Is shooting a problem?

[Roy H.]

I've seen a few posts indicating they thought our shooting got better. I'm not sure if that's true.

Out:

IT: 3.2 3PTM; .546 eFG%
Bradley: 2.0 3PTM; .533 eFG%
Jae: 2.2 3PTM; .572 eFG%
Kelly: 0.9 3PTM; .579 eFG%
Green: 0.8 3PTM; .494 eFG%
Jerebko: 0.6 3PTM; .521 eFG%
Amir: 0.3 3PTM; .612 eFG%

In:

Kyrie: 2.5 3PTM; .535 eFG%
Hayward: 2.0 3PTM; .536 eFG%
Morris: 1.5 3PTM; .477 eFG%
Tatum: 1.4 3PTM; .507 eFG% (college)

We'll be losing a lot of efficiency and outside shooting, and it won't all be made up by Kyrie and Hayward. Is this a worry, or will guys like Morris, Tatum, Smart and Jaylen step up?

[droopdog7]

First, effective field goal shooting is only mildly related to shooting ability.  On paper, I think we're better or now worse than before.  Of all the players coming and going, kyrie is the best one hands down.  Morris may not have KOs range but he can shoot.  Hayward as good as Avery and can get much better shots.  Jaylen is a downgrade and Tatum unproven but both have a chance to be good shooters.

So I wouldn't be concerned about shooting at all.

[green_bballers13]

Bradley was sneaky good, Jae wasn't bad, and IT was straight fire.

Kyrie is a very good shooting pg, Hayward is a decent/good shooter, Morris can stretch a big man out to the line....

I think they could use a Kyle Korver type shooter. If Tatum can shoot like Pierce/Carmelo, we will prob be a good shooting team.

[GreenWarrior]

what I constantly have to remind this board of is the fact that these stats you guys love to build your hopes n' dreams and delusions of grandeur on does not show against who or when these FG percentages come into play.

for example, for the most part the stats show Avery Bradley was a pretty good shooter. what it doesn't show is the shots he didn't make through the course of a single game. which typically put us in a hole and once we were out of it and the pressure was off his shooting came back when the game was essentially over and he ended up with a decent shooting percentage.

you guys need a new way of determining what guys you fall in love with and maybe...I don't know actually watch a game and see if a guy is actually good.

the truth is for a large portion of his career AB took bad shots, he'd pull up and shoot a contested mid-range shot early in the shot clock - a shot we could get anytime we wanted. Jae Crowder continued this tradition... on his way out the door.

the proof in what I say is the fact that they aren't here any more. 

[greece66]

Yep, we lost some shooting by comparison to last year, esp. when it comes to the second unit. This is p clear. What is less clear is how this will affect our playing style.

We only kept four players from last year, and many of the newcomers are rookies. The new roster is work in progress rather than a finished product, I expect Stevens to try lots of lineups in the first couple of months of the RS.

Maybe some of the rookies will step up and make up for the players who left, maybe we'll add a shooter to the roster.

[Roy H.]

what I constantly have to remind this board of is the fact that these stats you guys love to build your hopes n' dreams and delusions of grandeur on does not show against who or when these FG percentages come into play.

for example, for the most part the stats show Avery Bradley was a pretty good shooter. what it doesn't show is the shots he didn't make through the course of a single game. which typically put us in a hole and once we were out of it and the pressure was off his shooting came back when the game was essentially over and he ended up with a decent shooting percentage.

you guys need a new way of determining what guys you fall in love with and maybe...I don't know actually watch a game and see if a guy is actually good.

the truth is for a large portion of his career AB took bad shots, he'd pull up and shoot a contested mid-range shot early in the shot clock - a shot we could get anytime we wanted. Jae Crowder continued this tradition... on his way out the door.

the proof in what I say is the fact that they aren't here any more.

I think your observations are pretty off here.

For instance, this idea that AB boosted his shooting percentage in blowout losses has no basis in reality. He was a very good shooter in both wins and losses, but was better in wins.

An outstanding three point shooter is still going to miss roughly 60% of his outside shots.

[konkmv]

irving Hayward and Tatum are better shooters than Thomas Avery and crowder

[greece66]

irving Hayward and Tatum are better shooters than Thomas Avery and crowder

Not true.

Also, you conveniently ignore Olynyk, Gerald Green and Jerebko.

[Roy H.]

irving Hayward and Tatum are better shooters than Thomas Avery and crowder

Well, no, that's not necessarily true. That's why the numbers are posted above.

Tatum in particular is a big question mark. He wasn't a great shooter in college. Expecting him to contribute as much as Jae or AB is unrealistic.

[C3LTSF4N]

Those percentages are from last year's Celtics system and the comparison is with Kyrie/Hayward, Morris etc's system from last year. You bring them all together in Brad's system and it's a new product; it's apples and oranges.   Their shooting percentages will be completely different this year and I think for the better.  Morris won't be playing behind Drummond and Reggie Jackson, and Kyrie will be in less isolation all the time (maybe).  We have more talent this year and they'll feed off of each other with good ball movement and shoot better.  I don't think you can directly compare their eFG% like that. 

[keevsnick]

I think its worth pointing put that we may very well have seen some regression in the 3pt % anyway. Jae crowder is about a 35% 3p shooter who shot 40% last year. Isaiah Thomas also shot a good deal over his career average. Maybe those numbers represent real improvement, but 3pt % can fluctuate a good deal season to season. Irving has a higher career 3pt % than Thomas and Hayward has a higher career 3pt % than Crowder, they may very well be better than those two this year even if they weren't last year. We did lose some shooting with Bradley and Olynk, we'll have to see if Brown and Morris/Tatum can show some improvement and compensate. 

[DooVoo]

I never thought of IT, Bradley, and Crowder as good shooters. In fact Crowder seems to be getting worse each year as a shooter. Irving and Hayward are good shooters who should be even more effective in Brad's system. KO is a better shooter than Morris but Morris brings way more to the table as a player.


eFG% is a very system based stat since it relies a lot on offensive design. Shooting is not a problem. Not even close. It all comes down to defense with this group.

[Roy H.]

I never thought of IT, Bradley, and Crowder as good shooters. In fact Crowder seems to be getting worse each year as a shooter. Irving and Hayward are good shooters who should be even more effective in Brad's system. KO is a better shooter than Morris but Morris brings way more to the table as a player.


eFG% is a very system based stat since it relies a lot on offensive design. Shooting is not a problem. Not even close. It all comes down to defense with this group.

How do you figure Jae's shooting was getting worse?

He set career highs in 3PTM, FG%, 3PT%, eFG%, TS% last season.

[ausbacker]

Those percentages are from last year's Celtics system and the comparison is with Kyrie/Hayward, Morris etc's system from last year. You bring them all together in Brad's system and it's a new product; it's apples and oranges.   Their shooting percentages will be completely different this year and I think for the better.  Morris won't be playing behind Drummond and Reggie Jackson, and Kyrie will be in less isolation all the time (maybe).  We have more talent this year and they'll feed off of each other with good ball movement and shoot better.  I don't think you can directly compare their eFG% like that.

That was the first thing that came to mind; the scoring environments. We'll have a better indication at the season's quarterly marks to better understand how the team fits, scores, plays defense etc. Right now, we simply don't know.

[GreenEnvy]

I never thought of IT, Bradley, and Crowder as good shooters. In fact Crowder seems to be getting worse each year as a shooter. Irving and Hayward are good shooters who should be even more effective in Brad's system. KO is a better shooter than Morris but Morris brings way more to the table as a player.


eFG% is a very system based stat since it relies a lot on offensive design. Shooting is not a problem. Not even close. It all comes down to defense with this group.

Bradley was known for his midrange and three.

IT shot 51% from 10ft out to the three, which from beyond that he shot 38%, hardly poor numbers by any means.

Jae shot 40% from deep, which is elite.

Not sure where any of what you're saying came from. Brad utilized them correctly, and probably will do the same for Gordon and Kyrie, but the guys we lost, KO included, could definitely shoot.