Of All The Players Ainge Could Have "Cashed Most Of His Chips" On...

[kozlodoev]

Timing is everything. Ainge chose Hayward AND Irving over any one player on your list. He did well.

agree. Irving/hayward sounds way more exciting than putting another forward next to hayward

That's not what I meant. Trading for any of those guys probably meant we weren't getting Hayward.

[Ogaju]

Yeah, of all the players Ainge could have got he got the one that co-led his team to three final appearances, made the winning shot in game 7 of one of the two finals he played in, while none of the others has ever taken a team to the finals. Yeah, he got that one. Sigh?

[BostonClamCrowdah]

Yeah, of all the players Ainge could have got he got the one that co-led his team to three final appearances, made the winning shot in game 7 of one of the two finals he played in, while none of the others has ever taken a team to the finals. Yeah, he got that one. Sigh?

BUT IT PLAYED THE DAY AFTAH HE LOST HIS SISTAH

[Rondo9]

Yeah, of all the players Ainge could have got he got the one that co-led his team to three final appearances, made the winning shot in game 7 of one of the two finals he played in, while none of the others has ever taken a team to the finals. Yeah, he got that one. Sigh?

BUT IT PLAYED THE DAY AFTAH HE LOST HIS SISTAH

That's not funny.

[CelticsQuestFor18]

Yep, that's how I feel.

Plus, Kyrie has NOT proven he can lead a team far in the playoffs as an alpha, something Isaiah Thomas actually has proven.

This is a TREMENDOUS gamble by Ainge.

Unfortunately not sure how else they can add another star via trade since their "treasure chest" is getting emptier now (NO WAY they have enough to make an offer for Anthony Davis or Porzingis without having to cut bait with quite a few current starters/solid role players).

And sort of like how Westbrook as an alpha CAN'T lead OKC to a chip, I feel the same way about Irving. Great #2 guy in CLE but as an alpha I have my doubts.

This team is still a star away, unless Brown/Tatum can make huge leaps within the next 2 years. That's probably what Ainge is truly hoping for (along with LAL Pick conveying this year).

This is an insane remark.  In his last season as the alpha of the Cavs, he was what, 22 and on a team where his second best player was worse than our entire starting five? 

You know what IT was doing when he was 22?  Scoring less than Kyrie was against doughboy college kids on a non-factor March Madness team.  Of all the comments on this trade...

Okay okay, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to sound that harsh about Irving.

It's not that I don't think he's a great player, but I also look at it like this. Westbrook was MVP last season and is another phenomenal player. But as an alpha I think we all know you aren't winning a championship with him. I kind of feel the same way with Irving.

But to Irving's credit, he was a great #2 guy alongside Lebron and was a big part of that championship, while Westbrook and Durant never won a chip together with RW as the #2 guy.

And don't be fooled, Irving still has to prove himself a bit as an alpha. Yes, he was 22 at the time, I'll give you that. But now is the time he can hopefully elevate his game in that regard. Hopefully better coaching should help too.

[Phantom255x]

Yeah, of all the players Ainge could have got he got the one that co-led his team to three final appearances, made the winning shot in game 7 of one of the two finals he played in, while none of the others has ever taken a team to the finals. Yeah, he got that one. Sigh?

Coming into this summer, we had two HUGE NEEDS: #2 scorer and rebounding.

We got Hayward to solve scoring, yes.

But to be honest rebounding still feels like a hole.

And the Celtics made a trade to upgrade (marginally) at a position that ALREADY was going to be a strength next season with IT4, and gave up MORE in the process (Nets Pick, Crowder, Zizic).

[smokeablount]

Yep, that's how I feel.

Plus, Kyrie has NOT proven he can lead a team far in the playoffs as an alpha, something Isaiah Thomas actually has proven.

This is a TREMENDOUS gamble by Ainge.

Unfortunately not sure how else they can add another star via trade since their "treasure chest" is getting emptier now (NO WAY they have enough to make an offer for Anthony Davis or Porzingis without having to cut bait with quite a few current starters/solid role players).

And sort of like how Westbrook as an alpha CAN'T lead OKC to a chip, I feel the same way about Irving. Great #2 guy in CLE but as an alpha I have my doubts.

This team is still a star away, unless Brown/Tatum can make huge leaps within the next 2 years. That's probably what Ainge is truly hoping for (along with LAL Pick conveying this year).

This is an insane remark.  In his last season as the alpha of the Cavs, he was what, 22 and on a team where his second best player was worse than our entire starting five? 

You know what IT was doing when he was 22?  Scoring less than Kyrie was against doughboy college kids on a non-factor March Madness team.  Of all the comments on this trade...

Okay okay, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to sound that harsh about Irving.

It's not that I don't think he's a great player, but I also look at it like this. Westbrook was MVP last season and is another phenomenal player. But as an alpha I think we all know you aren't winning a championship with him. I kind of feel the same way with Irving.

But to Irving's credit, he was a great #2 guy alongside Lebron and was a big part of that championship, while Westbrook and Durant never won a chip together with RW as the #2 guy.

And don't be fooled, Irving still has to prove himself a bit as an alpha. Yes, he was 22 at the time, I'll give you that. But now is the time he can hopefully elevate his game in that regard. Hopefully better coaching should help too.

Eh, I'm sorry too, I was definitely unnecessarily harsh with that reply. I've just been on the board nonstop (surprised my girl is still around) and have seen a lot of comments about the deal that IMO just don't take a lot of context into account and think I probably unloaded on you over one sentence.

I agree it was a gamble, but I think given how good GS is that his risk tolerance had to increase. He got the best player in the deal and IMO it's not close, and this guy fits our timeline better, so if the Nets pick falls outside the top 6-7 I think we win the trade handily. I also think Kyrie was the shot making alpha on Cleveland, just not the overall alpha dog, but that's another debate entirely.

[CelticsElite]

Yeah, of all the players Ainge could have got he got the one that co-led his team to three final appearances, made the winning shot in game 7 of one of the two finals he played in, while none of the others has ever taken a team to the finals. Yeah, he got that one. Sigh?

exactly. Jimmy butler had loaded teams and never even got to the ECF or past it. He has never hit a buzzer beater outside of a gatorade commercial and isn't clutch at all.
Plus kyrie is younger than the list they gave

[CelticsElite]

Yeah, of all the players Ainge could have got he got the one that co-led his team to three final appearances, made the winning shot in game 7 of one of the two finals he played in, while none of the others has ever taken a team to the finals. Yeah, he got that one. Sigh?

Coming into this summer, we had two HUGE NEEDS: #2 scorer and rebounding.

We got Hayward to solve scoring, yes.

But to be honest rebounding still feels like a hole.

And the Celtics made a trade to upgrade (marginally) at a position that ALREADY was going to be a strength next season with IT4, and gave up MORE in the process (Nets Pick, Crowder, Zizic).

scoring isn't solved by getting 1 guy. We need at least 3 reliable scorers.. That was the point of the original big 3. We probably have it with kyrie/ hayward and one of horford/tatum should show up per game

[gift]

I guess I don't understand the "most of his chips" part. I mean, I guess technically IT and Crowder are assets, but most people weren't considering trading IT and Crowder wasn't usually listed among the "blue chip" assets like the Brooklyn picks.

Ainge gave up one BRK and we still have Brown, Tatum, the Lakers/Kings/Sixers pick. You can argue their value is higher or lower relative to the past, but we still have them. They have not been "cashed in"...yet.

[Jon]

I mean Kyrie is definitely above Butler on the list. And as much as I like Cousins all signs point to toxicity with his teammates so you could equally put him below Kyrie too. George is probably below him as well and is certainly more of a flight risk. I wouldn't have given up Isaiah for any of those guys.

I just put Cousins name there to emphasize that there were other stars available, but yeah it seems he is a cancer and Ainge and CBS didn't want him (and apparently neither did many NBA teams, which is why the Pelicans got him for relatively cheap).

And Butler okay, but George? Idk I'd put a healthy George above Kyrie. George can legitimately lead a team far and is a Top-5 2-WAY player (also plays elite defense).

But you essentially just answered your own question: Cousins is nearly universally known as a cancer, nearly everyone would consider Butler a tier below Irving, and while case could be made that George is better than Irving, there was a much higher chance that he would leave after this season than Kyrie who has been rumored to like Boston.

 I am still having some residual sticker shock from the price, but I don't think Danny had any other options of equal caliber to play for. I also think that holding all these assets as long as he did had finally come to a head where we are 1) in a position to win now, 2) were in a position where we couldn't/didn't want to sign guys like Bradley and IT, and 3) didn't want to waste good years of Hayward and Horford hoping we get a stud in 2018 that might be ready by 2020 or 2021.

[ETNCeltics]

I hate the trade because of giving up the BRK pick, but let's be honest. Many of the comments about the playoffs here are ridiculous. IT led us to 2 series wins over middling teams. Even with a 100% healthy IT CLE would have crushed us. It's not like IT played at a level in those 2 series that Kyrie never has. If we limited it to "leading a team", then consider the garbage team he had before Lebron. Similarly, I think most of us here would almost kill to get AD, yet he's been to the playoffs once and did nothing. Are you trying to say AD isn't on IT's level? No, you know you can't honestly say that.

OTOH, Kyrie has played solid - though not well enough against the juggernaut - in back to back championship series against GSW. His game 6 last year is one of the great playoff performances of all time by a guard. He didn't play great in every game, but he was clutch, and put up big #s. He's a much better player than some of you are giving him credit for.

[BostonClamCrowdah]

I guess I don't understand the "most of his chips" part. I mean, I guess technically IT and Crowder are assets, but most people weren't considering trading IT and Crowder wasn't usually listed among the "blue chip" assets like the Brooklyn picks.

Ainge gave up one BRK and we still have Brown, Tatum, the Lakers/Kings/Sixers pick. You can argue their value is higher or lower relative to the past, but we still have them. They have not been "cashed in"...yet.

Exactly

Ainge basically turned the 17 Brooklyn pick into Tatum, Irving, and another top 8 pick lol

That's insane.

[Boris Badenov]

I guess I don't understand the "most of his chips" part. I mean, I guess technically IT and Crowder are assets, but most people weren't considering trading IT and Crowder wasn't usually listed among the "blue chip" assets like the Brooklyn picks.

Ainge gave up one BRK and we still have Brown, Tatum, the Lakers/Kings/Sixers pick. You can argue their value is higher or lower relative to the past, but we still have them. They have not been "cashed in"...yet.

Exactly

Ainge basically turned the 17 Brooklyn pick into Tatum, Irving, and another top 8 pick lol

That's insane.

I think you mean 17 BKN pick into Tatum and another picks, and separately the 18 BKN pick and other players for Irving.

There's no reason to connect the two trades. One could be great after the fact and the other terrible.

[Smartacus]

It would be a lateral move if they have the same expected value over the next 10 years.

They do not.

I will admit that I am someone thinks that IT should have gotten a max deal for an all-in type play, but I also knew that the last year or two of the contract would have sucked.

DA mentioned timeline. What does that mean? Well, assuming IT & Kyrie are your point guards until their respective retirements, IT would project to give you what.. 3, 4 great seasons? Kyrie can give you closer to 10.

That gives Tatum and Brown a chance to overlap their primes with Kyrie and Hayward. I don't think that would have been the case with IT, unless their development is MUCH faster than predicted.

Another point that is VERY overlooked. Lots of people say that Kyrie and IT both play bad defense. The difference, in my eyes, is that Kyrie doesn't want to play defense and IT.. just *can't*. Perhaps in the right system, Kyrie (with the physical tools to defend opposing PGs), can be cultivated into a better defender.

Solid post Erik, TP.

On Bill Simmons Kyrie podcast, that twit Chris Ryan actually had a fairly compelling point that Danny Ainge is working in two timelines. Overlapping the primes of our best players is another great way to look at it. By trading for Kyrie Danny effectively linked the future with the present.

The focal point of our offense is young enough to relate to the rookies and old enough to form a cohesive unit with Hayward and Horford. He doesn't have to be the veteran leader like Isaiah was trying to be, we have Horford and Hayward for that. Instead Kyrie can just go off. His role will be to carry the team for stretches, stop opposing runs, and in general be the guy that puts us far over the top. Meanwhile everyone else will fill in around him with spacing, defense, rebounding etc. It's basically the same as how Golden State was designed around Curry.  Exciting times.