Ainge: We're not comfortable yet. Still searching for things that make us better

[CelticsElite]

Bulpett says ainge probably isn't done dealing
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2017/07/bulpett_danny_ainge_probably_not_done_wheeling_and_dealing

[liam]

Joffrey Lauvergne is available. He could be a role playing big for The Celtics. 33.7% from 3. I noticed him when  we played The Bulls.

[obnoxiousmime]

“But so do I think, Jaylen (Brown) and Jayson Tatum. I think both of those guys are outstanding rebounders. You know, everyone just assumes rebounding is you go get a center who can rebound and then all your problems are solved. That certainly can help, but a lot of times that creates problems on the other end, unless that guy is really, really skilled. Then you have Shaquille O’Neal or Wilt Chamberlain.

This is what I see on this board all the time. People want us to get some horrible center just because he can rebound, but they don't think about all the other negatives a one-dimensional big man brings to the table. We do need rebounding help, but if he's a drag in other areas, it may not be worth it. 

If you do want a big who has other skills, they tend to be really expensive and may even be a star-level guy. That, in essence, is what Ainge is saying. He's not going to go for the middle-class overpaid guy. We'll probably sign someone who is decent enough, to low money.

We're not going to trade for/sign guys like Len, Valanciunas, Vucevic, Monroe, Drummond, Jordan, so forget it. All those guys are stuck in the post, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just not an ability worth what they are paid (though Vucevic's deal is actually allright at $12/year).

As long as teams are still overpaying centers that aren't multi-skilled, they will continue to be bad investments in today's NBA and that's exactly what the Celtics want to avoid.

[LGC88]

“But so do I think, Jaylen (Brown) and Jayson Tatum. I think both of those guys are outstanding rebounders. You know, everyone just assumes rebounding is you go get a center who can rebound and then all your problems are solved. That certainly can help, but a lot of times that creates problems on the other end, unless that guy is really, really skilled. Then you have Shaquille O’Neal or Wilt Chamberlain.

This is what I see on this board all the time. People want us to get some horrible center just because he can rebound, but they don't think about all the other negatives a one-dimensional big man brings to the table. We do need rebounding help, but if he's a drag in other areas, it may not be worth it. 

If you do want a big who has other skills, they tend to be really expensive and may even be a star-level guy. That, in essence, is what Ainge is saying. He's not going to go for the middle-class overpaid guy. We'll probably sign someone who is decent enough, to low money.

We're not going to trade for/sign guys like Len, Valanciunas, Vucevic, Monroe, Drummond, Jordan, so forget it. All those guys are stuck in the post, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just not an ability worth what they are paid (though Vucevic's deal is actually allright at $12/year).

As long as teams are still overpaying centers that aren't multi-skilled, they will continue to be bad investments in today's NBA and that's exactly what the Celtics want to avoid.

Exactly, but people are stubborn or think it's a trend, lol.
Anyway, they will all get it one day.

Think about why Detroit has been shopping Drummond for a year?
Think about why Clippers tried to shop Jordan (they are not tanking)
Why Atlanta traded Superman? (they just sign him big money)
Why Milwaukee tried to trade Monroe and he's a bench player now.

That should be more than coincidence for you to reconsider the way you see the center position.

Rebounding is a strange animal nowadays. You look at Chicago that was the best (or one of the best) rebounding regular season team, despite having no top rebounder.
You rebound as a team, length and athleticism grab rebounds.
Finish the 90s when you could win a game by out-rebounding your opponent lol

[saltlover]

While I generally agree with Ainge, I hope he at least views a rebounding, shot-altering big as a role on a team.  Not one you need out there all 48 minutes, but one who can be useful in some lineups, especially against some opponents.  Perhaps someone you give the room exception to.  Perhaps someone like Dwayne Dedmon -- an elite rebounder at both ends of the floor, capable of altering shots, and not a total liability from the free throw line (67% career, 75% and 70% the last two seasons.)

Certainly the room exception was made for a role player like Dedmon to give you 10 minutes some nights and 20 minutes on other nights, as the 9th or 10th man in the rotation (even if he technically starts because most teams still start the game "big.")

[Somebody]

“But so do I think, Jaylen (Brown) and Jayson Tatum. I think both of those guys are outstanding rebounders. You know, everyone just assumes rebounding is you go get a center who can rebound and then all your problems are solved. That certainly can help, but a lot of times that creates problems on the other end, unless that guy is really, really skilled. Then you have Shaquille O’Neal or Wilt Chamberlain.

This is what I see on this board all the time. People want us to get some horrible center just because he can rebound, but they don't think about all the other negatives a one-dimensional big man brings to the table. We do need rebounding help, but if he's a drag in other areas, it may not be worth it. 

If you do want a big who has other skills, they tend to be really expensive and may even be a star-level guy. That, in essence, is what Ainge is saying. He's not going to go for the middle-class overpaid guy. We'll probably sign someone who is decent enough, to low money.

We're not going to trade for/sign guys like Len, Valanciunas, Vucevic, Monroe, Drummond, Jordan, so forget it. All those guys are stuck in the post, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just not an ability worth what they are paid (though Vucevic's deal is actually allright at $12/year).

As long as teams are still overpaying centers that aren't multi-skilled, they will continue to be bad investments in today's NBA and that's exactly what the Celtics want to avoid.

Agree but if we could get a guy like Kyle O'Quinn for cheap Ainge would pounce on the deal. He can both bang and play with finesse.

[Celtics4ever]

Then you have Shaquille O’Neal or Wilt Chamberlain.

Both these guys were great centers but do you really think they were that skilled or just big and good.   I think the latter.   Shaq basically never developed a jumper, for instance.   His skills were jump hook and dunk although I have always thought he was a under rated passer.

[Somebody]

Then you have Shaquille O’Neal or Wilt Chamberlain.

Both these guys were great centers but do you really think they were that skilled or just big and good.   I think the latter.   Shaq basically never developed a jumper, for instance.   His skills were jump hook and dunk although I have always thought he was a under rated passer.

I think both were pretty skilled, especially Wilt, who had fadeaways, 3 point hook shots (yes he shoots them in practice and makes them) and guard dribbling skills. Shaq was no slouch, his ball handling was pretty good for his size and he also had some nice counter moves to his almost unstoppable spin-dunk/jump hook move.

[Surferdad]

“But so do I think, Jaylen (Brown) and Jayson Tatum. I think both of those guys are outstanding rebounders. You know, everyone just assumes rebounding is you go get a center who can rebound and then all your problems are solved. That certainly can help, but a lot of times that creates problems on the other end, unless that guy is really, really skilled. Then you have Shaquille O’Neal or Wilt Chamberlain.

This is what I see on this board all the time. People want us to get some horrible center just because he can rebound, but they don't think about all the other negatives a one-dimensional big man brings to the table. We do need rebounding help, but if he's a drag in other areas, it may not be worth it. 

If you do want a big who has other skills, they tend to be really expensive and may even be a star-level guy. That, in essence, is what Ainge is saying. He's not going to go for the middle-class overpaid guy. We'll probably sign someone who is decent enough, to low money.

We're not going to trade for/sign guys like Len, Valanciunas, Vucevic, Monroe, Drummond, Jordan, so forget it. All those guys are stuck in the post, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just not an ability worth what they are paid (though Vucevic's deal is actually allright at $12/year).

As long as teams are still overpaying centers that aren't multi-skilled, they will continue to be bad investments in today's NBA and that's exactly what the Celtics want to avoid.

Exactly, but people are stubborn or think it's a trend, lol.
Anyway, they will all get it one day.

Think about why Detroit has been shopping Drummond for a year?
Think about why Clippers tried to shop Jordan (they are not tanking)
Why Atlanta traded Superman? (they just sign him big money)
Why Milwaukee tried to trade Monroe and he's a bench player now.

That should be more than coincidence for you to reconsider the way you see the center position.

Rebounding is a strange animal nowadays. You look at Chicago that was the best (or one of the best) rebounding regular season team, despite having no top rebounder.
You rebound as a team, length and athleticism grab rebounds.
Finish the 90s when you could win a game by out-rebounding your opponent lol

I think the trade was fine BUT, it's not consistent with what Ainge just said.  He traded away their best rebounder and a guy who does it from a backcourt position no less, for a mediocre rebounder who plays in the frontcourt. 

[inverselock]

Added lots of size on the wing.  Can play big small ball.   Should help defensively.

C's have added lots of scoring.  Hayward and don't underestimate Morris.  High level iso scorer.

[BlackCeltic]

“But so do I think, Jaylen (Brown) and Jayson Tatum. I think both of those guys are outstanding rebounders. You know, everyone just assumes rebounding is you go get a center who can rebound and then all your problems are solved. That certainly can help, but a lot of times that creates problems on the other end, unless that guy is really, really skilled. Then you have Shaquille O’Neal or Wilt Chamberlain.

This is what I see on this board all the time. People want us to get some horrible center just because he can rebound, but they don't think about all the other negatives a one-dimensional big man brings to the table. We do need rebounding help, but if he's a drag in other areas, it may not be worth it. 

If you do want a big who has other skills, they tend to be really expensive and may even be a star-level guy. That, in essence, is what Ainge is saying. He's not going to go for the middle-class overpaid guy. We'll probably sign someone who is decent enough, to low money.

We're not going to trade for/sign guys like Len, Valanciunas, Vucevic, Monroe, Drummond, Jordan, so forget it. All those guys are stuck in the post, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just not an ability worth what they are paid (though Vucevic's deal is actually allright at $12/year).

As long as teams are still overpaying centers that aren't multi-skilled, they will continue to be bad investments in today's NBA and that's exactly what the Celtics want to avoid.

Exactly, but people are stubborn or think it's a trend, lol.
Anyway, they will all get it one day.

Think about why Detroit has been shopping Drummond for a year?
Think about why Clippers tried to shop Jordan (they are not tanking)
Why Atlanta traded Superman? (they just sign him big money)
Why Milwaukee tried to trade Monroe and he's a bench player now.

That should be more than coincidence for you to reconsider the way you see the center position.

Rebounding is a strange animal nowadays. You look at Chicago that was the best (or one of the best) rebounding regular season team, despite having no top rebounder.
You rebound as a team, length and athleticism grab rebounds.
Finish the 90s when you could win a game by out-rebounding your opponent lol

I argue with one of my friends about this all the time. If you are unable to dribble the ball up the court as a big man, youre a dinosaur. This is the single reason why I give props to Horford, even though he scares me every time he decides to ignore our guard asking for the ball. The centers you mentioned are all stiffs in todays NBA. Cousins, AD, Jokic, and Porzingus are the type of Centers Im sure Brad wants and there are a couple of good ones in next years draft. Until we land one, Horford is our guy.

This is the same reason Ive been calling Bradley a dinosaur for years. How are you a 6'2 guard in the current NBA and not skilled enough to break your defender down off the dribble? Avery is amazing in pretty much every other aspect, but his ball handling is why he is stuck as an undersized 2 guard. To his credit, he finds other ways to get the job done. Crowder is the last dinosaur remaining, but his contract and versatility is saving him.

[SHAQATTACK]

i be comfortable with Anthony Davis on the Celtics .

[Smitty77]

“But so do I think, Jaylen (Brown) and Jayson Tatum. I think both of those guys are outstanding rebounders. You know, everyone just assumes rebounding is you go get a center who can rebound and then all your problems are solved. That certainly can help, but a lot of times that creates problems on the other end, unless that guy is really, really skilled. Then you have Shaquille O’Neal or Wilt Chamberlain.

This is what I see on this board all the time. People want us to get some horrible center just because he can rebound, but they don't think about all the other negatives a one-dimensional big man brings to the table. We do need rebounding help, but if he's a drag in other areas, it may not be worth it. 

If you do want a big who has other skills, they tend to be really expensive and may even be a star-level guy. That, in essence, is what Ainge is saying. He's not going to go for the middle-class overpaid guy. We'll probably sign someone who is decent enough, to low money.

We're not going to trade for/sign guys like Len, Valanciunas, Vucevic, Monroe, Drummond, Jordan, so forget it. All those guys are stuck in the post, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just not an ability worth what they are paid (though Vucevic's deal is actually allright at $12/year).

As long as teams are still overpaying centers that aren't multi-skilled, they will continue to be bad investments in today's NBA and that's exactly what the Celtics want to avoid.

Vucevic shot around 31% from three last year, taking 1 shot per game.  Before that, the most he had averaged per game was in his first year, .2 per game, when he shot 37.5%.  Perhaps he took five times more per game this year as it is a shot he is working on and adding to his arsenal.  V is a guy that had a 19.19 PER last year and has been the epitome of consistency for the last five years!!

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/6478/nikola-vucevic

And as you mentioned, his salary is a REAL BARGAIN for a legit big man in today's market!!!

Notice that he has also averaged almost 3 assists per game the last two years on HORRIBLE Magic teams!!!

He has also averaged around 17 points per game and around 10 rebounds per game the last three years!!

He is NOT a one trick pony!!!!

Smitty77

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

i be comfortable with Anthony Davis on the Celtics .

lol

[LilRip]

When people talk about offense, they get bogged down on scoring and range. If you have 4 shooters, having one big man isn't going to kill your offense ESPECIALLY if that Big can set terrific (aka borderline dirty or just outright dirty) screens.

For example, Bogut in that 70 win warriors team couldn't shoot the 3 but he played a decent amount of minutes and his biggest contribution on offense was his passing and the illegal screens he routinely got away with. He didn't play 30+ minutes nor did he need to. If we could find an enforcer who could board and set screens to free up our guys, I think he'd be a great fit. Even if he could only play 20mpg.