What is the reason for the relative lack of interest in coming to the Celtics?

[obnoxiousmime]

I know that Hayward hasn't made up his mind yet, but it bothers me that even though the team was getting unbelievable press leading up to until Ainge traded the Fultz pick away, there still is no high-profile guy who's thrown it out there that they'd like to play in Boston. Why the hell is that? It makes me think the Horford signing was a fluke and that the reality is players simply don't see Boston as a desirable place.

I mean, recently Melo has come out as being amenable to a deal to Cleveland or Houston. This, after saying being near NY was important to him due to his child. Well, Boston couldn't be any closer to NY! I know, he's buds with LeBron and Paul. Still, he won't even consider Boston? Houston is going to have a tremendously difficult path to the Finals and he'd rather go there?

I really thought Griffin would have been willing to wait for us, but he took the money, understandably.

Here are the reasons I can come up with:

1) Thomas and Horford for whatever reason are not part of the "club" of elite players like LeBron, Wade, Melo, Paul etc. We've never heard of them contacting their buddies to come here secretly, and nobody says publicly or through leaks that they want to team up with those two. They just don't seem to have a clique or friendship with other top guys. Of course, this may just be a unique thing to LeBron and the other stars of that particular generation.

2) Other star players don't view Thomas and Horford as upper echelon stars, or they feel Thomas is a ball hog whose game won't mesh with them.

3) Ainge's refusal to trade any young players after he's already drafted them leads veterans to believe the Celtics aren't serious about contending now, that they're using their cap space to just use it and the Isaiah/Horford era is a "bridge era" to when the kids inevitably are up for re-signing.

4) Dabbling in entertainment and/or tech is very "in" now and stars want to be close to LA and San Francisco to foster those connections, tend to other business interests.

5) In some free agent cases (e.g. Griffin/Millsap/others) Ainge already made it clear the Celtics weren't interested, or that they had to wait for Hayward first and the players weren't willing to do that.

6) All the other typical reasons: cold weather/state tax/racist history.

Anyway, it's just frustrating because you think Boston may have overcome its past of being a small-market big market team but it certainly seems that way right now. I mean, honestly if we had any desirability as a market this Hayward signing wouldn't even be a question. I know Utah has a good thing going and they aren't a sloppily run franchise, but come on. Take the other factors out of it and just based on roster and future promise we are way ahead of any team out there RIGHT NOW other than maybe Denver and Minnesota. Players should be lining up to take our money. If we traded our roster and situation with Miami's would Hayward even bother coming to Boston for a meeting besides being respectful to his old coach? I doubt it. Miami didn't even make the playoffs last year!

[Roy H.]

I think you hit on most of the reasons.

I'd be interested to know how important #3 is.  I think that stars attract other stars. Does hoarding assets while passing on PG13, Butler, DMC, etc. play a role for players or their agents? Teams like the Rockets are always aggressively pursuing established talent. The Celts, not so much. Does that factor in?

[BudweiserCeltic]

The timing and premise of this thread is a head scratched to me...

Oh, Carmelo lifted his no-trade clause to two Super Teams, big deal.

Griffin didn't meet with ANY team in free-agency. So what does that have to do with Boston?

We got a meeting with what is seen as the #2 coveted free-agent this season, a free-agent that only met with 2 teams outside of his current one.

I mean... your timing on this is a head scratcher.

[Surferdad]

TP for that post, obnoxiousmime.  Like Roy, I think #3 really significant.  It seems clear to me that the IT/Horford/Bradley era is a bridge to the future, NOT a core for championship #18.  The sooner us fans accept this, the happier we will be just watching this team compete while understanding that Brown/Tatum/2 top-5 #18 picks is the real future.

[Surferdad]

The timing and premise of this thread is a head scratched to me...

Oh, Carmelo lifted his no-trade clause to two Super Teams, big deal.

Griffin didn't meet with ANY team in free-agency. So what does that have to do with Boston?

We got a meeting with what is seen as the #2 coveted free-agent this season, a free-agent that only met with 2 teams outside of his current one.

I mean... your timing on this is a head scratcher.

No it's not.  The assumption is Hayward isn't coming here, which is a reasonable position.  There are constantly threads built on assumptions, just go with it...

[Csfan1984]

Could be the C's dont have much interest in too many FAs. I've read and heard DA being called a tire kicker a few times.

[KGBirdBias]

I think it's mainly part of the "club" as you say. Bron, CP3, Wade, Melo. When we had the Big 3 anyone that Ainge wanted would come but we were always over the cap and had to use the MLE or BLE and couldn't sign FAs.

Once we got Stevens and had KD choose between us and the Warriors and signing Horford, it's beginning to change.

I've noticed that Ainge always makes sure he has a white player in the mix. I don't know why but if the player is good, it's better. So getting Hayward would be great.

The way money is being handed out, I'm glad Ainge isn't just throwing money at FAs. I think he he knows the pulse of the city and a good fit is necessary. I thought PG13 would love Boston but Hayward is a better fit. Winning will shut people up and as long as players respect the Celtics, that's all that matters...and they do.

[BudweiserCeltic]

The timing and premise of this thread is a head scratched to me...

Oh, Carmelo lifted his no-trade clause to two Super Teams, big deal.

Griffin didn't meet with ANY team in free-agency. So what does that have to do with Boston?

We got a meeting with what is seen as the #2 coveted free-agent this season, a free-agent that only met with 2 teams outside of his current one.

I mean... your timing on this is a head scratcher.

No it's not.  The assumption is Hayward isn't coming here, which is a reasonable position.  There are constantly threads built on assumptions, just go with it...

Indeed, BUT whether Hayward comes here or not doesn't void the fact that we were only 1 of 2 teams that he showed interest in. So lack of interest it wasn't.

[jambr380]

I think we need to wait until Hayward chooses Utah/Miami over us before we can really delve into this subject. I mean, Ainge has really only shown interest in one free agent this year and that is Hayward. The players we were possibly going to trade for always had to wait because of cap reasons - this isn't breaking news.

The only other FA that the Cs have been linked to is Gallinari, but why would we be interested in him? Everybody is saying that Denver now looks like a formidable team, but all they really did was replace Gallo with Millsap...and we weren't even interested in Millsap. Why would we go with an [apparent] even worse option?

Also, I thought Melo had said he would consider waiving his no-trade clause at the trade deadline for us. Maybe it didn't need to be re-stated.

[Bobshot]

I don't think that's true.

It's more like a case of timing. Ainge has put all his eggs in Hayward's basket. In the meantime, the market is drying up quickly. If he loses out, there won't be much left. Teams are competing with each other for FAs, and they don't wait.

[billysan]

Thanks for the thread, it is thought provoking.

I think numbers 4 and 6 are both relevant to many FA. Guys are willing to overlook cold weather or high taxes if they are close to media and business connections. California and New York get a pass for that reason IMO. They are large enough markets for outside endorsements..

I also think Ainge is very selective on personality types. If he's not interested it could be he believes the player attitude or behaviour off the court isn't a good fit in Boston.  If the player would rather be elsewhere, we aren't going to pay big money and assets to trade for him I guess.

[LilRip]

I've said it on another thread (I forget which one) but I'm fairly certain that guys who are in their prime or entering their prime don't care that we have the BKN picks. Those future draft picks only matter to us fans and the management. Especially since Ainge has seemingly been unwilling to part with any of those picks.

I get it. Those rookies could be the future. But no current FA is thinking too far ahead into the future. Why would they care what the team is like 4 years from now (when their contract is likely up)? They care about competing while still in their prime.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Going on the 2nd page and no one has even hinted at the elephant in the room.  I'll bite...

For as hard as we try, the Celtics internet forum sucks.  Pretty much the long and short of it.  We're competitive, but not in that top tier with Liberty Ballers and Silver Screen and Roll.


Jk.  Hi, Gordy and Robyn.  Love you guys.

[TheSundanceKid]

If they are hesitant on joining because we won't trade our young assets then so be it. They are the future of this club. I think it's shortsighted because they will be ready to compete in a year or two, joining a team that is on the rise should be what a fa wants.

Normally teams can't get a competitive team until their top picks are on their 2nd contracts. They tend to waste a few years of their top players being good enough while they try to build that team. We won't have that problem. It boggles my mind that Hayward or Griffin wouldn't want to play alongside Brown, Smart, Horford and IT for the next 3 years and possibly beyond.

[Fan from VT]

Not sure there is a "reason" beyond being 1 of 30 teams that never had capspace. Even if all 30 NBA cities were equally desirable locations, that would still be 1/30. Bump the current Celtics up due to good team good coach; bump them down due to not being NY/LA/Bayarea/Miami/Texas desirable locations.


Then look at opportunity and free agents. Not may "big" moves to look at.

The KG trade could count. Convinced him to extend before coming here, rather than opt out and test FA; that's pretty equivalent to a FA sales pitch.

Then I don't think we had capspace until last season, when we got Horford and possibly came down to the wire with Durant. Durant chose a team in San Francisco, California, with Kerr/Curry/Thompson/Iggy/Green with max cap room. Tough to compete with that, regardless of who you are.

Filling in via the MLE with Shaq, Jermaine, Rasheed were not exactly tiny moves; they were relatively sought after for contenders.

This year will be important, but again, it's tough; there are 30 teams, and Boston isn't "inherently" more deserving; it has to match a FA basketball-wise and also family/lifestyle-wise. What happened 20+ years ago is irrelevant.