Of All The Players Ainge Could Have "Cashed Most Of His Chips" On...

[Phantom255x]

He chose Kyrie Irving... 

I'm sorry but to me that's just underwhelming, especially when you consider it's more of a LATERAL move as opposed to improving and becoming a legitimate Finals contender - a team that you can look at and say with confidence, "they can beat CLE and make the Finals" (since you kind of traded away our alpha in IT in order to make this trade, and now CLE has him too).

Paul George. DeMarcus Cousins. Jimmy Butler. And MANY other names of stars and even superstars we could have targeted and added to this team along with IT4, Hayward, Horford, etc. (even if it meant slightly overpaying).

While I agree PG13 was always risky being a rental, I may have been willing to give up LAL Pick in a trade if THAT was the centerpiece (not Brown and Tatum and IT), and then a core of IT/Horford/Hayward/PG13 + most of this bench could go to work.

I understand that at some point, Ainge was going to have to overpay in a trade in order to acquire a star. I'm just upset that of all the stars available in the past 2 years, he chose Irving, who is ALSO bad at defense, and at the expense of Isaiah, so we're not really improving a ton here either.

Am I wrong in thinking this? I'm sure others here feel similarly, and I've seen some mention it in other posts/threads here too.

[TheSundanceKid]

I mean Kyrie is definitely above Butler on the list. And as much as I like Cousins all signs point to toxicity with his teammates so you could equally put him below Kyrie too. George is probably below him as well and is certainly more of a flight risk. I wouldn't have given up Isaiah for any of those guys.

[Erik]

It would be a lateral move if they have the same expected value over the next 10 years.

They do not.

I will admit that I am someone thinks that IT should have gotten a max deal for an all-in type play, but I also knew that the last year or two of the contract would have sucked.

DA mentioned timeline. What does that mean? Well, assuming IT & Kyrie are your point guards until their respective retirements, IT would project to give you what.. 3, 4 great seasons? Kyrie can give you closer to 10.

That gives Tatum and Brown a chance to overlap their primes with Kyrie and Hayward. I don't think that would have been the case with IT, unless their development is MUCH faster than predicted.

Another point that is VERY overlooked. Lots of people say that Kyrie and IT both play bad defense. The difference, in my eyes, is that Kyrie doesn't want to play defense and IT.. just *can't*. Perhaps in the right system, Kyrie (with the physical tools to defend opposing PGs), can be cultivated into a better defender.

[CelticsQuestFor18]

Yep, that's how I feel.

Plus, Kyrie has NOT proven he can lead a team far in the playoffs as an alpha, something Isaiah Thomas actually has proven.

This is a TREMENDOUS gamble by Ainge.

Unfortunately not sure how else they can add another star via trade since their "treasure chest" is getting emptier now (NO WAY they have enough to make an offer for Anthony Davis or Porzingis without having to cut bait with quite a few current starters/solid role players).

And sort of like how Westbrook as an alpha CAN'T lead OKC to a chip, I feel the same way about Irving. Great #2 guy in CLE but as an alpha I have my doubts.

This team is still a star away, unless Brown/Tatum can make huge leaps within the next 2 years. That's probably what Ainge is truly hoping for (along with LAL Pick conveying this year). 

[Phantom255x]

I mean Kyrie is definitely above Butler on the list. And as much as I like Cousins all signs point to toxicity with his teammates so you could equally put him below Kyrie too. George is probably below him as well and is certainly more of a flight risk. I wouldn't have given up Isaiah for any of those guys.

I just put Cousins name there to emphasize that there were other stars available, but yeah it seems he is a cancer and Ainge and CBS didn't want him (and apparently neither did many NBA teams, which is why the Pelicans got him for relatively cheap).

And Butler okay, but George? Idk I'd put a healthy George above Kyrie. George can legitimately lead a team far and is a Top-5 2-WAY player (also plays elite defense).

[BostonClamCrowdah]

Yep, that's how I feel.

Plus, Kyrie has NOT proven he can lead a team far in the playoffs as an alpha, something Isaiah Thomas actually has proven.

Interesting commen considering Kyrie has played in 3 straight finals and took the biggest shots for his team.

IT has made it out of the first round ONCE

So really, you couldn't have been more wrong if you tried.

[CelticsElite]

The other superstars aren't available. Not only was kyrie available, he wanted to come here over 28 other teams

Kyrie has accomplished more than anyone in your preferred list

[kozlodoev]

Timing is everything. Ainge chose Hayward AND Irving over any one player on your list. He did well.

[incoherent]

Here's a bottom line for you Phantom:

Kyrie is undoubtedly a better performer in the playoffs and has more playoff experience.  There is no debate on this topic.

That's all that matters to us at this point.

We upgraded.

[RJ87]

Just gonna paste my answer from another thread:


From all accounts, Boogie was never an option because of his character concerns - and that seemed to be true for a lot of teams outside of the Celtics.

Could we have gotten Paul George? The further removed from that deal we get, the more I'm convinced Indy just didn't want to trade him within the Eastern Conference. They got a crappy deal in the end and walked away from a significantly better deal from Cleveland/Denver. And I genuinely think Ainge would've pulled the trigger after Hayward committed but it takes two to tango.

I don't know why we don't go harder after Jimmy Butler, I'm 100% with you there.

[smokeablount]

Yep, that's how I feel.

Plus, Kyrie has NOT proven he can lead a team far in the playoffs as an alpha, something Isaiah Thomas actually has proven.

This is a TREMENDOUS gamble by Ainge.

Unfortunately not sure how else they can add another star via trade since their "treasure chest" is getting emptier now (NO WAY they have enough to make an offer for Anthony Davis or Porzingis without having to cut bait with quite a few current starters/solid role players).

And sort of like how Westbrook as an alpha CAN'T lead OKC to a chip, I feel the same way about Irving. Great #2 guy in CLE but as an alpha I have my doubts.

This team is still a star away, unless Brown/Tatum can make huge leaps within the next 2 years. That's probably what Ainge is truly hoping for (along with LAL Pick conveying this year).

This is an insane remark.  In his last season as the alpha of the Cavs, he was what, 22 and on a team where his second best player was worse than our entire starting five? 

You know what IT was doing when he was 22?  Scoring less than Kyrie was against doughboy college kids on a non-factor March Madness team.  Of all the comments on this trade...

[CelticsElite]

Timing is everything. Ainge chose Hayward AND Irving over any one player on your list. He did well.

agree. Irving/hayward sounds way more exciting than putting another forward next to hayward

[PaulAllen]

top 8-10 player who is 25 years old...

[td450]

This was not at the expense of Isaiah. This was because of Isaiah. Once Ainge decide he couldn't pay him what he wanted, he knew he had a problem that was difficult to solve.

Many posters are mistaking the player Isaiah was in 2017 with Isaiah the going forward asset. One was awesome and one was a problem that had to be resolved, and soon.

[Rosco917]

It bothers me that all this IT vs. Irving talk is forcing me to dis a guy I liked, rooted for and respected.

The truth is, in a few years were all gonna love this trade. The young C's can now all grow-up at the same time now. We can add specialized veteran pieces, while waiting for LBJ to age, and Golden State to fall apart. In 2 or 3 years Irving will still be in his prime. He'll hopefully be a better player too. Not to mention Brown, Tatum, Smart, and Rosier.

In 2 or 3  years IT will be coming off surgery, he'll be 31, who knows maybe we can get him back as a 6th. man.