Author Topic: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade  (Read 11679 times)

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Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2017, 11:13:45 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I find it absolutely hilarious people actually think Ray left the Celtics for "business" reasons. That was in no way his main motivation.   If it was he would have been much more professional in the way he went about it.

Ray left the Celtics over a personal vendetta, and going to Miami, in the manner he did, was his way of getting back at them.

It wasn't business, it was personal.

Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2017, 11:15:14 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Its funny how the two "guiltys" Allen and Lebron .... Were the 1st ones making a noise about this trade

Lebron better stay or worst case leave some assets for the Cavs (via trade)...bc he will never will be welcomed back to Cleveland if he leaves again

The nicest thing Lebron could do for the Cavs is waive his NTC. He will always be welcomed back to Cleveland since he won them a championship, but he would be a superhero if he helped them bring in more potential lottery picks/top young players.

Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2017, 11:20:07 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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How hard is it to know the difference between a player being TRADED to the team that beat them by a GM, and a player DEFECTING the team and taking less money for a team that beat them?


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Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2017, 11:22:36 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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How hard is it to know the difference between a player being TRADED to the team that beat them by a GM, and a player DEFECTING the team and taking less money for a team that beat them?

TP......nobody ever said he was smart.

Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2017, 11:25:39 PM »

Offline liam

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How hard is it to know the difference between a player being TRADED to the team that beat them by a GM, and a player DEFECTING the team and taking less money for a team that beat them?

TP......nobody ever said he was smart.

I thought his name was Allen Ray. :o

Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2017, 11:27:30 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Ray Allen is right.

Still hate what he did, but he is right.

Not really....

Ray Allen was offered a contract to stay...instead he left to join the team that beat the Celts in the ECF

This was not about business... It was for selfish, me 1st reasons.

KD situation kind of the same but more about making it "easy" to win/buy a championship

An organization/team is bigger than one player or personnel... It is unfair but the way it is....

It was to win, and he won. And he didn't ride coattails to win, he made the biggest shot of his life. It was the right decision for him.

We hate that it was the right decision because we hated the Heat and we'd just come so close in the ECF, but it was. It sucks how it all went down but in that awkward period where the team broke up, if anybody played his cards right it was Ray Allen.

Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2017, 11:27:37 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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So my point was if all those clearly not MVP-level players (Big Al, Ty Lawson, David Lee) have actually received votes in the MVP voting and Kyrie hasn’t, how can you call him MVP Level. If you want to dismiss the MVP voting as a popularity contest that’s fine but 1. Kyrie is much more popular than those guys and 2. Don’t use "MVP Level Player” to describe Kyrie if you don’t like the MVP voting. Because you brought that up and called him that, not me. Call him something else that doesn’t include MVP.

As far as predicting how Kyrie does in Boston, that’s fine and I think he definitely will succeed, but I don’t judge him on how I think he will do with Boston. I judge him on the large sample size of 6 seasons he has already had in the league, which leads me to conclude that he is nowhere near MVP level.

But like I said earlier, I really hope he improves under Stevens and gets to that level.

You picked a metric (5th place MVP votes) and then showed that it's worthless (because guys like David Lee get random votes). That doesn't lead to "Kyrie can't even get a 5th place vote" unless you're already working under and assumption.

It just leads to... "5th place MVP votes are meaningless".

Also, rookies don't get MVP votes, and teammates of LeBron don't either. There goes half his career.
Except Kyrie hasn’t ever gotten a 5th place vote (or 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st) so it does lead there...

And “Teammates of Lebron don’t get votes either” is wrong too since D Wade finished in the voting multiple times while playing with Lebron.

Also I didn’t pick the metric of MVP votes. That would simply be the metric you use when discussing whether or not a player is MVP level.

MVP voting is pointless to analyse.  Derrick Rose got an MVP in a year when he didn't even come close to deserving it, simply because he was the best player on the best team, and because he happened to have a flashy, media friendly game while playing for a huge market team. 

This was in the same year that Chris Paul moved from New Orleans (formerly a playoff team) to the Clippers (formerly a lottery team) - and immediately after the move New Orleans turned garbage and the Clippers became a Playoff team.  Chris Paul single highhandedly turned the Clippers franchise around from the lottery doom it had faced seemingly for all eternity prior, and yet the MVP award was given to some flashy show-off who couldn't shoot, didn't defend, and who's team's record was almost as strong with him injured/missing as it was when he was playing.

But make no mistake - Kyrie Irving came in to the NBA and averaged about 19 / 5 / 4 as a rookie, which is very rare in this league.  Very few players have put up numbers like that in their rookie years, and those who have almost all went on to become legit superstars.

Derrick Rose won an MVP, and he has NEVER been as good an overall player as Kyrie is right now. So whether or not Kyrie is an MVP calibre player...I don't think it's even debatable personally.  I think that at this point, Kyrie and IT are both MVP calibre players on the right team.

P.s.
It's not much point arguing that Wade got MVP votes when he was in Miami with Lebron.  Dwyane Wade was arguably a top 3 player in the league at that time - hell there were times where I even made the argument he was better then Lebron.  I expect a prime D-Wade to get MVP votes on any team, no matter who he is playing with.

No - Kyrie is not as good as a prime Dwyane Wade.  He just isn't.  But that doesn't mean he isn't an MVP calibre player right now.     

Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2017, 11:28:47 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Ray Allen is right.

Still hate what he did, but he is right.

Not really....

Ray Allen was offered a contract to stay...instead he left to join the team that beat the Celts in the ECF

This was not about business... It was for selfish, me 1st reasons.

KD situation kind of the same but more about making it "easy" to win/buy a championship

An organization/team is bigger than one player or personnel... It is unfair but the way it is....

It was to win, and he won. And he didn't ride coattails to win, he made the biggest shot of his life. It was the right decision for him.

We hate that it was the right decision because we hated the Heat and we'd just come so close in the ECF, but it was. It sucks how it all went down but in that awkward period where the team broke up, if anybody played his cards right it was Ray Allen.
except ray wants respect from fans, and he wont get it. How do I know he wants the respect? Look at his continuous whining about Celtics fans to get over it. He thought we would just get over him turning his back on us

Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #68 on: August 28, 2017, 11:29:54 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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How hard is it to know the difference between a player being TRADED to the team that beat them by a GM, and a player DEFECTING the team and taking less money for a team that beat them?
Not sure how that is relevant to Ray Allen's criticism. He isn't calling out IT. Why do people keep responding this way?

Ray and Caron Butler are pointing out that management will dump a player at the drop of a hat if it helps the team, even if that player sacrificed for team success at the level of IT last season.

Which team Ray went to really is irrelevant. Why should he care that his former team lost to that team. What kind of narrow-minded reasoning is that? He should go to the team that will enjoy playing on. Clearly, he was not going to enjoy playing on a team that had Ainge as GM.

If you work for Google and your managed makes your job unpleasant, are you going to refuse to work at Apple because they are your former companies main competitor in the mobile space? Perhaps if you are the kind of person who feels the need to vilify the competition. If that is the kind of person you are, good luck with that.

If you are raging at Ray Allen, it is due to your tribalism. It is not because he did anything unreasonable.

Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2017, 11:34:11 PM »

Offline playdream

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Ray Allen is right.

Still hate what he did, but he is right.

Not really....

Ray Allen was offered a contract to stay...instead he left to join the team that beat the Celts in the ECF

This was not about business... It was for selfish, me 1st reasons.

KD situation kind of the same but more about making it "easy" to win/buy a championship

An organization/team is bigger than one player or personnel... It is unfair but the way it is....

It was to win, and he won. And he didn't ride coattails to win, he made the biggest shot of his life. It was the right decision for him.

We hate that it was the right decision because we hated the Heat and we'd just come so close in the ECF, but it was. It sucks how it all went down but in that awkward period where the team broke up, if anybody played his cards right it was Ray Allen.
except ray wants respect from fans, and he wont get it. How do I know he wants the respect? Look at his continuous whining about Celtics fans to get over it. He thought we would just get over him turning his back on us
Yeah it's funny you whining everytime and claim you made the right decision lol
GET OVER IT Ray, You lost your respects by making that decision, for ever

Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2017, 11:37:06 PM »

Offline liam

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How hard is it to know the difference between a player being TRADED to the team that beat them by a GM, and a player DEFECTING the team and taking less money for a team that beat them?
Not sure how that is relevant to Ray Allen's criticism. He isn't calling out IT. Why do people keep responding this way?

Ray and Caron Butler are pointing out that management will dump a player at the drop of a hat if it helps the team, even if that player sacrificed for team success at the level of IT last season.

Which team Ray went to really is irrelevant. Why should he care that his former team lost to that team. What kind of narrow-minded reasoning is that? He should go to the team that will enjoy playing on. Clearly, he was not going to enjoy playing on a team that had Ainge as GM.

If you work for Google and your managed makes your job unpleasant, are you going to refuse to work at Apple because they are your former companies main competitor in the mobile space? Perhaps if you are the kind of person who feels the need to vilify the competition. If that is the kind of person you are, good luck with that.

If you are raging at Ray Allen, it is due to your tribalism. It is not because he did anything unreasonable.

Ray Allen is sad to be still sniff around trying to get some love from fans he ditched. It's not going to happen. Ray should just man up and shut up.

Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #71 on: August 28, 2017, 11:42:35 PM »

Offline playdream

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How hard is it to know the difference between a player being TRADED to the team that beat them by a GM, and a player DEFECTING the team and taking less money for a team that beat them?
Not sure how that is relevant to Ray Allen's criticism. He isn't calling out IT. Why do people keep responding this way?

Ray and Caron Butler are pointing out that management will dump a player at the drop of a hat if it helps the team, even if that player sacrificed for team success at the level of IT last season.

Which team Ray went to really is irrelevant. Why should he care that his former team lost to that team. What kind of narrow-minded reasoning is that? He should go to the team that will enjoy playing on. Clearly, he was not going to enjoy playing on a team that had Ainge as GM.

If you work for Google and your managed makes your job unpleasant, are you going to refuse to work at Apple because they are your former companies main competitor in the mobile space? Perhaps if you are the kind of person who feels the need to vilify the competition. If that is the kind of person you are, good luck with that.

If you are raging at Ray Allen, it is due to your tribalism. It is not because he did anything unreasonable.

Ray Allen is sad to be still sniff around trying to get some love from fans he ditched. It's not going to happen. Ray should just man up and shut up.
You would think a grown man like Ray will know it's business at the end
He has the right to do what's best for him and the fans has the right to dislike him, that is all

Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #72 on: August 28, 2017, 11:52:27 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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How hard is it to know the difference between a player being TRADED to the team that beat them by a GM, and a player DEFECTING the team and taking less money for a team that beat them?
Not sure how that is relevant to Ray Allen's criticism. He isn't calling out IT. Why do people keep responding this way?

Ray and Caron Butler are pointing out that management will dump a player at the drop of a hat if it helps the team, even if that player sacrificed for team success at the level of IT last season.

Which team Ray went to really is irrelevant. Why should he care that his former team lost to that team. What kind of narrow-minded reasoning is that? He should go to the team that will enjoy playing on. Clearly, he was not going to enjoy playing on a team that had Ainge as GM.

If you work for Google and your managed makes your job unpleasant, are you going to refuse to work at Apple because they are your former companies main competitor in the mobile space? Perhaps if you are the kind of person who feels the need to vilify the competition. If that is the kind of person you are, good luck with that.

If you are raging at Ray Allen, it is due to your tribalism. It is not because he did anything unreasonable.

Problem with your example is that you are only talking about how it affects the company, not the people.

I've worked for companies before where the work environment was very high pressure, and the managers weren't all that pleasant - but we had an awesome team of guys, and they only way we all got through it and excelled as a unit was by working our butts off for each other. 

We would come in when we were sick so that we didn't leave the rest of the team a man short and make their life hell.  We would stay back to get extra work done if we had to so that the morning guys didn't have to struggle.  We all looked out for each other and had each other's backs.   

Eventually there came a day where, for financial reasons, I had to leave and find a higher paying job to cover my own lifestyle.  I did exactly that - but it wasn't easy, not becuase I cared about the company..but because I felt like I was letting down my teammates.  I knew that leaving was going to make things 10x harder on them every day, and I felt terrible for it.  I gave months of notice before I left so they had plenty of time to hire somebody, and I worked overtime on a daily basis to help document processes, train the new guy, and do anything I could to make that transition easier on the other guys in my team - and I still felt guilty.

Ray Allen walked out on his teammates without so much as a goodbye, and showed no signs of regret.  Then not only did he make the life of his teammates harder by leaving, he went and joined their greatest competitor and HELPED that competitor take the fight to them.  He did everything he possibly could to weaken his teammates, then when they were at their weakest he personally took out his dagger and stabbed them directly in the heart.

That's the difference.

The same is true of Lebron.  You think people dislike Lebron because he left Clevleand and went to Miami?  No.  People disliked Lebron because he made promises to Clevleand that he would never leave, and lied right to his fans metaphorical faces, then (without the slightest hint of an apology) announced his move to Miami via some self-absorbed TV spectacle...then rubbed it in their faces by hosting a victory parade of celebrations.  It was like Lebron promised the world to his fans, then said "physche!!!!!" and urinated in their faces.

It's not WHAT you do, it's how you do it. 

If Ray spoke to his teammates, took them all out to dinner, told them all in advance what he was planning to do - apologised in advance, explained to them why he had to do it (for family reasons, etc), them I'm sure they would have all understood and I'm sure they would have all respected his decision.   

Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #73 on: August 29, 2017, 02:24:22 AM »

Offline liam

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How hard is it to know the difference between a player being TRADED to the team that beat them by a GM, and a player DEFECTING the team and taking less money for a team that beat them?
Not sure how that is relevant to Ray Allen's criticism. He isn't calling out IT. Why do people keep responding this way?

Ray and Caron Butler are pointing out that management will dump a player at the drop of a hat if it helps the team, even if that player sacrificed for team success at the level of IT last season.

Which team Ray went to really is irrelevant. Why should he care that his former team lost to that team. What kind of narrow-minded reasoning is that? He should go to the team that will enjoy playing on. Clearly, he was not going to enjoy playing on a team that had Ainge as GM.

If you work for Google and your managed makes your job unpleasant, are you going to refuse to work at Apple because they are your former companies main competitor in the mobile space? Perhaps if you are the kind of person who feels the need to vilify the competition. If that is the kind of person you are, good luck with that.

If you are raging at Ray Allen, it is due to your tribalism. It is not because he did anything unreasonable.

Problem with your example is that you are only talking about how it affects the company, not the people.

I've worked for companies before where the work environment was very high pressure, and the managers weren't all that pleasant - but we had an awesome team of guys, and they only way we all got through it and excelled as a unit was by working our butts off for each other. 

We would come in when we were sick so that we didn't leave the rest of the team a man short and make their life hell.  We would stay back to get extra work done if we had to so that the morning guys didn't have to struggle.  We all looked out for each other and had each other's backs.   

Eventually there came a day where, for financial reasons, I had to leave and find a higher paying job to cover my own lifestyle.  I did exactly that - but it wasn't easy, not becuase I cared about the company..but because I felt like I was letting down my teammates.  I knew that leaving was going to make things 10x harder on them every day, and I felt terrible for it.  I gave months of notice before I left so they had plenty of time to hire somebody, and I worked overtime on a daily basis to help document processes, train the new guy, and do anything I could to make that transition easier on the other guys in my team - and I still felt guilty.

Ray Allen walked out on his teammates without so much as a goodbye, and showed no signs of regret.  Then not only did he make the life of his teammates harder by leaving, he went and joined their greatest competitor and HELPED that competitor take the fight to them.  He did everything he possibly could to weaken his teammates, then when they were at their weakest he personally took out his dagger and stabbed them directly in the heart.

That's the difference.

The same is true of Lebron.  You think people dislike Lebron because he left Clevleand and went to Miami?  No.  People disliked Lebron because he made promises to Clevleand that he would never leave, and lied right to his fans metaphorical faces, then (without the slightest hint of an apology) announced his move to Miami via some self-absorbed TV spectacle...then rubbed it in their faces by hosting a victory parade of celebrations.  It was like Lebron promised the world to his fans, then said "physche!!!!!" and urinated in their faces.

It's not WHAT you do, it's how you do it. 

If Ray spoke to his teammates, took them all out to dinner, told them all in advance what he was planning to do - apologised in advance, explained to them why he had to do it (for family reasons, etc), them I'm sure they would have all understood and I'm sure they would have all respected his decision.

Very well said.

Re: Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade
« Reply #74 on: August 29, 2017, 03:19:30 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Ray is right. He was responding to Caron Butler's post. He's mad about fans trashing players for leaving, but cheering when players are sent out of town against their will.

Danny did what he thought was best, trading IT and AB.  It's not loyalty, it's business. Ray did what he thought was best, too.

Did anyone cheer when IT was traded? I saw quite the opposite.

Ray seems to have beef with fans who don't control money or personnel decisions. "Where were y'all when the team tried to trade me?" What were the fans supposed to do? Storm the castle? He can't have it both ways - he can't get into petty spats on Instagram with fans and they claim "it's a business." Either you're above it or you're not.

Yes, about half this blog seems psyched that IT was traded. we got a 25 year old MVP-level point guard that isn't 5' 9" with bad hips and nearing 30.

 FTFY

And thus, people cheered when IT was traded. No hand-wringing about "loyalty", just a cold calculated move that treated IT like a commodity.

That's a fair way to look at players. Just don't get upset when they look out for themselves. For instance, why would any player ever play through an injury here? Why would any player take less money?
I get sad when I see this. Obviously you can be happy with the return, but can't fans at least stop and appreciate what the player has done for their team and not just flip 180 degrees and bash them immediately? I wish IT all the best in the next chapter of his career and will always be a fan of his with what he has donw with us.
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