Ray Allen trashes the Celtics after IT trade

[aingeforthree]

Ray Allen is right.

Still hate what he did, but he is right.

Yeah, God forbid Ainge upgrades the team with a trade.

You & old man Ray will ALWAYS be wrong with that argument. ALWAYS. I'd expect it from you but Ray has played in the league & should be smarter.

Probably just but hurt because Ainge would've traded him as well if he could've nabbed some more Brooklyn type assets before Ray bolted.

We have a darn smart GM & that's really all there is to it. Thank heavens our GM is not named Ray Allen.

what exactly do you think "Old man Ray's" argument is?

That's just it, he doesn't have one. He just runs off at the mouth.

It's like he doesn't know how a general manager should do his job ?

He might think he's legit Jesus and no team should ever trade him because there is no upgraded package over him (Thanks, Denzel) ?

It all stems from the season before he left & Ainge mulling over trading him in case he bolted. It's so weird to me that he doesn't understand the job.

It's ok though because our GM sure understands. Smart man, unlike Old Man Ray.

[Ilikesports17]

Ray is right. He was responding to Caron Butler's post. He's mad about fans trashing players for leaving, but cheering when players are sent out of town against their will.

Danny did what he thought was best, trading IT and AB.  It's not loyalty, it's business. Ray did what he thought was best, too.

Did anyone cheer when IT was traded? I saw quite the opposite.

Ray seems to have beef with fans who don't control money or personnel decisions. "Where were y'all when the team tried to trade me?" What were the fans supposed to do? Storm the castle? He can't have it both ways - he can't get into petty spats on Instagram with fans and they claim "it's a business." Either you're above it or you're not.

Yes, about half this blog seems psyched that IT was traded. we got a 25 year old MVP-level point guard that isn't 5' 9" with bad hips and nearing 30.

 FTFY

And thus, people cheered when IT was traded. No hand-wringing about "loyalty", just a cold calculated move that treated IT like a commodity.

That's a fair way to look at players. Just don't get upset when they look out for themselves. For instance, why would any player ever play through an injury here? Why would any player take less money?

because its not uncommon for those things to be in the best interest of the player.

Kyrie waived the trade kicker because he wanted to be here instead of Cleveland. He obviously felt that his career was best off here.

IT played through injury here because its his character. Because hes played his whole career and even life to get to the type of stage he was presented with in the Eastern Conference Finals. He wants to be a great player. Hes talked about that before. He knows legends are made in the playoffs and he made what he felt was the best decision for Isaiah Thomas.

Weve saw Ray Allen take less money and give up a NTC to go to Miami because he felt it was better for his career. No one does truly selfless things for an organization. Players make the best decision for them... always. Hayward took less money to come to Boston despite Utah offering a terrific organization and situation.

Lebron and Wade and Bosh all took paycuts to bring back Udonis Haslem because it was the best for their career.

A player passing up money for the sake of the organization and not themselves is incredibly rare.

[Ilikesports17]

Ray Allen is right.

Still hate what he did, but he is right.

Yeah, God forbid Ainge upgrades the team with a trade.

You & old man Ray will ALWAYS be wrong with that argument. ALWAYS. I'd expect it from you but Ray has played in the league & should be smarter.

Probably just but hurt because Ainge would've traded him as well if he could've nabbed some more Brooklyn type assets before Ray bolted.

We have a darn smart GM & that's really all there is to it. Thank heavens our GM is not named Ray Allen.

what exactly do you think "Old man Ray's" argument is?

That's just it, he doesn't have one. He just runs off at the mouth.

It's like he doesn't know how a general manager should do his job ?

He might think he's legit Jesus and no team should ever trade him because there is no upgraded package over him (Thanks, Denzel) ?

It all stems from the season before he left & Ainge mulling over trading him in case he bolted. It's so weird to me that he doesn't understand the job.

It's ok though because our GM sure understands. Smart man, unlike Old Man Ray.

See thats where you are wrong.

4 years ago, Ray Allen left a team that he didnt think had a chance to compete and went to one he thought did because it was best for his career. He was right. The '13 Celtics bowed out of the playoffs in 5 games and then were blown up with Doc going to LA, Pierce and KG moving to Brooklyn and the team plunging into the depths of the lotto.

Miami on the other hand won a ring, and Ray Allen was able to add one of the greatest shots in NBA history to his resume. It was a business. He made a business decision. Do what is best for Ray.

Yet we killed him for it. We moaned about loyalty and called him Benedict Allen. 4 years later, Danny Ainge moved a dude who truly bled Celtics green 2 months after he left his heart, soul and body on the floor in the playoffs... to a rival.

Yet now, its the fans saying "its a business". Very few are ripping Danny Ainge.

Rays argument is this:

I made a business decision and fans asked why I wasnt loyal.

4 years later, Danny makes a business decision, spitting in the face of loyalty, and fans laud it.

Its a double standard.

the differences are there (IT gets something in this act, while we were left with nothing when Ray left), but ultimately Rays argument is sound.

The real difference is that when Ray left, you didnt actually care about loyalty or any of that bullEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.. You were mad because the team was worse than it was the day before. Thats it.

[celticsclay]

Ray is just coming off as whiny at this point. Attacking some celtics fan boy in instagram this summer? Whining about the fans reaction a trade? I certainly wouldn't care about this stuff as a retired millionaire basketball player...

[Bucketgetter]

Ray is right. He was responding to Caron Butler's post. He's mad about fans trashing players for leaving, but cheering when players are sent out of town against their will.

Danny did what he thought was best, trading IT and AB.  It's not loyalty, it's business. Ray did what he thought was best, too.

Did anyone cheer when IT was traded? I saw quite the opposite.

Ray seems to have beef with fans who don't control money or personnel decisions. "Where were y'all when the team tried to trade me?" What were the fans supposed to do? Storm the castle? He can't have it both ways - he can't get into petty spats on Instagram with fans and they claim "it's a business." Either you're above it or you're not.

Yes, about half this blog seems psyched that IT was traded. we got a 25 year old MVP-level point guard that isn't 5' 9" with bad hips and nearing 30.

 FTFY

Hahaha, thats about as delusional as it gets.

Did you know that in Irving’s 6 years in the NBA he has not received one vote for MVP? NOT 1. 121 different people vote for their top 5 MVPs of the season. Kyrie has not been in any of those top 5s for his entire career. A couple of guys who actually HAVE received votes during that span? Demar Derozan, IT, Joe Johnson, David Lee, Ty Lawson, Al Jefferson, Mike Conley, Goran Dragic, Kyle Lowry. Do you think those guys were MVP candidates? Because all of them have actually been closer to an MVP than Irving.

Kyrie is without a doubt, NOT an MVP candidate. Here’s hoping he significantly improves his game so one day he might get there.

[GratefulCs]

i don't know of this "ray allen"


...

..

wait..

do you mean Allan Ray?


because he wasn't very good. his opinion shouldn't matter much

[Onslaught]

And Ray is 100% correct. The Celtics had him traded at one time but that didn’t work out. I’m fine with what he did to the Celtics. The only thing I’m not ok with was him not telling any of his teammates about it. That was a little strange. I thank him for helping win us #17.

[jpotter33]

Ray is right. He was responding to Caron Butler's post. He's mad about fans trashing players for leaving, but cheering when players are sent out of town against their will.

Danny did what he thought was best, trading IT and AB.  It's not loyalty, it's business. Ray did what he thought was best, too.

Did anyone cheer when IT was traded? I saw quite the opposite.

Ray seems to have beef with fans who don't control money or personnel decisions. "Where were y'all when the team tried to trade me?" What were the fans supposed to do? Storm the castle? He can't have it both ways - he can't get into petty spats on Instagram with fans and they claim "it's a business." Either you're above it or you're not.

Yes, about half this blog seems psyched that IT was traded. we got a 25 year old MVP-level point guard that isn't 5' 9" with bad hips and nearing 30.

 FTFY

And thus, people cheered when IT was traded. No hand-wringing about "loyalty", just a cold calculated move that treated IT like a commodity.

That's a fair way to look at players. Just don't get upset when they look out for themselves. For instance, why would any player ever play through an injury here? Why would any player take less money?

Ugh, had three whole paragraphs written out only for the site to bog down when I went to post it. 

Anyways, I'll just say that people aren't psyched about IT getting traded; they're psyched about getting a better and younger overall player. There's a major difference there. If we would've traded IT to a team with cap space for merely a second round pick, we would've unanimously been ticked off. This shows that people are less psyched about trading IT and more psyched about what he was traded for, even if some think we might've given too much.

As for the "loyalty" stuff, I think people exaggerate the virtue of loyalty in professional sports. Danny did nothing wrong by this, because he did what was best for the Boston Celtics, which is his only responsibility. And the same is true for IT. If he took more money from a lottery team just for the higher payday, that's not any breach of "loyalty," and that's perfectly fine. He owes the Celtics nothing in that regard.

IT doesn't owe Boston anything, just as Danny doesn't owe IT anything. The only things each should be concerned with is what is best for themselves (in Danny's case the Celtics).

[jpotter33]

Ray is right. He was responding to Caron Butler's post. He's mad about fans trashing players for leaving, but cheering when players are sent out of town against their will.

Danny did what he thought was best, trading IT and AB.  It's not loyalty, it's business. Ray did what he thought was best, too.

Did anyone cheer when IT was traded? I saw quite the opposite.

Ray seems to have beef with fans who don't control money or personnel decisions. "Where were y'all when the team tried to trade me?" What were the fans supposed to do? Storm the castle? He can't have it both ways - he can't get into petty spats on Instagram with fans and they claim "it's a business." Either you're above it or you're not.

Yes, about half this blog seems psyched that IT was traded. we got a 25 year old MVP-level point guard that isn't 5' 9" with bad hips and nearing 30.

 FTFY

Hahaha, thats about as delusional as it gets.

Did you know that in Irving’s 6 years in the NBA he has not received one vote for MVP? NOT 1. 121 different people vote for their top 5 MVPs of the season. Kyrie has not been in any of those top 5s for his entire career. A couple of guys who actually HAVE received votes during that span? Demar Derozan, IT, Joe Johnson, David Lee, Ty Lawson, Al Jefferson, Mike Conley, Goran Dragic, Kyle Lowry. Do you think those guys were MVP candidates? Because all of them have actually been closer to an MVP than Irving.

Kyrie is without a doubt, NOT an MVP candidate. Here’s hoping he significantly improves his game so one day he might get there.

I wonder why that is. Perhaps it's because in his first three years in the league he was 21 years old or younger on terrible lottery teams with hardly any talent, and in his last three years in the league he's shared the court with the best player of the current generation and another perennial All-Star type.

Besides, I said he's "MVP-level," not that he was a current MVP candidate. I fully expect him to make a jump in Boston under Stevens and in a better overall environment.

[Ogaju]

Ray Allen wants fans to act reasonably? He thinks if fans act reasonably he woukd have made millions of dollars  dribbling and shooting a basketball for a living?

[Bucketgetter]

Ray is right. He was responding to Caron Butler's post. He's mad about fans trashing players for leaving, but cheering when players are sent out of town against their will.

Danny did what he thought was best, trading IT and AB.  It's not loyalty, it's business. Ray did what he thought was best, too.

Did anyone cheer when IT was traded? I saw quite the opposite.

Ray seems to have beef with fans who don't control money or personnel decisions. "Where were y'all when the team tried to trade me?" What were the fans supposed to do? Storm the castle? He can't have it both ways - he can't get into petty spats on Instagram with fans and they claim "it's a business." Either you're above it or you're not.

Yes, about half this blog seems psyched that IT was traded. we got a 25 year old MVP-level point guard that isn't 5' 9" with bad hips and nearing 30.

 FTFY

Hahaha, thats about as delusional as it gets.

Did you know that in Irving’s 6 years in the NBA he has not received one vote for MVP? NOT 1. 121 different people vote for their top 5 MVPs of the season. Kyrie has not been in any of those top 5s for his entire career. A couple of guys who actually HAVE received votes during that span? Demar Derozan, IT, Joe Johnson, David Lee, Ty Lawson, Al Jefferson, Mike Conley, Goran Dragic, Kyle Lowry. Do you think those guys were MVP candidates? Because all of them have actually been closer to an MVP than Irving.

Kyrie is without a doubt, NOT an MVP candidate. Here’s hoping he significantly improves his game so one day he might get there.

I wonder why that is. Perhaps it's because in his first three years in the league he was 21 years old or younger on terrible lottery teams with hardly any talent, and in his last three years in the league he's shared the court with the best player of the current generation and another perennial All-Star type.

Besides, I said he's "MVP-level," not that he was a current MVP candidate. I fully expect him to make a jump in Boston under Stevens and in a better overall environment.

Well, you can’t have it both ways. You cant say he didn’t have enough talent on his team, and then say he has too much talent. This isn’t Goldilocks and the 3 bears. You’re not always going to have it juuuusstt right. Giannis finished in the voting last year as 21/22 year old, and the rest of his team was awful. Westbrook actually won it with a terrible supporting cast. Both KD and Curry finished in the voting, and the year before that Draymond did, and the year before that Klay did. All of them have either gotten votes or won it, and they are playing with 3/4 all stars. Wade was also able to finish in the voting multiple times playing with Lebron in Miami.

Also you would think that if Kyrie really was an “MVP level” player that he would have received at least 1 vote during his career. Given that in any given year 10-15 players get voted for, when in reality only a couple of them are actually in the MVP conversation, puts Kyrie even further away from being MVP level.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Ray is right. He was responding to Caron Butler's post. He's mad about fans trashing players for leaving, but cheering when players are sent out of town against their will.

Danny did what he thought was best, trading IT and AB.  It's not loyalty, it's business. Ray did what he thought was best, too.

Did anyone cheer when IT was traded? I saw quite the opposite.

Ray seems to have beef with fans who don't control money or personnel decisions. "Where were y'all when the team tried to trade me?" What were the fans supposed to do? Storm the castle? He can't have it both ways - he can't get into petty spats on Instagram with fans and they claim "it's a business." Either you're above it or you're not.

Yes, about half this blog seems psyched that IT was traded. we got a 25 year old MVP-level point guard that isn't 5' 9" with bad hips and nearing 30.

 FTFY

And thus, people cheered when IT was traded. No hand-wringing about "loyalty", just a cold calculated move that treated IT like a commodity.

That's a fair way to look at players. Just don't get upset when they look out for themselves. For instance, why would any player ever play through an injury here? Why would any player take less money?

I couldn't agree more. 

[nickagneta]

I never had a problem with Ray leaving the Celtics. He felt it was in his best interest to leave Boston and go join the SuperFriends to get a chip. I get that. He did what was best for him.

Well, Danny Ainge does what he feels is best for the Celtics and trading IT for Irving was best for the Celtics according to Ainge and I am good with that, too.

Ray should understand both points. Players do what's best for players and GMs do what's best for their teams. That he doesn't get that yet and made a comment about this trade just speaks to the animosity he still holds against the team for what went down with him.

[jpotter33]

Ray is right. He was responding to Caron Butler's post. He's mad about fans trashing players for leaving, but cheering when players are sent out of town against their will.

Danny did what he thought was best, trading IT and AB.  It's not loyalty, it's business. Ray did what he thought was best, too.

Did anyone cheer when IT was traded? I saw quite the opposite.

Ray seems to have beef with fans who don't control money or personnel decisions. "Where were y'all when the team tried to trade me?" What were the fans supposed to do? Storm the castle? He can't have it both ways - he can't get into petty spats on Instagram with fans and they claim "it's a business." Either you're above it or you're not.

Yes, about half this blog seems psyched that IT was traded. we got a 25 year old MVP-level point guard that isn't 5' 9" with bad hips and nearing 30.

 FTFY

Hahaha, thats about as delusional as it gets.

Did you know that in Irving’s 6 years in the NBA he has not received one vote for MVP? NOT 1. 121 different people vote for their top 5 MVPs of the season. Kyrie has not been in any of those top 5s for his entire career. A couple of guys who actually HAVE received votes during that span? Demar Derozan, IT, Joe Johnson, David Lee, Ty Lawson, Al Jefferson, Mike Conley, Goran Dragic, Kyle Lowry. Do you think those guys were MVP candidates? Because all of them have actually been closer to an MVP than Irving.

Kyrie is without a doubt, NOT an MVP candidate. Here’s hoping he significantly improves his game so one day he might get there.

I wonder why that is. Perhaps it's because in his first three years in the league he was 21 years old or younger on terrible lottery teams with hardly any talent, and in his last three years in the league he's shared the court with the best player of the current generation and another perennial All-Star type.

Besides, I said he's "MVP-level," not that he was a current MVP candidate. I fully expect him to make a jump in Boston under Stevens and in a better overall environment.

Well, you can’t have it both ways. You cant say he didn’t have enough talent on his team, and then say he has too much talent. This isn’t Goldilocks and the 3 bears. You’re not always going to have it juuuusstt right. Giannis finished in the voting last year as 21/22 year old, and the rest of his team was awful. Westbrook actually won it with a terrible supporting cast. Both KD and Curry finished in the voting, and the year before that Draymond did, and the year before that Klay did. All of them have either gotten votes or won it, and they are playing with 3/4 all stars. Wade was also able to finish in the voting multiple times playing with Lebron in Miami.

Also you would think that if Kyrie really was an “MVP level” player that he would have received at least 1 vote during his career. Given that in any given year 10-15 players get voted for, when in reality only a couple of them are actually in the MVP conversation, puts Kyrie even further away from being MVP level.

Naw, because MVP voting is more political and a popularity contest than a true competition for the most valuable player. The fact that Kyle Lowry, Demar Derozan, Joe Johnson, David Lee, Ty Lawson, Al Jefferson, Mike Conley, and Goran Dragic all received MVP votes at one time or another just proves the fact that this is a terrible indicator of an MVP-level player and is pretty much just a popularity contest.

I easily take Kyrie over every single one of them in those years they were voted. Lowry would be the only one that might be borderline.

As for IT being on that list, he actually had a legit claim for his season due to his high levels of both productivity and efficiency.

As for your other comparisons:

- Giannis' team this past year had much, much more overall talent than those pre-Lebron Kyrie Cavs teams. The second best player on those teams was Dion Waiters, which is pretty terrible.

- Westbrook, KD, and Curry are all in their primes and are overall better than Kyrie. No qualms there, but the fact that they received MVP votes and Kyrie didn't does not mean he won't be an MVP-level player this coming season.

Overall, using MVP votes received as your baseline is incredibly fallacious due to what I pointed out above. It's pretty crazy to argue that Al Jefferson and Ty Lawson were at one time considered more of an MVP-level talent than Kyrie. That's just non-sense.

A better indicator would be comparing him to a recent MVP-level player in a similar context, such as IT last year. Do you not think Kyrie can have a similarly excellent year in Boston this coming season as IT had last season? I think that's a pretty resounding "yes," and I even think he'll exceed IT's best season when defense and overall wins are considered.

[Roy H.]

IT doesn't owe Boston anything, just as Danny doesn't owe IT anything. The only things each should be concerned with is what is best for themselves (in Danny's case the Celtics).

We agree here. But, that's not the attitude that leads people to burn jerseys, make threats, label guys "Judas" and traitor, etc.