.

In IT's Players Tribune article, IT spoke about his closeness to Ainge and respect for him given all Ainge and the Celtics had provided for him. Just because he was traded doesn't mean Ainge disrespected IT. It just means he thought he improved the Celtics by moving IT for something else. You are reading something into something that just isn't there.

I read the Tribune article and thought IT was very professional in it.  But I was actually referencing his documentary on Youtube, Book of Isaiah, that was done by the people at Players Tribune.  It's a good series, and he discusses the trade - among other things - in much more detail.  Worth the watch for IT fans imo, and definitely suggests I'm not reading more into the situation than is there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgZ3XXYQh9k

[nickagneta]

jambr: I can't think of a precedent for another player of IT's caliber (i.e., talent, his impact on the organization) to be blindsided by a trade.

nick: I just can't imagine they had that strong of a relationship.  By all accounts (esp in his Players Tribune documentary), IT perceived their relationship to be much stronger than it actually was.  He also speaks to their firing of the training staff.  He essentially says that the real reasons for it, while he won't talk about, will eventually come out. 

In general, the Patrick Patterson and Greg Monroe types of the world are blindsided.  Guys like Jimmy Butler have stated that they felt blindsided by trade (Minny), but then backtrack and say they knew it was going to happen (and prob requested it at some point).  That a single precedent doesn't come to mind speaks to the extreme "business" aspect of the move imo.

In IT's Players Tribune article, IT spoke about his closeness to Ainge and respect for him given all Ainge and the Celtics had provided for him. Just because he was traded doesn't mean Ainge disrespected IT. It just means he thought he improved the Celtics by moving IT for something else. You are reading something into something that just isn't there.

I read the Tribune article and thought IT was very professional in it.  But I was actually referencing his documentary on Youtube, Book of Isaiah, that was done by the people at Players Tribune.  It's a good series, and he discusses the trade - among other things - in much more detail.  Worth the watch for IT fans imo, and definitely suggests I'm not reading more into the situation than is there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgZ3XXYQh9k

I got through 15 minutes of that video and saw garbage regarding IT's opinion on the trade. Also, whatever feelings he had post trade doesn't channge how Danny and IT felt about each other pre trade.

[tarheelsxxiii]

jambr: I can't think of a precedent for another player of IT's caliber (i.e., talent, his impact on the organization) to be blindsided by a trade.

nick: I just can't imagine they had that strong of a relationship.  By all accounts (esp in his Players Tribune documentary), IT perceived their relationship to be much stronger than it actually was.  He also speaks to their firing of the training staff.  He essentially says that the real reasons for it, while he won't talk about, will eventually come out. 

In general, the Patrick Patterson and Greg Monroe types of the world are blindsided.  Guys like Jimmy Butler have stated that they felt blindsided by trade (Minny), but then backtrack and say they knew it was going to happen (and prob requested it at some point).  That a single precedent doesn't come to mind speaks to the extreme "business" aspect of the move imo.

In IT's Players Tribune article, IT spoke about his closeness to Ainge and respect for him given all Ainge and the Celtics had provided for him. Just because he was traded doesn't mean Ainge disrespected IT. It just means he thought he improved the Celtics by moving IT for something else. You are reading something into something that just isn't there.

I read the Tribune article and thought IT was very professional in it.  But I was actually referencing his documentary on Youtube, Book of Isaiah, that was done by the people at Players Tribune.  It's a good series, and he discusses the trade - among other things - in much more detail.  Worth the watch for IT fans imo, and definitely suggests I'm not reading more into the situation than is there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgZ3XXYQh9k

I got through 15 minutes of that video and saw garbage regarding IT's opinion on the trade. Also, whatever feelings he had post trade doesn't channge how Danny and IT felt about each other pre trade.

Hah.  Alright, well I'd say your bias is seeping through here then.  It's a long series with several chapters and a handful of episodes within each.  It's a good watch, and if you read the PT article, you may appreciate the doc.  I'd argue his feelings post-trade are the best indicator of the true nature of their relationship -- he's upset for a reason.  Regardless of our opinions, there's no precedent (correct me if I'm wrong) for a GM to dump a player that carried a historically great franchise for multiple seasons, breaking records along the way, and making significant efforts (and contributions) to impressive growth of the franchise. 

[SparzWizard]

He didn't want to pay the man who couldn't play defense to save his life and being the franchise guy.

[OldSchoolDude]

jambr: I can't think of a precedent for another player of IT's caliber (i.e., talent, his impact on the organization) to be blindsided by a trade.

nick: I just can't imagine they had that strong of a relationship.  By all accounts (esp in his Players Tribune documentary), IT perceived their relationship to be much stronger than it actually was.  He also speaks to their firing of the training staff.  He essentially says that the real reasons for it, while he won't talk about, will eventually come out. 

In general, the Patrick Patterson and Greg Monroe types of the world are blindsided.  Guys like Jimmy Butler have stated that they felt blindsided by trade (Minny), but then backtrack and say they knew it was going to happen (and prob requested it at some point).  That a single precedent doesn't come to mind speaks to the extreme "business" aspect of the move imo.

In IT's Players Tribune article, IT spoke about his closeness to Ainge and respect for him given all Ainge and the Celtics had provided for him. Just because he was traded doesn't mean Ainge disrespected IT. It just means he thought he improved the Celtics by moving IT for something else. You are reading something into something that just isn't there.

I read the Tribune article and thought IT was very professional in it.  But I was actually referencing his documentary on Youtube, Book of Isaiah, that was done by the people at Players Tribune.  It's a good series, and he discusses the trade - among other things - in much more detail.  Worth the watch for IT fans imo, and definitely suggests I'm not reading more into the situation than is there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgZ3XXYQh9k

I got through 15 minutes of that video and saw garbage regarding IT's opinion on the trade. Also, whatever feelings he had post trade doesn't channge how Danny and IT felt about each other pre trade.

Hah.  Alright, well I'd say your bias is seeping through here then.  It's a long series with several chapters and a handful of episodes within each.  It's a good watch, and if you read the PT article, you may appreciate the doc.  I'd argue his feelings post-trade are the best indicator of the true nature of their relationship -- he's upset for a reason.  Regardless of our opinions, there's no precedent (correct me if I'm wrong) for a GM to dump a player that carried a historically great franchise for multiple seasons, breaking records along the way, and making significant efforts (and contributions) to impressive growth of the franchise.

Off the top of my head:
The C's did to to Danny Ainge and he learnt the lesson well, but if that wasn't big enough there was Robert Parish and Cedric Maxwell.  Also the Brooklyn trade was like this as Pierce was the biggest deal in celtics history since the Bird/Parish/McHale era and Garnet was loved here.  Don't forget that Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Payton Manning and even Michael Jordan ended their carriers on different teams. 

[freshinthehouse]

jambr: I can't think of a precedent for another player of IT's caliber (i.e., talent, his impact on the organization) to be blindsided by a trade.

nick: I just can't imagine they had that strong of a relationship.  By all accounts (esp in his Players Tribune documentary), IT perceived their relationship to be much stronger than it actually was.  He also speaks to their firing of the training staff.  He essentially says that the real reasons for it, while he won't talk about, will eventually come out. 

In general, the Patrick Patterson and Greg Monroe types of the world are blindsided.  Guys like Jimmy Butler have stated that they felt blindsided by trade (Minny), but then backtrack and say they knew it was going to happen (and prob requested it at some point).  That a single precedent doesn't come to mind speaks to the extreme "business" aspect of the move imo.

In IT's Players Tribune article, IT spoke about his closeness to Ainge and respect for him given all Ainge and the Celtics had provided for him. Just because he was traded doesn't mean Ainge disrespected IT. It just means he thought he improved the Celtics by moving IT for something else. You are reading something into something that just isn't there.

I read the Tribune article and thought IT was very professional in it.  But I was actually referencing his documentary on Youtube, Book of Isaiah, that was done by the people at Players Tribune.  It's a good series, and he discusses the trade - among other things - in much more detail.  Worth the watch for IT fans imo, and definitely suggests I'm not reading more into the situation than is there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgZ3XXYQh9k

I got through 15 minutes of that video and saw garbage regarding IT's opinion on the trade. Also, whatever feelings he had post trade doesn't channge how Danny and IT felt about each other pre trade.

Hah.  Alright, well I'd say your bias is seeping through here then.  It's a long series with several chapters and a handful of episodes within each.  It's a good watch, and if you read the PT article, you may appreciate the doc.  I'd argue his feelings post-trade are the best indicator of the true nature of their relationship -- he's upset for a reason. Regardless of our opinions, there's no precedent (correct me if I'm wrong) for a GM to dump a player that carried a historically great franchise for multiple seasons, breaking records along the way, and making significant efforts (and contributions) to impressive growth of the franchise.

There are plenty.  Paul Pierce.  Scottie Pippen.  Glen Rice.  George Gervin.  Patrick Ewing.  Norm Nixon.  Elvin Hayes.  Gary Payton.  Chris Mullin.  Franchise icons get traded all the time. Players with much longer track records and much bigger resumes than Isaiah Thomas'.  I know you don't like Danny Ainge, but you're making it seem like IT4's time with the Celtics was akin to Hondo's.  Dude played 2 and half seasons in Boston. 

[Celtics4ever]

Ainge is always looking to get better.   His son was running for public office in Utah, yet he still went for Gordon Hayward.  If it makes the team better, he will go against the grain.