Of All The Players Ainge Could Have "Cashed Most Of His Chips" On...

[Phantom255x]

Yep, that's how I feel.

Plus, Kyrie has NOT proven he can lead a team far in the playoffs as an alpha, something Isaiah Thomas actually has proven.

This is a TREMENDOUS gamble by Ainge.

Unfortunately not sure how else they can add another star via trade since their "treasure chest" is getting emptier now (NO WAY they have enough to make an offer for Anthony Davis or Porzingis without having to cut bait with quite a few current starters/solid role players).

And sort of like how Westbrook as an alpha CAN'T lead OKC to a chip, I feel the same way about Irving. Great #2 guy in CLE but as an alpha I have my doubts.

This team is still a star away, unless Brown/Tatum can make huge leaps within the next 2 years. That's probably what Ainge is truly hoping for (along with LAL Pick conveying this year).

This is an insane remark.  In his last season as the alpha of the Cavs, he was what, 22 and on a team where his second best player was worse than our entire starting five? 

You know what IT was doing when he was 22?  Scoring less than Kyrie was against doughboy college kids on a non-factor March Madness team.  Of all the comments on this trade...

Okay okay, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to sound that harsh about Irving.

It's not that I don't think he's a great player, but I also look at it like this. Westbrook was MVP last season and is another phenomenal player. But as an alpha I think we all know you aren't winning a championship with him. I kind of feel the same way with Irving.

But to Irving's credit, he was a great #2 guy alongside Lebron and was a big part of that championship, while Westbrook and Durant never won a chip together with RW as the #2 guy.

And don't be fooled, Irving still has to prove himself a bit as an alpha. Yes, he was 22 at the time, I'll give you that. But now is the time he can hopefully elevate his game in that regard. Hopefully better coaching should help too.

Eh, I'm sorry too, I was definitely unnecessarily harsh with that reply. I've just been on the board nonstop (surprised my girl is still around) and have seen a lot of comments about the deal that IMO just don't take a lot of context into account and think I probably unloaded on you over one sentence.

I agree it was a gamble, but I think given how good GS is that his risk tolerance had to increase. He got the best player in the deal and IMO it's not close, and this guy fits our timeline better, so if the Nets pick falls outside the top 6-7 I think we win the trade handily. I also think Kyrie was the shot making alpha on Cleveland, just not the overall alpha dog, but that's another debate entirely.

It's going to be an adjustment regardless, as he had a team with Lebron and now he will LEAD a team for good (one that has no Lebron).

He's capable, but that's where Kyrie will have to prove himself a bit.

[Phantom255x]

It would be a lateral move if they have the same expected value over the next 10 years.

They do not.

I will admit that I am someone thinks that IT should have gotten a max deal for an all-in type play, but I also knew that the last year or two of the contract would have sucked.

DA mentioned timeline. What does that mean? Well, assuming IT & Kyrie are your point guards until their respective retirements, IT would project to give you what.. 3, 4 great seasons? Kyrie can give you closer to 10.

That gives Tatum and Brown a chance to overlap their primes with Kyrie and Hayward. I don't think that would have been the case with IT, unless their development is MUCH faster than predicted.

Another point that is VERY overlooked. Lots of people say that Kyrie and IT both play bad defense. The difference, in my eyes, is that Kyrie doesn't want to play defense and IT.. just *can't*. Perhaps in the right system, Kyrie (with the physical tools to defend opposing PGs), can be cultivated into a better defender.

Wow, that last part echoes exactly what Max Kellerman has said on First Take lol.

Now hopefully Brad Stevens forces him to play some defense and Kyrie is motivated to here! 

[nickagneta]

Most of his chips?

He still has these players and picks he could move for good to star level player value:

Morris
Smart
Brown
Tatum
2018 LA/2019SAC
Memphis pick
Clippers pick
All our own 1st rounders

[action781]

I guess I don't understand the "most of his chips" part. I mean, I guess technically IT and Crowder are assets, but most people weren't considering trading IT and Crowder wasn't usually listed among the "blue chip" assets like the Brooklyn picks.

Ainge gave up one BRK and we still have Brown, Tatum, the Lakers/Kings/Sixers pick. You can argue their value is higher or lower relative to the past, but we still have them. They have not been "cashed in"...yet.

This is what I was going to say.  The "chips" are generally considered to be Jaylen, BKN 17 (Tatum), BKN 18, and the newly created LAL 18 pick.  Only one of them has been cashed in.

[KG Living Legend]

I guess I don't understand the "most of his chips" part. I mean, I guess technically IT and Crowder are assets, but most people weren't considering trading IT and Crowder wasn't usually listed among the "blue chip" assets like the Brooklyn picks.

Ainge gave up one BRK and we still have Brown, Tatum, the Lakers/Kings/Sixers pick. You can argue their value is higher or lower relative to the past, but we still have them. They have not been "cashed in"...yet.

This is what I was going to say.  The "chips" are generally considered to be Jaylen, BKN 17 (Tatum), BKN 18, and the newly created LAL 18 pick.  Only one of them has been cashed in.

 TP

[Phantom255x]

Most of his chips?

He still has these players and picks he could move for good to star level player value:

Morris
Smart
Brown
Tatum
2018 LA/2019SAC
Memphis pick
Clippers pick
All our own 1st rounders

Only star I want that can be had reasonably salary-wise and trade wise is Porzingis.

Problem with AD is his salary will be tough to match w/o adding Horford. Crowder and his $7M could have helped us in that regard, and now he's gone.

[GRADYCOLNON]

We got Hayward, why would we need Butler or George?  seems kind of silly in retrospect to get mad Ainge traded for Irving because we could've gotten redundant guys.

Irving is not really a lateral move from Thomas.  Thomas really peaked last season, got injured at the end (which will likely be the end of his prime), and we saw his defense fall off a cliff.  It was clear Thomas was no longer going to be the same and not to the tune of 9 figures.

Although Irving seems like an equivalent talent at the moment, he is 3 years younger, putting up his best season last year with Lebron and Kevin Love on the same team.  It means he has another gear, the same gear we saw in the playoffs.  It means he can get better, improve not only his offense but his defense.  He has a great supporting cast that he didn't have when he was first leading the Cavs before Lebron showed up.  Brown and Smart are going to protect him like Bradley and Smart did last year for Thomas.  Hayward will should some of the offensive and creating workload to make it hard for teams to isolate Irving on an island. Horford to help orchestrate the offense and do the little things.  Morris to defend and score in a pinch. A strong bench led by Tatum and Rozier.  And not to forget our Head Coach Brad Stevens, who will work his magic.

This team finally has a limited its weaknesses to one single flaw: interior rebounding.  And as Ainge's first big three taught us, you don't need to have the best rebounding if you make a lot more of your shots.  The Celtics didn't need to wait to unload these assets because they found a guy that will solidify contending for this upcoming season and the foreseeable future.

[Phantom255x]

We got Hayward, why would we need Butler or George?  seems kind of silly in retrospect to get mad Ainge traded for Irving because we could've gotten redundant guys.

Irving is not really a lateral move from Thomas.  Thomas really peaked last season, got injured at the end (which will likely be the end of his prime), and we saw his defense fall off a cliff.  It was clear Thomas was no longer going to be the same and not to the tune of 9 figures.

Although Irving seems like an equivalent talent at the moment, he is 3 years younger, putting up his best season last year with Lebron and Kevin Love on the same team.  It means he has another gear, the same gear we saw in the playoffs.  It means he can get better, improve not only his offense but his defense.  He has a great supporting cast that he didn't have when he was first leading the Cavs before Lebron showed up.  Brown and Smart are going to protect him like Bradley and Smart did last year for Thomas.  Hayward will should some of the offensive and creating workload to make it hard for teams to isolate Irving on an island. Horford to help orchestrate the offense and do the little things.  Morris to defend and score in a pinch. A strong bench led by Tatum and Rozier.  And not to forget our Head Coach Brad Stevens, who will work his magic.

This team finally has a limited its weaknesses to one single flaw: interior rebounding.  And as Ainge's first big three taught us, you don't need to have the best rebounding if you make a lot more of your shots.  The Celtics didn't need to wait to unload these assets because they found a guy that will solidify contending for this upcoming season and the foreseeable future.

I know Bogut had a bad injury last season, but I would love to see him as our vet min signing now that Zizic is no longer here.

He would really help with that single flaw you mention: Interior Rebounding

[GRADYCOLNON]

We got Hayward, why would we need Butler or George?  seems kind of silly in retrospect to get mad Ainge traded for Irving because we could've gotten redundant guys.

Irving is not really a lateral move from Thomas.  Thomas really peaked last season, got injured at the end (which will likely be the end of his prime), and we saw his defense fall off a cliff.  It was clear Thomas was no longer going to be the same and not to the tune of 9 figures.

Although Irving seems like an equivalent talent at the moment, he is 3 years younger, putting up his best season last year with Lebron and Kevin Love on the same team.  It means he has another gear, the same gear we saw in the playoffs.  It means he can get better, improve not only his offense but his defense.  He has a great supporting cast that he didn't have when he was first leading the Cavs before Lebron showed up.  Brown and Smart are going to protect him like Bradley and Smart did last year for Thomas.  Hayward will should some of the offensive and creating workload to make it hard for teams to isolate Irving on an island. Horford to help orchestrate the offense and do the little things.  Morris to defend and score in a pinch. A strong bench led by Tatum and Rozier.  And not to forget our Head Coach Brad Stevens, who will work his magic.

This team finally has a limited its weaknesses to one single flaw: interior rebounding.  And as Ainge's first big three taught us, you don't need to have the best rebounding if you make a lot more of your shots.  The Celtics didn't need to wait to unload these assets because they found a guy that will solidify contending for this upcoming season and the foreseeable future.

I know Bogut had a bad injury last season, but I would love to see him as our vet min signing now that Zizic is no longer here.

He would really help with that single flaw you mention: Interior Rebounding

I would love him to join the Celtics if he can prove his legs aren't made of glass.  He fits too well if he is healthy

[Dino Pitino]

I guess I don't understand the "most of his chips" part. I mean, I guess technically IT and Crowder are assets, but most people weren't considering trading IT and Crowder wasn't usually listed among the "blue chip" assets like the Brooklyn picks.

Ainge gave up one BRK and we still have Brown, Tatum, the Lakers/Kings/Sixers pick. You can argue their value is higher or lower relative to the past, but we still have them. They have not been "cashed in"...yet.

This is what I was going to say.  The "chips" are generally considered to be Jaylen, BKN 17 (Tatum), BKN 18, and the newly created LAL 18 pick.  Only one of them has been cashed in.

Yep! He cashed one chip! And based on him pulling Brown off the table, holding firm on Tatum, and preferring to keep the LAL pick versus the BRK pick, Ainge thinks the one chip he cashed in was the least valuable of all four big chips.

[timpiker]

This was not at the expense of Isaiah. This was because of Isaiah. Once Ainge decide he couldn't pay him what he wanted, he knew he had a problem that was difficult to solve.

Many posters are mistaking the player Isaiah was in 2017 with Isaiah the going forward asset. One was awesome and one was a problem that had to be resolved, and soon.

Agree.  And Kyrie is great.  Just can't understand why so few understand that

[guava_wrench]

OP really undervalues Kyrie.

And any arguments against Kyrie based on playoffs are nonsense. How many years of no playoffs did IT have before making (and getting knocked out in the first round)? Kyrie has gotten it done in the finals already.

[Phantom255x]

This was not at the expense of Isaiah. This was because of Isaiah. Once Ainge decide he couldn't pay him what he wanted, he knew he had a problem that was difficult to solve.

Many posters are mistaking the player Isaiah was in 2017 with Isaiah the going forward asset. One was awesome and one was a problem that had to be resolved, and soon.

Agree.  And Kyrie is great.  Just can't understand why so few understand that

No one denies that Kyrie is great.

It's a matter of 'how great', because the price to acquire him was a king's ransom and IT had the better overall season last year than Kyrie.

And we're still a little unsure how Kyrie will be as the pure alpha of a team so obviously people will have their doubts and concerns.