What is the reason for the relative lack of interest in coming to the Celtics?

[Roy H.]

I am fully prepared for Hayward to go elsewhere. It fits what has become a fairly consistent pattern of inaction from this front office, a pattern that I imagine won't change until Ainge and Grousbeck begin to feel the heat when this cute collection of role players and IT plateaus on the floor.

In the meantime, I'll just sit back and chuckle at those of you who insist in putting your faith into Danny Ainge and enjoy all the rationalizing of his inaction you do.

The East is ready to be taken over. It will be a shame if someone else does it.

please feel free to send your resume for the GM job to Wyc! good luck!

I've never understood the argument that you need to be an expert in a field to criticize people in that field.

If you go to a 5-star restaurant, can you only critique a meal if you can do better? Can you only criticize books or movies if you are capable of producing something superior?

[tarheelsxxiii]

Roy's not happy with Ainge right now.  If we miss on Hayward, the forum may be shut down for a day or two...

And all things considered, I agree.  If I'm understanding correctly, Boston chose not to trade #3 for Butler; Smart, Crowder, and multiple non-lotto firsts for George.  If true, that's pretty reckless.

is there any proof that is exactly what we offered? suppose PG bailed?

this is the part that blows my mind...


why are so many people ok with a rental of pg?

if he walks then we're left without smart crowder and probably the memphis pick(underrated pick)

i'm SO FREAKING GLAD danny is our gm

You act like I'm stating a desire for an impulsive, win-now move.  It's clear to any one with a brain that you don't make the move without PG signing an extension, or a strong guarantee that he'd re-sign.  Clearly there are moving parts.  But if a concerted effort wasn't made to snag PG/Butler, or a reasonable offer was turned down, then that very well could've been a mistake.  It's also entirely possible that four straight top-5 picks could not result in a player of their caliber.

[moiso]

I am fully prepared for Hayward to go elsewhere. It fits what has become a fairly consistent pattern of inaction from this front office, a pattern that I imagine won't change until Ainge and Grousbeck begin to feel the heat when this cute collection of role players and IT plateaus on the floor.

In the meantime, I'll just sit back and chuckle at those of you who insist in putting your faith into Danny Ainge and enjoy all the rationalizing of his inaction you do.

The East is ready to be taken over. It will be a shame if someone else does it.

please feel free to send your resume for the GM job to Wyc! good luck!

I've never understood the argument that you need to be an expert in a field to criticize people in that field.

If you go to a 5-star restaurant, can you only critique a meal if you can do better? Can you only criticize books or movies if you are capable of producing something superior?

Can I call myself CoachMoiso and tell everyone on this blog and the Celtics organization that they are idiots?  As Bo says in nearly 100% of his posts, I chuckle and laugh at you.

[Roy H.]

I am fully prepared for Hayward to go elsewhere. It fits what has become a fairly consistent pattern of inaction from this front office, a pattern that I imagine won't change until Ainge and Grousbeck begin to feel the heat when this cute collection of role players and IT plateaus on the floor.

In the meantime, I'll just sit back and chuckle at those of you who insist in putting your faith into Danny Ainge and enjoy all the rationalizing of his inaction you do.

The East is ready to be taken over. It will be a shame if someone else does it.

please feel free to send your resume for the GM job to Wyc! good luck!

I've never understood the argument that you need to be an expert in a field to criticize people in that field.

If you go to a 5-star restaurant, can you only critique a meal if you can do better? Can you only criticize books or movies if you are capable of producing something superior?

Can I call myself CoachMoiso and tell everyone on this blog and the Celtics organization that they are idiots?  As Bo says in nearly 100% of his posts, I chuckle and laugh at you.

You can, minus the personal attacks. I expect that in some instances you'd be correct and in others you'd be wrong.

[mmmmm]

The timing and premise of this thread is a head scratched to me...

Oh, Carmelo lifted his no-trade clause to two Super Teams, big deal.

Griffin didn't meet with ANY team in free-agency. So what does that have to do with Boston?

We got a meeting with what is seen as the #2 coveted free-agent this season, a free-agent that only met with 2 teams outside of his current one.

I mean... your timing on this is a head scratcher.

No it's not.  The assumption is Hayward isn't coming here, which is a reasonable position.  There are constantly threads built on assumptions, just go with it...

I do believe that is called, "Begging the question..."

[Roy H.]

Roy's not happy with Ainge right now.  If we miss on Hayward, the forum may be shut down for a day or two...

And all things considered, I agree.  If I'm understanding correctly, Boston chose not to trade #3 for Butler; Smart, Crowder, and multiple non-lotto firsts for George.  If true, that's pretty reckless.

is there any proof that is exactly what we offered? suppose PG bailed?

this is the part that blows my mind...


why are so many people ok with a rental of pg?

if he walks then we're left without smart crowder and probably the memphis pick(underrated pick)

i'm SO FREAKING GLAD danny is our gm

You act like I'm stating a desire for an impulsive, win-now move.  It's clear to any one with a brain that you don't make the move without PG signing an extension, or a strong guarantee that he'd re-sign.  Clearly there are moving parts.  But if a concerted effort wasn't made to snag PG/Butler, or a reasonable offer was turned down, then that very well could've been a mistake.  It's also entirely possible that four straight top-5 picks could not result in a player of their caliber.

That's the thing: it's incredibly unlikely that any of our young core / draft picks ever become as good as Paul George. It's virtually a certainty that none of Smart, Crowder and late firsts reach that level.

Championships are so rare that you have to take small / moderate risks. I get not wanting to deal a top-5 pick. I don't understand not being willing to trade role players for a superstar.

[Fan from VT]

Ainge is not perfect, but some food for thought:

- All teams have the same salary cap restrictions
- Some teams have more willingness than others to pay luxury tax, etc.
- Some teams have more desirable non-basketball reasons to play there.

Since Ainge was hired, the Celtics are:
- 6th in wins (Spurs, Mavs, Rockets, Heat, Denver Boston)
- Tied 5th in titles (Miami/Spurs 3, Warriers/Lakers 2, Cavs/pistons/Mavs/Celtics 1).
- Tied 6th for finals appearances (Heat 5, Cavs/Spurs/Lakers 4, Warriors 3, Boston/Detroit/Dallas 2, OKC/Orlando 1)

[BudweiserCeltic]

Roy's not happy with Ainge right now.  If we miss on Hayward, the forum may be shut down for a day or two...

And all things considered, I agree.  If I'm understanding correctly, Boston chose not to trade #3 for Butler; Smart, Crowder, and multiple non-lotto firsts for George.  If true, that's pretty reckless.

is there any proof that is exactly what we offered? suppose PG bailed?

this is the part that blows my mind...


why are so many people ok with a rental of pg?

if he walks then we're left without smart crowder and probably the memphis pick(underrated pick)

i'm SO FREAKING GLAD danny is our gm

You act like I'm stating a desire for an impulsive, win-now move.  It's clear to any one with a brain that you don't make the move without PG signing an extension, or a strong guarantee that he'd re-sign.  Clearly there are moving parts.  But if a concerted effort wasn't made to snag PG/Butler, or a reasonable offer was turned down, then that very well could've been a mistake.  It's also entirely possible that four straight top-5 picks could not result in a player of their caliber.

That's the thing: it's incredibly unlikely that any of our young core / draft picks ever become as good as Paul George. It's virtually a certainty that none of Smart, Crowder and late firsts reach that level.

Championships are so rare that you have to take small / moderate risks. I get not wanting to deal a top-5 pick. I don't understand not being willing to trade role players for a superstar.

You're leaving out the repercussions of our cap space, the limited window we've had with it... the first time in history at that as it is.

Doing trades that would hamper your cap space on players with limited years in their contract, while giving away assets, it's not an efficient way of going about things, particularly when the offers reported already have you overpaying as it is.

Once cap space is used up, and all the bargain contracts we have are gone (Crowder, Isaiah, Bradley), turning assets into legit players would become a higher priority. Trading before cap space is used limits your buying power.

[flybono]

Weather, income tax, high cost of living, congestion, the list goes on.....

[mmmmm]

Roy's not happy with Ainge right now.  If we miss on Hayward, the forum may be shut down for a day or two...

And all things considered, I agree.  If I'm understanding correctly, Boston chose not to trade #3 for Butler; Smart, Crowder, and multiple non-lotto firsts for George.  If true, that's pretty reckless.

is there any proof that is exactly what we offered? suppose PG bailed?

this is the part that blows my mind...


why are so many people ok with a rental of pg?

if he walks then we're left without smart crowder and probably the memphis pick(underrated pick)

i'm SO FREAKING GLAD danny is our gm

You act like I'm stating a desire for an impulsive, win-now move.  It's clear to any one with a brain that you don't make the move without PG signing an extension, or a strong guarantee that he'd re-sign.  Clearly there are moving parts.  But if a concerted effort wasn't made to snag PG/Butler, or a reasonable offer was turned down, then that very well could've been a mistake.  It's also entirely possible that four straight top-5 picks could not result in a player of their caliber.

That's the thing: it's incredibly unlikely that any of our young core / draft picks ever become as good as Paul George. It's virtually a certainty that none of Smart, Crowder and late firsts reach that level.

Championships are so rare that you have to take small / moderate risks. I get not wanting to deal a top-5 pick. I don't understand not being willing to trade role players for a superstar.

I don't see any evidence that Danny was unwilling to trade role players for a superstar.  In fact the rumor was that he was willing to send Crowder plus one other _starter_ plus non-lottery pick(s) for George.   

But he wasn't willing to do so before he first finished his business with Hayward.  And that makes perfect sense because he can't do anything but cap-neutral moves until he knows whether he's going to sign Hayward.

It seems to me that some fans are confusing Danny needing to do things in a particular order (in order to manage his cap space) with "hesitation". 

[Surferdad]

Roy's not happy with Ainge right now.  If we miss on Hayward, the forum may be shut down for a day or two...

And all things considered, I agree.  If I'm understanding correctly, Boston chose not to trade #3 for Butler; Smart, Crowder, and multiple non-lotto firsts for George.  If true, that's pretty reckless.

is there any proof that is exactly what we offered? suppose PG bailed?

this is the part that blows my mind...


why are so many people ok with a rental of pg?

if he walks then we're left without smart crowder and probably the memphis pick(underrated pick)

i'm SO FREAKING GLAD danny is our gm

You act like I'm stating a desire for an impulsive, win-now move.  It's clear to any one with a brain that you don't make the move without PG signing an extension, or a strong guarantee that he'd re-sign.  Clearly there are moving parts.  But if a concerted effort wasn't made to snag PG/Butler, or a reasonable offer was turned down, then that very well could've been a mistake.  It's also entirely possible that four straight top-5 picks could not result in a player of their caliber.

That's the thing: it's incredibly unlikely that any of our young core / draft picks ever become as good as Paul George. It's virtually a certainty that none of Smart, Crowder and late firsts reach that level.

Championships are so rare that you have to take small / moderate risks. I get not wanting to deal a top-5 pick. I don't understand not being willing to trade role players for a superstar.

I don't see any evidence that Danny was unwilling to trade role players for a superstar.  In fact the rumor was that he was willing to send Crowder plus one other _starter_ plus non-lottery pick(s) for George.   

But he wasn't willing to do so before he first finished his business with Hayward.  And that makes perfect sense because he can't do anything but cap-neutral moves until he knows whether he's going to sign Hayward.

It seems to me that some fans are confusing Danny needing to do things in a particular order (in order to manage his cap space) with "hesitation".

Right.  We've gone over this so many times in different threads and even within the same thread, that my only conclusion is that posters are not reading or absorbing it. 

You can make the argument that instead of Ainge being overly conservative and not taking chances, that he is actually taking a big chance by putting everything into the Hayward basket and letting trade and FA opportunities pass by.

[footey]

Roy's not happy with Ainge right now.  If we miss on Hayward, the forum may be shut down for a day or two...

And all things considered, I agree.  If I'm understanding correctly, Boston chose not to trade #3 for Butler; Smart, Crowder, and multiple non-lotto firsts for George.  If true, that's pretty reckless.

is there any proof that is exactly what we offered? suppose PG bailed?

this is the part that blows my mind...


why are so many people ok with a rental of pg?

if he walks then we're left without smart crowder and probably the memphis pick(underrated pick)

i'm SO FREAKING GLAD danny is our gm

You act like I'm stating a desire for an impulsive, win-now move.  It's clear to any one with a brain that you don't make the move without PG signing an extension, or a strong guarantee that he'd re-sign.  Clearly there are moving parts.  But if a concerted effort wasn't made to snag PG/Butler, or a reasonable offer was turned down, then that very well could've been a mistake.  It's also entirely possible that four straight top-5 picks could not result in a player of their caliber.

That's the thing: it's incredibly unlikely that any of our young core / draft picks ever become as good as Paul George. It's virtually a certainty that none of Smart, Crowder and late firsts reach that level.

Championships are so rare that you have to take small / moderate risks. I get not wanting to deal a top-5 pick. I don't understand not being willing to trade role players for a superstar.

bolded is hyperbole.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Roy's not happy with Ainge right now.  If we miss on Hayward, the forum may be shut down for a day or two...

And all things considered, I agree.  If I'm understanding correctly, Boston chose not to trade #3 for Butler; Smart, Crowder, and multiple non-lotto firsts for George.  If true, that's pretty reckless.

is there any proof that is exactly what we offered? suppose PG bailed?

this is the part that blows my mind...


why are so many people ok with a rental of pg?

if he walks then we're left without smart crowder and probably the memphis pick(underrated pick)

i'm SO FREAKING GLAD danny is our gm

You act like I'm stating a desire for an impulsive, win-now move.  It's clear to any one with a brain that you don't make the move without PG signing an extension, or a strong guarantee that he'd re-sign.  Clearly there are moving parts.  But if a concerted effort wasn't made to snag PG/Butler, or a reasonable offer was turned down, then that very well could've been a mistake.  It's also entirely possible that four straight top-5 picks could not result in a player of their caliber.

That's the thing: it's incredibly unlikely that any of our young core / draft picks ever become as good as Paul George. It's virtually a certainty that none of Smart, Crowder and late firsts reach that level.

Championships are so rare that you have to take small / moderate risks. I get not wanting to deal a top-5 pick. I don't understand not being willing to trade role players for a superstar.

I don't see any evidence that Danny was unwilling to trade role players for a superstar.  In fact the rumor was that he was willing to send Crowder plus one other _starter_ plus non-lottery pick(s) for George.   

But he wasn't willing to do so before he first finished his business with Hayward.  And that makes perfect sense because he can't do anything but cap-neutral moves until he knows whether he's going to sign Hayward.

It seems to me that some fans are confusing Danny needing to do things in a particular order (in order to manage his cap space) with "hesitation".

Perhaps some are, but we're not.  Boston been clamoring for years to land top tier talent.  When one becomes available, you do all you can to facilitate it -- ensure a contingency plan with Chi/Indy for post-hypothetical Hayward signing; related, be willing to modestly overpay (both returns were underwhelming); have evidence for Chi/Indy that Hayward is likely to sign with a Butler/PG addition in place, etc.  Point is that hesitation may/may not have been a contributing factor, but it shouldn't have been.

[PhoSita]

I think it's a couple of the reasons the OP mentioned, particularly IT / Horford not being seen as top tier stars and players having extra-curricular interests that are not served by playing in the northeast.

[droopdog7]

I am fully prepared for Hayward to go elsewhere. It fits what has become a fairly consistent pattern of inaction from this front office, a pattern that I imagine won't change until Ainge and Grousbeck begin to feel the heat when this cute collection of role players and IT plateaus on the floor.

In the meantime, I'll just sit back and chuckle at those of you who insist in putting your faith into Danny Ainge and enjoy all the rationalizing of his inaction you do.

The East is ready to be taken over. It will be a shame if someone else does it.

please feel free to send your resume for the GM job to Wyc! good luck!

I've never understood the argument that you need to be an expert in a field to criticize people in that field.

If you go to a 5-star restaurant, can you only critique a meal if you can do better? Can you only criticize books or movies if you are capable of producing something superior?

The issue I have is that some people don't consider the context.  DA is arguably a top5 GM that has already brought a title and multiple title runs and again has the team in great shape for the future. 

So people can whine and complain all they want but to put it bluntly, they are wrong about DA.  So we call out tantrums when we see them.