POLL:Who do you think wins this trade?

[Green-18]

Cleveland.

The difference between Kyrie and IT isn't Crowder, Zizic, the BRK pick, and a #2.

IT and Kyrie are similarly great, and similarly flawed. I'd ride or die with the guy who showed that he can carry a team.

Great way to put it for the next couple years at least.  It's a little annoying how everyone is now harping on Isaiah's hip injury now.  Every player has injuries and Irving has had more than his share.  Some of the same people who have said they would like to trade for a guy like Jabari Parker are probably some of the same ones who claim that we had to move on from Isaiah due to his hip. 

I understand the age difference is to the Celtics benefit and they may not have wanted to bring out the brinks truck, but we gave up an awful lot.  I guess I will try to be content from the Celtics side of things, but it was an absolutely amazing deal for Cleveland.

I would have agreed with both you a couple months ago but I definitely believe my bias got in the way.  I have looked for ANY reason to bash the Cavs over the past few years.  Despite Kyrie's flaws I think it's important to consider the positive impact that a new situation under Brad Stevens could have.  Kyrie has the tools to be much more than an elite ISO scorer.  I don't believe it's unreasonable to expect his scoring efficiency to jump up significantly.  I also think his overall defense will improve because Brad will get him to buy in.  The only thing that holds Kyrie back from being an upgrade is his attitude.  I am deciding to give him the benefit of the doubt and trust that he will buy in.   

The foundation we have built in Boston is far stronger than the LeBron driven mess in Cleveland.  LeBron is able to cover up a lot of flaws because he is the best player in the NBA. 

With that said, you will not see me say one bad thing about IT.  It's ridiculous that a lot of people are bashing IT and changing their tune now that he is gone.  To me this trade is more about highlighting the upside of Irving.  I don't need to find flaws in IT's game to do that. 

[PAOBoston]

Cleveland.

The difference between Kyrie and IT isn't Crowder, Zizic, the BRK pick, and a #2.

IT and Kyrie are similarly great, and similarly flawed. I'd ride or die with the guy who showed that he can carry a team.

So do you feel Kyrie has hit his ceiling?

In the important areas, yes.

Anything in particular that leads you to your conclusion? I believe Irving has warts but I'm also intrigued by how he'll be affected by the Brad Stevens effect. I think there's another gear there with Irving and the Boston environment is stable enough to maybe bring that out.

[makaveli]

you can't really put it that way. There are factors to consider
PROS
you don't wanna pay IT max money
crowder wasn't gonna work
you get the young fellas extra minutes
you get a 25 year old superstar
CONS
team chemistry right now is zero
you gotta feel bad about IT
the Nets pick(but it is yet to be determined is this a real CON)


i will take those PROS any day...

[2short]

Cleveland.

The difference between Kyrie and IT isn't Crowder, Zizic, the BRK pick, and a #2.

IT and Kyrie are similarly great, and similarly flawed. I'd ride or die with the guy who showed that he can carry a team.

So do you feel Kyrie has hit his ceiling?

In the important areas, yes.

Anything in particular that leads you to your conclusion? I believe Irving has warts but I'm also intrigued by how he'll be affected by the Brad Stevens effect. I think there's another gear there with Irving and the Boston environment is stable enough to maybe bring that out.

This
Isiah went from sub to all star.  Evan Turner went from bust to rich!  Crawford etc
I think Irving has another level to hit.

Also think of playoffs, opposing team makes Thomas switch onto bigger guy.  Guy turns, shoots over Thomas.  Pretty simple, pretty tough, we'd have to double.  Let Cleveland have that come playoff time

[Erik]

Cavs = not convinced in Kyrie. Too flawed a star and has not improved much over last few years. That Brooklyn pick is too valuable. Gives CLE a strong chance at another all-star caliber talent alongside Isaiah Thomas. Plus a good starter in Crowder. A decent big man prospect in Zizic. Yeez ... ugh ...

if you're talking about cultivating a rookie to play alongside IT you're delusional with respect to ITs timeline of greatness. He's projected to be washed up in a few years when his body slows down and he can't rely on blowing past people anymore (he already needs picks to do it). How many NBA players do you know that just shoot 3s and play 0 defense? That's where IT is headed, I'm sorry to say. Is he worth a max contract? Probably, because apparently so is Otto Porter (). But you know signing it that the last half is going to be "Oh god when is this going to end."

If you're talking about trading it for an all star player, who is on the trade market? Maybe they can pry Bledsoe from the suns and get rid of some of their crappier contracts plus crowder. Probably the best they can do with it. But then you've essentially traded kyrie for Bledsoe IT and stuff. Makes us look even better.

[Green-18]

Cleveland.

The difference between Kyrie and IT isn't Crowder, Zizic, the BRK pick, and a #2.

IT and Kyrie are similarly great, and similarly flawed. I'd ride or die with the guy who showed that he can carry a team.

So do you feel Kyrie has hit his ceiling?

In the important areas, yes.

Anything in particular that leads you to your conclusion? I believe Irving has warts but I'm also intrigued by how he'll be affected by the Brad Stevens effect. I think there's another gear there with Irving and the Boston environment is stable enough to maybe bring that out.

This
Isiah went from sub to all star.  Evan Turner went from bust to rich!  Crawford etc
I think Irving has another level to hit.

Also think of playoffs, opposing team makes Thomas switch onto bigger guy.  Guy turns, shoots over Thomas.  Pretty simple, pretty tough, we'd have to double.  Let Cleveland have that come playoff time

I think there's an outside shot that Kyrie approaches Steph Curry levels of efficiency under Brad.  I am NOT saying that he will ever be quite as good because Curry was able to be efficient with extremely high volume.  However, I don't think 50/43-45/90 is out of the question.  I expect Kyrie to average close to 25 PPG on slightly lower volume than in Cleveland last season.

[2short]

I think Irving on Olympic team is what we should be looking towards, coach k running the team and a team game.

[Celtics4ever]

We did assuming IT's recovery is slow and Kyrie signs here.   CLE could very well blow the pick ala Anthony Bennett.

[Roy H.]

Cleveland.

The difference between Kyrie and IT isn't Crowder, Zizic, the BRK pick, and a #2.

IT and Kyrie are similarly great, and similarly flawed. I'd ride or die with the guy who showed that he can carry a team.

So do you feel Kyrie has hit his ceiling?

In the important areas, yes.

Anything in particular that leads you to your conclusion? I believe Irving has warts but I'm also intrigued by how he'll be affected by the Brad Stevens effect. I think there's another gear there with Irving and the Boston environment is stable enough to maybe bring that out.

I've been a Kyrie supporter since he came into the league. As a rookie, he was putting up unprecedented efficiency numbers for a guard. I learned everything I could about the guy, and watched a ton of his games. I drafted him in the CelticsBlog Draft, and won a title. Then, he was the centerpiece pipe built around in the DKC Draft. The guy was a huge binkie of mine.

And I kept arguing that his defense and passing were underrated, and that they would improve. I pulled up quotes from Byron Scott comparing Kyrie favorably to Chris Paul. I blamed the organization, teammates, and the coaching staff for his seeming inmaturity and inability to carry the team.

Here we are, several years later. He has exactly the same strengths and flaws as he has always had. And if you look at his numbers, he really isn't that much better than he was as a rookie. The kid that showed MVP potential seemingly has topped out as a perennial All-Star, but not a top-5 guy. 

And I think it is unrealistic to expect a giant leap from him.  He has never bought into defense previously, even with defense oriented coaches. He has never shown the ability to be a floor general. It's a matter of instinct and vision, and I don't think that he possesses those skills.

Until Kyrie shows improvement, I'm assuming that we traded for a great-but-not-MVP-caliber PG. We already had one of those on the roster.

[Erik]

We did assuming IT's recovery is slow and Kyrie signs here.   CLE could very well blow the pick ala Anthony Bennett.

Even if they keep the pick and hit on it, Lebron will be gone or 36 by the time he's relevant. I'm not worried about the Cavs at all in a few years. It's going to be Celtics vs how low can Golden state warriors players sign contracts.

They're a terrible organization that had LeBron luckily  fall on their lap twice. I'm more worried about the bucks and sixers in the east.

[SHAQATTACK]

Danny got the person he wanted , obviously he thought Irving was worth the price and signing Thomas for a huge contract was not the best deal for long term.

Thomas will be aged out and Irving in the middle of his prime. 

Im sure having a younger star point guard like Irving is more of a " A. Davis ". lure than Thomas will be eventually.

IT works for the short term......but is not the best long term option in my opinion.  health . size , age are going to go against him.

Guards Irvings caliber and age are rarely available at any price .   Most are 30 plus when they are let go .  Rondo, DWill , Rose ...all used up.    Lillard ,Wall , Westbrooke ...can't buy them.

I think Danny is readying a situation for A. Davis that is customed tailored for him to walk right into as the obvious missing piece on a contending team.

If Tatum and Smart take off .....This could be the start of a powerhouse team with Davis one day.


Lebron makes his final stand with the Lakers

[Granath]

Bunch o' Optimists


Sadly, the truth is a bit different. The Cs only win this trade if:

1. Kyrie elevates his game and becomes the #1 stud that Ainge is hoping he can be. That means being a team leader, playing at least acceptable defense, proving he can score when he's focus of the defense and doing the other little things that truly elevate a player. I know there's a bunch of faith in Brad on this board - and for good reason - but these things aren't guaranteed. They're really up to Irving and he hasn't done them yet on his own even while having Lebron as a role model (someone who has done those things).

-OR-

2. IT turns out to be damaged goods and the Brooklyn pick is outside the top 5.


Boston loses this trade if:

1. IT plays similarly to Irving for the next 3-4 years. I've already said that I expect IT's game to fall off a cliff so I don't expect this to happen but I won't count the little guy out.

2. Irving doesn't re-sign with the Celtics. This is the absolute disaster scenario for the Cs. If they don't retain Kyrie then this will go down as perhaps the worst trade ever made in the NBA because it will kill a contending franchise. That's not hyperbole. That's reality.

3. The Brooklyn pick turns out to be 1-3 and that player ends up being better than Irving. If it ends up being #1 and Cleveland gets Bagley then this is an absolute loss.

4. Zizic ends up being an All-Star. Unlikely but it still has to be said.

Obviously some of these aren't mutually exclusive and thus the trade could be a wash.

Ainge just pushed all of his cards into the center of the table. I'm not so sure this was the hand to do it on but it is what it is.

[Csfan1984]

Cavs won if you think Irving had to be traded.

C's won if you think that the team with the best player wins the trade.

[hwangjini_1]

The OP forgot to put an option for "both."

[Green-18]

Bunch o' Optimists


Sadly, the truth is a bit different. The Cs only win this trade if:

1. Kyrie elevates his game and becomes the #1 stud that Ainge is hoping he can be. That means being a team leader, playing at least acceptable defense, proving he can score when he's focus of the defense and doing the other little things that truly elevate a player. I know there's a bunch of faith in Brad on this board - and for good reason - but these things aren't guaranteed. They're really up to Irving and he hasn't done them yet on his own even while having Lebron as a role model (someone who has done those things).

-OR-

2. IT turns out to be damaged goods and the Brooklyn pick is outside the top 5.


Boston loses this trade if:

1. IT plays similarly to Irving for the next 3-4 years. I've already said that I expect IT's game to fall off a cliff so I don't expect this to happen but I won't count the little guy out.

2. Irving doesn't re-sign with the Celtics. This is the absolute disaster scenario for the Cs. If they don't retain Kyrie then this will go down as perhaps the worst trade ever made in the NBA because it will kill a contending franchise. That's not hyperbole. That's reality.

3. The Brooklyn pick turns out to be 1-3 and that player ends up being better than Irving. If it ends up being #1 and Cleveland gets Bagley then this is an absolute loss.

4. Zizic ends up being an All-Star. Unlikely but it still has to be said.

Obviously some of these aren't mutually exclusive and thus the trade could be a wash.

Ainge just pushed all of his cards into the center of the table. I'm not so sure this was the hand to do it on but it is what it is.

It's hard to not be an optimist with the Ownership, GM, and Coach that we have.  We can always criticize details throughout individual season.  That's what makes it fun to be a sports fan.  However, on a macro level this team has been improving year after year.  Brad tends to elevate and bring out the best in players.  Until there's a setback what reason do I have to believe it wont work?