Bleacher: NBA Insiders DOUBT Irving Is Worth What C's Paid (Not A True Alpha)

[azzenfrost]

C's overpaid. And that's fine. The goal is to win championships, not to win every single trade.

[TheSundanceKid]

Critics—and there were many—called it an overpay made all the more puzzling by Ainge’s reticence to include that Nets pick in potential deals for Paul George and Jimmy Butler, both of whom are significantly better than Irving.

Both of whom are significantly better than Irving?? George is also a massive flight risk, as shown by the price he went for. Butler has got to be one of the most overrated stars in the league based on recent commentary, since when has he become even as good as a Ray Allen in his prime?

I would have been fuming if Ainge has used the Nets pick on either of those guys, as would most of the board I expect? People weren't willing to trade Brown for Butler either.

What we have achieved in this trade, and it's really being ignored, is get a star player who is much closer in age to our Nets' picks and also already a proven winner. This to go along with another one in Hayward just a year older.

You can argue about us being less competitive this year but if Isaiah struggles with injury then that's hard to prove anyway. In years 2-5 we should be much better and younger and cheaper. The Nets pick is the unknown here but even if that falls top 3 the player wasn't helping advance our window until year 3 onwards from now. And a likely consequence would've been losing Smart, taking a further step back.

In the balance of things, this trade has improved us and enabled us to make the future moves that keep us at least at this level of competitiveness, something we couldn't have done had we kept IT.

[Casperian]

C's overpaid. And that's fine. The goal is to win championships, not to win every single trade.

Exactly, which is precisely why it's not "fine". This clown posse isn't winning anything.

Anyone think we got all these Duke boys because Pags and his family are all dukies? Seems like Coach K found another sucker.

[Bucketgetter]

Of course he has some flaws. Take away those flaws and he's Stephen Curry.

Shocked? Look at their offensive numbers last year playing alongside Durant/LeBron. Steph is one tick above.

A motivated Irving with a new coach, new teammates, new ownership, new fans absolutely has MVP potential. If he was already an MVP, he wouldn't be available at any price.

Overpaid? Please. That's sour grapes. When's the last time a player on Irving's level was traded for less?

Paul George, Jimmy Bulter, Demarcus Cousins...So a couple months ago

[Casperian]

Of course he has some flaws. Take away those flaws and he's Stephen Curry.

Shocked? Look at their offensive numbers last year playing alongside Durant/LeBron. Steph is one tick above.

A motivated Irving with a new coach, new teammates, new ownership, new fans absolutely has MVP potential. If he was already an MVP, he wouldn't be available at any price.

Overpaid? Please. That's sour grapes. When's the last time a player on Irving's level was traded for less?

Paul George, Jimmy Bulter, Demarcus Cousins...So a couple months ago

He said "on Irving's level". They are all better than Irving.

[Androslav]

Of course he has some flaws. Take away those flaws and he's Stephen Curry.

Shocked? Look at their offensive numbers last year playing alongside Durant/LeBron. Steph is one tick above.

A motivated Irving with a new coach, new teammates, new ownership, new fans absolutely has MVP potential. If he was already an MVP, he wouldn't be available at any price.

Overpaid? Please. That's sour grapes. When's the last time a player on Irving's level was traded for less?

Paul George, Jimmy Bulter, Demarcus Cousins...So a couple months ago

He said "on Irving's level". They are all better than Irving.

Ainge passed on all of them, So I am pretty sure he finds KI better.

[chambers]

Not many guys average 28ppg and 5 assists in 2 straight finals appearances at 25 years old with a full 2 years locked up under contract.

[TheSundanceKid]

Of course he has some flaws. Take away those flaws and he's Stephen Curry.

Shocked? Look at their offensive numbers last year playing alongside Durant/LeBron. Steph is one tick above.

A motivated Irving with a new coach, new teammates, new ownership, new fans absolutely has MVP potential. If he was already an MVP, he wouldn't be available at any price.

Overpaid? Please. That's sour grapes. When's the last time a player on Irving's level was traded for less?

Paul George, Jimmy Bulter, Demarcus Cousins...So a couple months ago

He said "on Irving's level". They are all better than Irving.

He bitterness here is crazy. When the Butler rumours were flying around posters were talking the other way around. With George it's less clear but you also have to factor in that he is going to LA. Against all logic, so why give up your best asset for a 1 year rental? To think we would have changed his mind makes us full of ourselves.

[__ramonezy__]

Ahmmm... am I the only one that actually read the OP article... it's slanted and heavily biased to prove a point. Don't care if it's written by Beck, it's deceptive and subtly removes context from facts to make Kyrie look bad.

Statements like:
And Irving is positively awful defensively, according to just about every available defensive metric—“a train wreck,” in the words of one Cavs official. He ranked 28th among starting point guards last season, per one team’s proprietary metrics.

WTH is the team's proprietary metric? Steps per screen?

Here's more great, journalistic insight:
To wit: No other team appeared willing to part with an All-Star or a high lottery pick to get Irving.

Teams that trade for All stars are normally contenders, teams with high draft picks are normally rebuilding. Why would a rebuilding team trade a high draft pick? Not even for Lebron and that doesn't mean he isn't a star. Contending teams aren't trying to swap All stars, they're trying to compile them. The uniqueness of our position being a contender with a high draft pick and an all star on a different timeline is the stars aligning for us... but definitely not the norm.

Here's another beauty :
The Cavaliers went 4-23 over the last three seasons when James didn’t play.

The team was solely built around LBJ of course removing him will have disastrous effects, cuz Kyrie isn't LBJ. That's like blaming Horford for us losing games if IT went out last season.

The changing definition of a superstar by media is ridiculous, worse when we put any merit to it.

[moiso]

Of course he has some flaws. Take away those flaws and he's Stephen Curry.

Shocked? Look at their offensive numbers last year playing alongside Durant/LeBron. Steph is one tick above.

A motivated Irving with a new coach, new teammates, new ownership, new fans absolutely has MVP potential. If he was already an MVP, he wouldn't be available at any price.

Overpaid? Please. That's sour grapes. When's the last time a player on Irving's level was traded for less?

Paul George, Jimmy Bulter, Demarcus Cousins...So a couple months ago

He said "on Irving's level". They are all better than Irving.

Ainge passed on all of them, So I am pretty sure he finds KI better.

Not necessarily.  There are reports that Ainge felt that he had to get the Hayward deal done as his first domino to fall.  The Pacers were impatient and didn't wait.  Plus there was the risk that George bolts after the year.  There were also reports that Ainge felt that Butler and Hayward could clash on the court and off the court.  As for Cousins- they probably didn't want to risk that a benign tumor would become malignant on the team.

[moiso]

Of course he has some flaws. Take away those flaws and he's Stephen Curry.

Shocked? Look at their offensive numbers last year playing alongside Durant/LeBron. Steph is one tick above.

A motivated Irving with a new coach, new teammates, new ownership, new fans absolutely has MVP potential. If he was already an MVP, he wouldn't be available at any price.

Overpaid? Please. That's sour grapes. When's the last time a player on Irving's level was traded for less?

Paul George, Jimmy Bulter, Demarcus Cousins...So a couple months ago

He said "on Irving's level". They are all better than Irving.

He bitterness here is crazy. When the Butler rumours were flying around posters were talking the other way around. With George it's less clear but you also have to factor in that he is going to LA. Against all logic, so why give up your best asset for a 1 year rental? To think we would have changed his mind makes us full of ourselves.

Bitterness?  I think it's just a funny post.

[konkmv]

if 3 years ago someone told us that the celtics would have hayward irving horford smart brown tatum and may more picks to come.... we would be delighted....
i do not mind to overpay in a trade after underpaying in many trades...

[Celtics4ever]

He said "on Irving's level". They are all better than Irving.

I don't think that is even remotely true.

Paul George, Jimmy Bulter, Demarcus Cousins..

It is easy to put up numbers when you're the only good team on a team.   How many finals game winning shots has any of these guys hit?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html 

Irving has done it on good and bad teams.   

[screwedupmaniac]

"The thing is, Kyrie has NOT proven he can be a true alpha yet and even the last 2 years, when Irving played and Lebron didn't, the Cavs were GARBAGE and had an abysmal 4-23 record."

Kyrie is 25.  Before Lebron, he was 22 years old with no help or stability.  He's been coached by the likes of Blatt and Lue, but not by CBS, who took an undersized bench scorer who was drafted last in the second round, and turned him into a 2 time all-star and a top 5 MVP candidate. 

Call me a homer who is drinking the green Kool-Aid, but I think Irving comes here with much of the same criticism (and upside) as James Harden did when he was traded to Houston.  Lots of similarities (a score-first guard who was playing in the shadows of an elite forward). 

The Celtics are a rarity in this league in the sense that they are building around a coach and not a player.  Let's give Brad the players he wants, and see what he can do with them.  I'm gonna let this one play out for 2-3 seasons before I jump off the bridge of negativity every other fan seems to. 

[Rich]

if 3 years ago someone told us that the celtics would have hayward irving horford smart brown tatum and may more picks to come.... we would be delighted....
i do not mind to overpay in a trade after underpaying in many trades...

I agree with this.  Even if we overpaid (which remains to be seen)...We got the best player in the deal.  Thanks to IT, Jae for everything they did for us (I was admittedly shell shocked while eating dinner when the deal was breaking), but lets see how this shakes out.  Kyrie is being given keys to the kingdom now...Let's see if he takes his game to a superstar level.