Bleacher: NBA Insiders DOUBT Irving Is Worth What C's Paid (Not A True Alpha)

[Rich]

"The thing is, Kyrie has NOT proven he can be a true alpha yet and even the last 2 years, when Irving played and Lebron didn't, the Cavs were GARBAGE and had an abysmal 4-23 record."

Kyrie is 25.  Before Lebron, he was 22 years old with no help or stability.  He's been coached by the likes of Blatt and Lue, but not by CBS, who took an undersized bench scorer who was drafted last in the second round, and turned him into a 2 time all-star and a top 5 MVP candidate. 

Call me a homer who is drinking the green Kool-Aid, but I think Irving comes here with much of the same criticism (and upside) as James Harden did when he was traded to Houston.  Lots of similarities (a score-first guard who was playing in the shadows of an elite forward). 

The Celtics are a rarity in this league in the sense that they are building around a coach and not a player.  Let's give Brad the players he wants, and see what he can do with them.  I'm gonna let this one play out for 2-3 seasons before I jump off the bridge of negativity every other fan seems to.

Good take. 

[CelticD]

How can one determine if Irving is a true alpha when his best teammate before Lebron was a 35 year old Antawn Jamison during Irving's rookie year?

Irving's play is what helped entice Lebron to go back to Cleveland in the first place. Lebron saw a big 3 with Irving and Love, and rightfully anticipated a championship with that core. The Cavs don't win a ring without Irving, and they would've gotten swept without him last year too.

This is Irving's first season leading a team with a respectable supporting cast. This is the year that should determine if he's a true alpha.

[Moranis]

Here's more great, journalistic insight:
To wit: No other team appeared willing to part with an All-Star or a high lottery pick to get Irving.

Teams that trade for All stars are normally contenders, teams with high draft picks are normally rebuilding. Why would a rebuilding team trade a high draft pick? Not even for Lebron and that doesn't mean he isn't a star. Contending teams aren't trying to swap All stars, they're trying to compile them. The uniqueness of our position being a contender with a high draft pick and an all star on a different timeline is the stars aligning for us... but definitely not the norm.

Eric Bledsoe averaged 21/6/5 last year.  Those numbers in the East get him on the all star team most likely.  Dragan Bender was the 3rd pick in the draft entering his 2nd year and is still younger then almost everyone from the most recent draft.  Miami missed the playoffs last year and there is no guarantee they make the playoffs this year.  Sure Miami will almost certainly be better than the Nets, but that easily could have been a lottery pick, which seems by definition to be a high pick.  And that was just Phoenix's initial offer.  I'm sure the Cavs could have gotten more out of them, maybe Warren or Ullis or Len or veterans like Chandler or Dudley.  Maybe more salary relief in the form of Shumpert, Jefferson and/or Frye going to the Suns. 

Boston's offer still likely beats anything the Suns could offer (outside of Jackson or Booker), but let's not pretend the Suns were offering crap, as they most certainly were not. 

That doesn't even account for Denver who had Harris or Murray on the table along with solid vets like Chandler or Milwaukee offering the rookie of the year in Brogdon plus a good solid youngish player like Middleton.  Both those teams probably would have thrown in their 1st rounder this year as well if not more. 

[Casperian]

Of course he has some flaws. Take away those flaws and he's Stephen Curry.

Shocked? Look at their offensive numbers last year playing alongside Durant/LeBron. Steph is one tick above.

A motivated Irving with a new coach, new teammates, new ownership, new fans absolutely has MVP potential. If he was already an MVP, he wouldn't be available at any price.

Overpaid? Please. That's sour grapes. When's the last time a player on Irving's level was traded for less?

Paul George, Jimmy Bulter, Demarcus Cousins...So a couple months ago

He said "on Irving's level". They are all better than Irving.

Ainge passed on all of them, So I am pretty sure he finds KI better.

Yeah, which is precisely why we should fire his ass if this doesn't work out.

He said "on Irving's level". They are all better than Irving.

I don't think that is even remotely true.

k

[timpiker]

I couldn't care less what Bleacher Report or anyone else thinks - yes we paid a little more but we got KYRIE IRVING !!!

[Sketch5]

Of course he has some flaws. Take away those flaws and he's Stephen Curry.

Shocked? Look at their offensive numbers last year playing alongside Durant/LeBron. Steph is one tick above.

A motivated Irving with a new coach, new teammates, new ownership, new fans absolutely has MVP potential. If he was already an MVP, he wouldn't be available at any price.

Overpaid? Please. That's sour grapes. When's the last time a player on Irving's level was traded for less?

Paul George, Jimmy Bulter, Demarcus Cousins...So a couple months ago

He said "on Irving's level". They are all better than Irving.

Ainge passed on all of them, So I am pretty sure he finds KI better.

Yeah, which is precisely why we should fire his ass if this doesn't work out.

He said "on Irving's level". They are all better than Irving.

I don't think that is even remotely true.

k

Come on people pay attention. They didn't go after Butler or PG13 because they didn't want to mess with the cap to go after Hayward. They most likely would have taken a chance on PG13 after Hayward committed, but Indy was itchy and made the move before the C's could do anything. And with the LA rumblings with PG13 I could see why they didn't want to jump all over that.

Boogie is a mess. MVP talent, toddler mentality.

And WE don't get to fire ANYone, WE don't own the team, and the guy who pushed this, was one of the owners. So if it doesn't work out, DA's job will still be there.

I don't know why people are flipping out about this. We get younger and a friendlier contract, and I doubt we were signing IT. DA would have done 3 years with team option for a 4th, and IT would have wanted 5 year.

It's a good trade for both teams. Yeah the Nets pick hurt, but I have a feeling that was going to have to go in most trades like this or teams like INDY would go some wheres else out of spite. But looking at how the Nets played last year, and how they got a little better this year, and how bad the East is and having teams like Chi, and Indy now tanking with Atl, and being bad with Orlando,NY, and then teams like Philly, Detroit and Miami fighting for the bottle seeds, the LA pick might be better, wish it didn't have the protections of top 1(after the 5th pick doesn't matter much). And LA going to be in a dog fight for wins in the West.

 

[Phantom255x]

"The thing is, Kyrie has NOT proven he can be a true alpha yet and even the last 2 years, when Irving played and Lebron didn't, the Cavs were GARBAGE and had an abysmal 4-23 record."

Kyrie is 25.  Before Lebron, he was 22 years old with no help or stability.  He's been coached by the likes of Blatt and Lue, but not by CBS, who took an undersized bench scorer who was drafted last in the second round, and turned him into a 2 time all-star and a top 5 MVP candidate. 

Call me a homer who is drinking the green Kool-Aid, but I think Irving comes here with much of the same criticism (and upside) as James Harden did when he was traded to Houston.  Lots of similarities (a score-first guard who was playing in the shadows of an elite forward). 

The Celtics are a rarity in this league in the sense that they are building around a coach and not a player.  Let's give Brad the players he wants, and see what he can do with them.  I'm gonna let this one play out for 2-3 seasons before I jump off the bridge of negativity every other fan seems to.

That's my hope.

That Kyrie elevates his game sort of like Harden or even Westbrook, of course with better defense and better playmaking abilities (good team ball, not always hero ball unless its final shot of the game lol).

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Uh...the fact the article is on B/R ought to tell you it isn't worth reading, let alone putting any stock into.

It's a sad day when B/R passes for legit journalism.

That was the case a few years ago, when all their stuff was fan-sourced. Now they've got some actual writers with NBA connections. Beck, for instance, has written for The NY Times and the LA Daily News.

It wasn't many years ago that I was a sports copy editor for the news group that owns the LADN, and I can confirm that being a writer for the LADN by no means makes you a good writer.

[green_bballers13]

Of course he has some flaws. Take away those flaws and he's Stephen Curry.

Shocked? Look at their offensive numbers last year playing alongside Durant/LeBron. Steph is one tick above.

A motivated Irving with a new coach, new teammates, new ownership, new fans absolutely has MVP potential. If he was already an MVP, he wouldn't be available at any price.

Overpaid? Please. That's sour grapes. When's the last time a player on Irving's level was traded for less?

Paul George, Jimmy Bulter, Demarcus Cousins...So a couple months ago

He said "on Irving's level". They are all better than Irving.

Ainge passed on all of them, So I am pretty sure he finds KI better.

Yeah, which is precisely why we should fire his ass if this doesn't work out.

He said "on Irving's level". They are all better than Irving.

I don't think that is even remotely true.

k

Come on people pay attention. They didn't go after Butler or PG13 because they didn't want to mess with the cap to go after Hayward. They most likely would have taken a chance on PG13 after Hayward committed, but Indy was itchy and made the move before the C's could do anything. And with the LA rumblings with PG13 I could see why they didn't want to jump all over that.

Boogie is a mess. MVP talent, toddler mentality.

And WE don't get to fire ANYone, WE don't own the team, and the guy who pushed this, was one of the owners. So if it doesn't work out, DA's job will still be there.

I don't know why people are flipping out about this. We get younger and a friendlier contract, and I doubt we were signing IT. DA would have done 3 years with team option for a 4th, and IT would have wanted 5 year.

It's a good trade for both teams. Yeah the Nets pick hurt, but I have a feeling that was going to have to go in most trades like this or teams like INDY would go some wheres else out of spite. But looking at how the Nets played last year, and how they got a little better this year, and how bad the East is and having teams like Chi, and Indy now tanking with Atl, and being bad with Orlando,NY, and then teams like Philly, Detroit and Miami fighting for the bottle seeds, the LA pick might be better, wish it didn't have the protections of top 1(after the 5th pick doesn't matter much). And LA going to be in a dog fight for wins in the West.

People are willing to accept some things (Kyrie hasn't been a very good defender) that work against the Celtics, yet are unwilling to accept the premise that we weren't getting a better PG (IT included) in 2017. It wasn't going to happen. Danny wanted to trade IT for something before he walked.

Seriously naysayers, what other PG should we have traded for?

To get into the next tier (Steph Curry, Westbrook), what would we have had to give up?

[littleteapot]

Seriously naysayers, what other PG should we have traded for?

To get into the next tier (Steph Curry, Westbrook), what would we have had to give up?

I don't think we need an elite point guard. I'd rather just let IT walk, acquire a point guard who is serviceable and either hang on to my assets until I pick a guy with them, or wait for a trade for a 2-way star who can play the bigger positions.

This is especially true for us while we have one of the best passing big guys in Al Horford and we usually have lineups and scheme with several wings/bigs moving the ball around.

[KG Living Legend]

 You know who's really not an Alpha anything. Howard Beck. What a troll.

[nickagneta]

The thing that gives me hope that Kyrie could explode to superstar status like Harden did is that he won't be playing in an iso heavy, half court set that had limited ball movement. I think with Stevens' offense with Horford, Hayward, and Morris will give Kyrie more open looks, more open lanes to drive and more opportunities to pass to high quality open shooters.

It can be argued that Kyrie is the second best player in the Eastern Conference and Hayward the third. I think their eventual chemistry with Horford's passing is going to make Boston a top offense in the league.

Now let's just hope Stevens can bring out the average to good defender that Irving has shown himself to be on occassions.

[Phantom255x]

The thing that gives me hope that Kyrie could explode to superstar status like Harden did is that he won't be playing in an iso heavy, half court set that had limited ball movement. I think with Stevens' offense with Horford, Hayward, and Morris will give Kyrie more open looks, more open lanes to drive and more opportunities to pass to high quality open shooters.

It can be argued that Kyrie is the second best player in the Eastern Conference and Hayward the third. I think their eventual chemistry with Horford's passing is going to make Boston a top offense in the league.

Now let's just hope Stevens can bring out the average to good defender that Irving has shown himself to be on occassions.

TP. Very well said.

And with Kyrie you may not always have to hide him on defense like you did Isaiah. The main difference I see is that Kyrie chooses not to play defense even though he can play a bit. Isaiah just can't, because of his size. Still love The Little Guy and think this wasn't a great trade, but that's reality too.

However the part I disagree with. Hayward 3rd best in conference?? Nope. Forget the Greek Freak?

[nickagneta]

The thing that gives me hope that Kyrie could explode to superstar status like Harden did is that he won't be playing in an iso heavy, half court set that had limited ball movement. I think with Stevens' offense with Horford, Hayward, and Morris will give Kyrie more open looks, more open lanes to drive and more opportunities to pass to high quality open shooters.

It can be argued that Kyrie is the second best player in the Eastern Conference and Hayward the third. I think their eventual chemistry with Horford's passing is going to make Boston a top offense in the league.

Now let's just hope Stevens can bring out the average to good defender that Irving has shown himself to be on occassions.

TP. Very well said.

And with Kyrie you may not always have to hide him on defense like you did Isaiah. The main difference I see is that Kyrie chooses not to play defense even though he can play a bit. Isaiah just can't, because of his size. Still love The Little Guy and think this wasn't a great trade, but that's reality too.

However the part I disagree with. Hayward 3rd best in conference?? Nope. Forget the Greek Freak?

Yeah, I forgot about him. A case could be made for Wall and a healthy Isaiah too.

[Phantom255x]

The thing that gives me hope that Kyrie could explode to superstar status like Harden did is that he won't be playing in an iso heavy, half court set that had limited ball movement. I think with Stevens' offense with Horford, Hayward, and Morris will give Kyrie more open looks, more open lanes to drive and more opportunities to pass to high quality open shooters.

It can be argued that Kyrie is the second best player in the Eastern Conference and Hayward the third. I think their eventual chemistry with Horford's passing is going to make Boston a top offense in the league.

Now let's just hope Stevens can bring out the average to good defender that Irving has shown himself to be on occassions.

TP. Very well said.

And with Kyrie you may not always have to hide him on defense like you did Isaiah. The main difference I see is that Kyrie chooses not to play defense even though he can play a bit. Isaiah just can't, because of his size. Still love The Little Guy and think this wasn't a great trade, but that's reality too.

However the part I disagree with. Hayward 3rd best in conference?? Nope. Forget the Greek Freak?

Yeah, I forgot about him. A case could be made for Wall and a healthy Isaiah too.

Yep Wall could possibly be there too. Same with a healthy Isaiah based on last year's stats.

But the Greek Freak is a whole new animal. And he's only going to get better, which is a scary thought for everyone, including us...