Looks like we have a split board on this trade~

[Rakulp]

What's the best case scenario for us?  If IT's hip takes longer to heal (not wishing illness on anybody, but forcing them to use Rose at the start of the year perhaps), if Crowder and Zizic don't provide much in the way of useful minutes on the floor, and the Nets suddenly develop Playoff fever.

What's the worst case scenario for us?  IT is still IT, Crowder is challenged and returns to his form from two years ago, Zizic has a monster year, and the Nets lose a couple of their better players to injuries early in the year, and get so discouraged they mail it in the rest of the year.  Cleveland wins the East, and shock the Warriors.  Lebron reconsiders, decides to stay in Cleveland...and they have the #1 pick in the next draft.  It would kill me to hear "With the first pick in the 2018 draft, the Cleveland Cavaliers select...."

Now, what's the LIKELY scenario?  Boston has a ton of talent, but they are all new to Coach Stevens.  The jigsaw puzzle he worked with last year is almost all gone, he has a new picture to make, and has to figure out how to put the pieces together to create that picture.  Expectations will be high based on last year's results, and the desire of the pro-IT side to see immediate results with Irving leading the team.

IT will bring it as much as he can.  This is the year where he has to show he is worth the near max money, whether Cleveland wants to back up the Brinks truck or another team.  He has the added incentive of wanting to beat Boston to prove they made the wrong trade for the wrong reason.

The Nets should be a better team this year than last...how much better remains to be seen.  That's why we play the games.

Bottom line...we have all wanted fireworks for years, and nobody can say that this offseason hasn't been filled with them.  While we all loved what we saw last year with that team, this team will obviously be much different.  I'll miss IT and Crowder, and cringed when I heard the Nets pick was included...but I'm stoked to see what Coach Stevens can do with this collection of players over time.

Rak

[CoachBo]

I've largely tried to stay out of all the predictable emotionalism surrounding this trade, and I favored maxing out IT at one time.

However, there are a couple of key factors by which I judge this trade today:

1. Who got the best player? That one is clear to me - Boston. Irving is effective offensively from the low box to the 3 line, and he has never had a real coach. Lue is nothing more than a placeholder for Coach James. I see no reason not to believe that Stevens can't introduce Irving to the Celtic system, which includes defending, rebounding and passing - all reasonable expectations for the more physical and younger of the two keys in this trade and all areas where Irving can reasonably be expected to develop. Can you say the same about IT?

2. There is significant evidence to believe that Ainge sold high on Thomas. Here's a list of all the NBA guards under 6 feet who've played in an all-star game at age 30 or later.


That's right. There are none. The hip injury is evidence of the accumulated wear and tear, and it can certainly be argued that Thomas may right now be at a peak in his career.

3. Crowder is a nice complementary piece. If the unrequited love for Ainge the drafter on this board is accurate, he will be more than replaced by Brown and Tatum.

4. Zizic. Ugh. Who cares? The Croatian Crawler playing significant minutes in Boston, after a truly woeful performance in the summer, makes me chuckle. High probability Ainge missed on this guy.

5. The Nets pick. I had the opportunity yesterday to listen to Mike Fratello opine that the Nets will make the playoffs. Interesting.

6. And finally, are the Celtics better today than they were on Tuesday morning? I believe the answer is clearly yes.

So welcome to the rarest of moments: Me defending a controversial Danny Ainge move. I like the trade, I certainly would have made it and I would be lambasting Ainge had he turned tail and run from this one.

[KGBirdBias]

Great analysis. I'm interested to see how Stevens gets these guys to play together. The main thing will be rebounding and assists. We need to see the ball moving and not sticking to Hayward, Irving or Tatum.

[SHAQATTACK]

I've largely tried to stay out of all the predictable emotionalism surrounding this trade, and I favored maxing out IT at one time.

However, there are a couple of key factors by which I judge this trade today:

1. Who got the best player? That one is clear to me - Boston. Irving is effective offensively from the low box to the 3 line, and he has never had a real coach. Lue is nothing more than a placeholder for Coach James. I see no reason not to believe that Stevens can't introduce Irving to the Celtic system, which includes defending, rebounding and passing - all reasonable expectations for the more physical and younger of the two keys in this trade and all areas where Irving can reasonably be expected to develop. Can you say the same about IT?

2. There is significant evidence to believe that Ainge sold high on Thomas. Here's a list of all the NBA guards under 6 feet who've played in an all-star game at age 30 or later.


That's right. There are none. The hip injury is evidence of the accumulated wear and tear, and it can certainly be argued that Thomas may right now be at a peak in his career.

3. Crowder is a nice complementary piece. If the unrequited love for Ainge the drafter on this board is accurate, he will be more than replaced by Brown and Tatum.

4. Zizic. Ugh. Who cares? The Croatian Crawler playing significant minutes in Boston, after a truly woeful performance in the summer, makes me chuckle. High probability Ainge missed on this guy.

5. The Nets pick. I had the opportunity yesterday to listen to Mike Fratello opine that the Nets will make the playoffs. Interesting.

6. And finally, are the Celtics better today than they were on Tuesday morning? I believe the answer is clearly yes.

So welcome to the rarest of moments: Me defending a controversial Danny Ainge move. I like the trade, I certainly would have made it and I would be lambasting Ainge had he turned tail and run from this one.

well done ! 

i kinda think Irving wants to try out a traditional basketball system, where you rise to the top based on your play .....not what role Lebron expects ,   Lebron is not his father and should not be his coach or GM .....but Lebron forces his will anyway .  Irving is old enough not to put up with Lebrons mess. Who wants a teamate who  is playing YOUR postion of handling the ball , calling plays, ragging on you ,  and maling behind the back trade decisios . Lebron operates an totally unequal system .  I totally  get him wanting to leave, or being stuck with Lebron running off after the season.   Another season with ...no real coach .....listenng to Lebron whine , lay down and give up like he did in the Spurs route ,  Lebron acted beat going into the Warriors matchup.  Lebron is , as always mentally weak.

[tstorey_97]

Point one--

In the NBA, Irving is the "bigger star." I agree, that in Boston, Thomas is a bigger star but, that isn't what we're talking about in this value judgement.

In the 2019/20 season or whenever, the call to a max player will be...

"Come to Boston and play with Kyrie and Hayward and..."

Point two--

Ainge saw the opportunity to use his assets to acquire (in Ainge's opinion) a "transcendent player" in a somewhat distressed situation. Yesterday is why he had assembled one of the most significant first round draft pick cache's we have ever seen, to get a player of this caliber. In this year's draft Ainge entered with the top pick. He came out with Tatum and a top pick.

I suggest that this signaled Ainge was closing on "win now." Garnett, obviously, was "win now". Hayward/Irving is "one piece" from final's contention. He no longer saw the need to conserve assets and "develop 19/20 year olds."

At the end of his presser yesterday, he stated, "...the summer isn't over yet." Our very own Boston based Mormon is making his play now. 

Point three--

Danny Ainge loves Kyrie Irving's game. Since the Irving trade request, Ainge has been signing bench players....six of them (?) and talking with Cav's hoping no one else would get him. In comparison to Butler etc. Cav's got solid value for Irving. Ainge evidenced his estimation of Kyrie's ability by the package he offered.

This trade was not about what Ainge gave up for Kyrie Irving, it was about getting him.

[fairweatherfan]

Still a lot of uncertains from this trade to consider which I think is playing a big role in this trade.  Namely, the two biggest (IMO) being;

1)  The BKN pick  (why was it unprotected and will it come back to haunt us?)

2)  Will Kyrie leave after two years?

Until one or both of those are settled, there is gonna be a lot of uncertainty or thought that Danny overpaid and CLE robbed us in many posters' eyes.

Don't forget 3) how much IT's hip winds up affecting him this season, which was all we were assured of having him for. If he's limited or on and off the injury list all year it changes the calculus quite a bit.

[PhoSita]

Where I land on the Kyrie trade --

If the Celts are gonna lose to LeBron in the ECF, or get murdered by the Warriors in the Finals, I'd rather watch them do it with Isaiah.

Maybe this trade allows them to make the Finals and lose to the Warriors instead.  Or maybe after LeBron moves on, Giannis or somebody else rises, and the Celts remain a 2nd or 3rd place team for a while.

Basically, if the ceiling for the team is gonna be hanging around the top of the East with a small  chance of making the Finals, I'd rather watch a team led by Isaiah Thomas.



What will make or break this trade for me is if Kyrie can become something more than he has been.  If he takes another step forward and becomes a clear cut top 10 player, then the trade makes a lot of sense.

On other hand, if he just continues to be a similar player to Isaiah but a bit younger, and all the Celts get out of it is more cost control and a theoretically higher defensive ceiling in the playoffs, but they never make the Finals .... I will feel that Ainge killed the continuity of a likable team of guys who "made it" together, for .... nothing.  Well, not nothing.  Marginal value.  Just another step in the process of systematically upgrading assets and extending the window of the current core another couple years.

That would be tough to feel good about, even if it makes perfect sense.



The Celts have a higher theoretical ceiling now.  But it's going to take a while for me to come to appreciate the team, especially the guy leading it, in the way I did the last few years.



I mean, if you're not competing for championships, wouldn't you rather watch a team with a consistent cast of guys you like and enjoy?  Sports fandom has to be about more than cold calculating moves of pieces on a chess board.  We spend night after night with these guys during the long regular season. 

If we know going in that they're likely to be behind the Warriors and whatever team LeBron plays for, doesn't it make a difference whether we're emotionally invested in the guys who play the most minutes and take the most shots?


If no championship is coming either way, I'd rather get to watch a full decade or more of Isaiah in a Celtics jersey, as the team changes and grows and develops around him.

But, maybe Isaiah will age as poorly as some people fear.  If that fear ends up being justified, and Kyrie stays healthy while playing at an All-Star level for the next 5-6 years, the trade will be justified, too.


Very much a head vs heart thing for me.  This trade challenges my notions of what matters to me as a fan.

[cltc5]

Kyrie makes us better.  We get a guy that can do all the things IT did without having to be the bulk of the offense.  How do you develop a team when one guy demands to be the show?  How do you help mature tatum and brown when they are on the bench or watching IT take over.  What's Hayward do when IT decides he wants to drive the lane and fumble away the ball bwcause he has to prove he's legit? 

IT-  a small pg that hasn't shown up much in the playoffs, coming off a hip injury, who plays with wreckless abandon, approaching 30, and commands the ball.  Is gonna stifle young talent development like rozier/smart.No thanks

Crowder-good contract for a player that has declined in productivity since his injury.  Is gonna stifle young talent like Tatum and brown.

Zizic-played lights out and Europe and slept  his way through summer league.  He was picked late in the 1st round.  He's a dime a dozen in a league where his position is phasing out.

The Brooklyn pick-  might be high, might be low.  Might get a good player-might not-crapshoot-who cares.  We have young developing talent at all positions with assets to trade or move up if necessary.

We have a great young core and we've improved as a team.  Which really is what matters

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

the fact that you have to convince people on this board that this was a good move for this team is proof they're all homers here.

really guys just getting rid of crowder and IT is an improvement.

most posters here would be terrible businessmen. they decide on emotion and not perspsective, rationality or objectivity. Or they create strawmen arguments to support their confirmation bias.

You are correct. Jae is finally gone. good riddance. I will miss IT but it is for the best. He won't hold up and DA was not paying him with all the risks involved. I had said for ages DA has a glut of picks. he used two in a row on brown and tatum. Eventually he WILL trade some for a proven player. Well he did it. I am fine with it. he made us better. Did he overpay? maybe so but there is no guarantee with any pick and did we really want to use every pick on draftees instead of a trade? no! 

[liam]

Anyone know when the trade will be finalized, i.e. physicals etc...? The only thing stranger than making this trade with a conference rival is having it resended and the players have to go back to the teams that traded them.

[wdleehi]

I am still split on the trade.


Celtics got the best player and younger.



Celtics gave up an all-star and possible top 5 pick.


If there was some sort of protection on the pick, I would probably feel less bad.   

[CoachBo]

Where I land on the Kyrie trade --

If the Celts are gonna lose to LeBron in the ECF, or get murdered by the Warriors in the Finals, I'd rather watch them do it with Isaiah.

Maybe this trade allows them to make the Finals and lose to the Warriors instead.  Or maybe after LeBron moves on, Giannis or somebody else rises, and the Celts remain a 2nd or 3rd place team for a while.

Basically, if the ceiling for the team is gonna be hanging around the top of the East with a small  chance of making the Finals, I'd rather watch a team led by Isaiah Thomas.



What will make or break this trade for me is if Kyrie can become something more than he has been.  If he takes another step forward and becomes a clear cut top 10 player, then the trade makes a lot of sense.

On other hand, if he just continues to be a similar player to Isaiah but a bit younger, and all the Celts get out of it is more cost control and a theoretically higher defensive ceiling in the playoffs, but they never make the Finals .... I will feel that Ainge killed the continuity of a likable team of guys who "made it" together, for .... nothing.  Well, not nothing.  Marginal value.  Just another step in the process of systematically upgrading assets and extending the window of the current core another couple years.

That would be tough to feel good about, even if it makes perfect sense.



The Celts have a higher theoretical ceiling now.  But it's going to take a while for me to come to appreciate the team, especially the guy leading it, in the way I did the last few years.



I mean, if you're not competing for championships, wouldn't you rather watch a team with a consistent cast of guys you like and enjoy?  Sports fandom has to be about more than cold calculating moves of pieces on a chess board.  We spend night after night with these guys during the long regular season. 

If we know going in that they're likely to be behind the Warriors and whatever team LeBron plays for, doesn't it make a difference whether we're emotionally invested in the guys who play the most minutes and take the most shots?


If no championship is coming either way, I'd rather get to watch a full decade or more of Isaiah in a Celtics jersey, as the team changes and grows and develops around him.

But, maybe Isaiah will age as poorly as some people fear.  If that fear ends up being justified, and Kyrie stays healthy while playing at an All-Star level for the next 5-6 years, the trade will be justified, too.


Very much a head vs heart thing for me.  This trade challenges my notions of what matters to me as a fan.

The uniform and winning matter to me.

And players wearing said uniform who make us better.

I don't get attached to individual players.

[Fafnir]

I think the trade ends up getting evaluating primarily based on where that BKN ends up.

[Fafnir]

Anyone know when the trade will be finalized, i.e. physicals etc...? The only thing stranger than making this trade with a conference rival is having it resended and the players have to go back to the teams that traded them.

Physicals still need to happen, and roughly a week is allowed for it.

But medical information has already been shared, and unless IT is hip is about to fall off the deal will go through. They want that pick in case LBJ leaves.

[Emmette Bryant]

I've largely tried to stay out of all the predictable emotionalism surrounding this trade, and I favored maxing out IT at one time.

However, there are a couple of key factors by which I judge this trade today:

1. Who got the best player? That one is clear to me - Boston. Irving is effective offensively from the low box to the 3 line, and he has never had a real coach. Lue is nothing more than a placeholder for Coach James. I see no reason not to believe that Stevens can't introduce Irving to the Celtic system, which includes defending, rebounding and passing - all reasonable expectations for the more physical and younger of the two keys in this trade and all areas where Irving can reasonably be expected to develop. Can you say the same about IT?

2. There is significant evidence to believe that Ainge sold high on Thomas. Here's a list of all the NBA guards under 6 feet who've played in an all-star game at age 30 or later.


That's right. There are none. The hip injury is evidence of the accumulated wear and tear, and it can certainly be argued that Thomas may right now be at a peak in his career.

3. Crowder is a nice complementary piece. If the unrequited love for Ainge the drafter on this board is accurate, he will be more than replaced by Brown and Tatum.

4. Zizic. Ugh. Who cares? The Croatian Crawler playing significant minutes in Boston, after a truly woeful performance in the summer, makes me chuckle. High probability Ainge missed on this guy.

5. The Nets pick. I had the opportunity yesterday to listen to Mike Fratello opine that the Nets will make the playoffs. Interesting.

6. And finally, are the Celtics better today than they were on Tuesday morning? I believe the answer is clearly yes.

So welcome to the rarest of moments: Me defending a controversial Danny Ainge move. I like the trade, I certainly would have made it and I would be lambasting Ainge had he turned tail and run from this one.

Who are you and what have you done with Coach Bo? TP for your sunny optimism.