NBA Exec on trade - "Not highway robbery, but it's close"

[playdream]

Philly's getting the player they covet just for swapping this year and giving up another team's draft pick, and that part might not even happen for two years.

Why is that being talked about like it isn't an asset of value?  It will probably be another top 5 pick.  Who cares if the 76ers traded for it, Celtics have it now.

If you want to have a "house money" attitude about them trading that pick away, how about this pick is the Nets.  Ainge is just giving up another team's draft pick to get two.

Ainge just turned one lottery pick into two and some people still complain
And as much as i wanted Fulz he surely didn't have that winner/killer mentality, and his knee is a red flag

[KGs Knee]

I don't know what people expected.return, probably.

Ainge either keeping the pick or getting a better return, probably.

As I said in the part of my post that you left out, he wasn't taking Fultz, he doesn't want him, so why keep the pick? Last year when he took Brown at #3 everyone criticized him for not trading down. This year he not only traded down to get the guy he wants, he got a future likely top 5 pick for it. That is awesome. Getting a top 5 pick is a great asset. He purposely didn't take any players back in the trade because he wants to keep the cap space this summer for a max free agent. Excellent move overall.

As I said in the part of my post that you left out, he wasn't taking Fultz, he doesn't want him, so why keep the pick? Last year when he took Brown at #3 everyone criticized him for not trading down. This year he not only traded down to get the guy he wants, he got a future likely top 5 pick for it. That is awesome. Getting a top 5 pick is a great asset. He purposely didn't take any players back in the trade because he wants to keep the cap space this summer for a max free agent. Excellent move overall.

Exactly. He actually cut salary. I think it was about 1.8M, which will go directly to Hayward or Blake.

1. What makes you so sure those guys will sign here?

2. What makes you so sure that the LA or the Sacramento pick is going to be a top 5 pick? If that lands at #1, we miss out on it.

Now I'm not so sure myself that Fultz will be the next Brandon Roy, but his skills, talent and physical tools makes it much more likely. We have very little assurance that the two things you mentioned are going to materialize, and we are taking that gamble at the expense of what could be a franchise player.

It's not highway robbery, but it's close, for the darn Sixers!

1. I can't be 100% sure of what will happen.  But players talk, and it's entirely possible Hayward or Griffin told Thomas if we get another star first they'll sign here.  Ainge might already have the next deal lined up.

2. I have no idea where that Laker pick will end up.  But I'm not terribly worried about it either.  I feel betting on Sacramento sucking as a fail safe is a safe bet.  That pick will be top 10 at worst.  We could end up with #1 and #2 next year (best case).

This deal could definitely go badly for us.  But it could also lead to multiple championships over the next decade starting as soon as next year.  This feels a bit like 2007 all over again, but with younger players potentially coming our way this time.

[Tr1boy]

Jordan Schultz‏ Verified account
@Schultz_Report
Asked an NBA exec for his opinion on Philly-Boston trade. His answer: "That's Danny [Ainge] for you. Not a highway robbery, but it's close."

Jordan Schultz Retweeted Jordan Schultz
Genera idea is that #celtics continue to acquire more picks
-- not merely the one extra from this trade. Are there ever 2 many picks tho?

Granted I love Fultz for Philly, but C's still win this deal, at least in current iteration. Move down 2 spots and just acquire more picks.

My take: coin flip as to who is better between fultz, Jackson and ball. Boston still gets one of those three, plus maybe future top 6 pick

Pretty much as I see it. Many fans seems to love the allure of having the #1 pick more than the actual player they would be getting.

[Eddie20]

I don't know what people expected.return, probably.

Ainge either keeping the pick or getting a better return, probably.

As I said in the part of my post that you left out, he wasn't taking Fultz, he doesn't want him, so why keep the pick? Last year when he took Brown at #3 everyone criticized him for not trading down. This year he not only traded down to get the guy he wants, he got a future likely top 5 pick for it. That is awesome. Getting a top 5 pick is a great asset. He purposely didn't take any players back in the trade because he wants to keep the cap space this summer for a max free agent. Excellent move overall.

As I said in the part of my post that you left out, he wasn't taking Fultz, he doesn't want him, so why keep the pick? Last year when he took Brown at #3 everyone criticized him for not trading down. This year he not only traded down to get the guy he wants, he got a future likely top 5 pick for it. That is awesome. Getting a top 5 pick is a great asset. He purposely didn't take any players back in the trade because he wants to keep the cap space this summer for a max free agent. Excellent move overall.

Exactly. He actually cut salary. I think it was about 1.8M, which will go directly to Hayward or Blake.

1. What makes you so sure those guys will sign here?

2. What makes you so sure that the LA or the Sacramento pick is going to be a top 5 pick? If that lands at #1, we miss out on it.

Now I'm not so sure myself that Fultz will be the next Brandon Roy, but his skills, talent and physical tools makes it much more likely. We have very little assurance that the two things you mentioned are going to materialize, and we are taking that gamble at the expense of what could be a franchise player.

It's not highway robbery, but it's close, for the darn Sixers!

1. What makes you think one of those guys won't? Everything that has been reported has both players interested us.

2. Not a certainty, but pretty likely. The Lakers are going to be pretty bad again next year. They're saving any cap space for Paul George next summer. Even if they land #1 and we don't receive the Lakers pick, I feel confident that the Kings are going to be top 5 awful for the next several seasons. If you think they aren't can you offer your thoughts on how they're expected to improve? Also, in case you're confused, the Kings pick is completely unprotected. If it lands #1 in 2019 it's still ours. Oh, and that happens to be the Bagley Jr. class.

[Scintan]

Philly's getting the player they covet just for swapping this year and giving up another team's draft pick, and that part might not even happen for two years.

Why is that being talked about like it isn't an asset of value?  It will probably be another top 5 pick.  Who cares if the 76ers traded for it, Celtics have it now.

For next year, there are a lot of protections on the pick.  It's therefore possible that the pick doesn't get made until the following year, which lessens the value of the pick.

And, as for the question of who cares if the 76ers traded for it, my quess is that it matters a great deal to the 76ers right now, because they've still got their own first rounder for next year, in case things implode for them.

If you want to have a "house money" attitude about them trading that pick away, how about this pick is the Nets.  Ainge is just giving up another team's draft pick to get two.

But Ainge is not just giving up another team's draft pick to get two.  The traded pick was the Celtics pick, via pick choice.

[Scintan]

And as much as i wanted Fulz he surely didn't have that winner/killer mentality

How many times have you spoken with him, in order to know this?

[Eja117]

Article I just saw about the Lakers almost certainly taking Ball.  This quote:

It’s not Lonzo or bust in this extraordinarily deep draft. There’s usually a dropoff after the top one or two players, but not this year. “In a normal year, four players in this draft could have gone No. 1,” a GM told me last week, naming Washington’s Markelle Fultz, Ball, Kansas’ Josh Jackson and Duke’s Jayson Tatum (in that order).

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/06/16/heisler-lakers-still-look-fixated-on-lonzo-ball-for-better-and-worse/

Sure they could

[IDreamCeltics]

Guys be happy, Josh Jackson would have been a great pick in the 1990's when shooting and character didn't matter.

At least he hit .566% from the FT line!

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I don't know what people expected.return, probably.

Ainge either keeping the pick or getting a better return, probably.

As I said in the part of my post that you left out, he wasn't taking Fultz, he doesn't want him, so why keep the pick? Last year when he took Brown at #3 everyone criticized him for not trading down. This year he not only traded down to get the guy he wants, he got a future likely top 5 pick for it. That is awesome. Getting a top 5 pick is a great asset. He purposely didn't take any players back in the trade because he wants to keep the cap space this summer for a max free agent. Excellent move overall.

As I said in the part of my post that you left out, he wasn't taking Fultz, he doesn't want him, so why keep the pick? Last year when he took Brown at #3 everyone criticized him for not trading down. This year he not only traded down to get the guy he wants, he got a future likely top 5 pick for it. That is awesome. Getting a top 5 pick is a great asset. He purposely didn't take any players back in the trade because he wants to keep the cap space this summer for a max free agent. Excellent move overall.

Exactly. He actually cut salary. I think it was about 1.8M, which will go directly to Hayward or Blake.

1. What makes you so sure those guys will sign here?

2. What makes you so sure that the LA or the Sacramento pick is going to be a top 5 pick? If that lands at #1, we miss out on it.

Now I'm not so sure myself that Fultz will be the next Brandon Roy, but his skills, talent and physical tools makes it much more likely. We have very little assurance that the two things you mentioned are going to materialize, and we are taking that gamble at the expense of what could be a franchise player.

It's not highway robbery, but it's close, for the darn Sixers!

1. I can't be 100% sure of what will happen.  But players talk, and it's entirely possible Hayward or Griffin told Thomas if we get another star first they'll sign here.  Ainge might already have the next deal lined up.

2. I have no idea where that Laker pick will end up.  But I'm not terribly worried about it either.  I feel betting on Sacramento sucking as a fail safe is a safe bet.  That pick will be top 10 at worst.  We could end up with #1 and #2 next year (best case).

This deal could definitely go badly for us.  But it could also lead to multiple championships over the next decade starting as soon as next year.  This feels a bit like 2007 all over again, but with younger players potentially coming our way this time.

Then I will eat crow when that happens.

But as it stands, I think the reaction is warranted. At face value, it really looks like we are giving up the best player in the draft and gambling on all these things to fall our way. That's too much uncertainty for me, and for people who agree, to feel comfortable.

I would feel more comfy if we would have just took Fultz. We'd still have the team that was the #1 seed in the East, we'd still be able to maneuver room to sign a max player, and we can have what could be a fantastic player that could lead us in the future.

Instead, we are betting on hope that all things go right...

[Roy H.]

The entire offense went through Fultz and he went from a likely lottery pick before the season, to the #1 overall pick as large part of those individual accomplishments

Chad Ford had Fultz #1 in August 2016, before any "individual accomplishments".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aseaofblue.com/platform/amp/2016/8/23/12613618/nba-mock-draft-2017-chad-ford-1-0

[Snakehead]

Philly's getting the player they covet just for swapping this year and giving up another team's draft pick, and that part might not even happen for two years.

Why is that being talked about like it isn't an asset of value?  It will probably be another top 5 pick.  Who cares if the 76ers traded for it, Celtics have it now.

For next year, there are a lot of protections on the pick.  It's therefore possible that the pick doesn't get made until the following year, which lessens the value of the pick.

And, as for the question of who cares if the 76ers traded for it, my quess is that it matters a great deal to the 76ers right now, because they've still got their own first rounder for next year, in case things implode for them.

If you want to have a "house money" attitude about them trading that pick away, how about this pick is the Nets.  Ainge is just giving up another team's draft pick to get two.

But Ainge is not just giving up another team's draft pick to get two.  The traded pick was the Celtics pick, via pick choice.

Why is the pick less valuable the next year?  When it could actually be the number 1 pick?

He traded for the Nets pick and then just traded it.  I don't even agree with your logic in the least but you aren't even using consistency.

[KGBirdBias]

Remember if we had the 2016 draft all over again some might say the way it went shows Ainge made the best pick in the top 5. Brown was the most effective, got the most minutes. Sure Simmons may ultimately be better but he can't even get on the floor.

Need I remind people that Brown destroyed Simmons in HS as well.

Sixers-Simmons
Lakers-Ingram
Celtics-Brown

[Scintan]

Why is the pick less valuable the next year?  When it could actually be the number 1 pick?

He traded for the Nets pick and then just traded it.  I don't even agree with your logic in the least but you aren't even using consistency.

Why is a pick delayed of less value?  Are you serious about that question?

[bellerephon]

I think the key issue is how one evaluates Fultz. If you think he's got elite potential then the trade looks bad. If you think he does not, or if you think Jackson or Tatum has more potential then the trade looks very good. Clearly Ainge does not agree with the consensus that Fultz is the best prospect in this draft, and BTW he's not alone in that opinion. Several sources have noted that some NBA execs don't rate Fultz as the best. Doesn't mean he's right, but if that's his analysis then the trade makes a lot of sense.

[Eddie20]

The entire offense went through Fultz and he went from a likely lottery pick before the season, to the #1 overall pick as large part of those individual accomplishments

Chad Ford had Fultz #1 in August 2016, before any "individual accomplishments".

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/4z8wbj/chad_fords_mock_draft_10_2017/

If so, then it was after his performance during the summer. Because Giles was far and away the #1 pick until the injures. In fact, for a long time Giles and Jackson #1 and #2.

Regardless, you edited the rest of my post. Again, you were hellbent against the KG/Pierce trade when it happened. That's why it's best to be patient in passing judgement without knowing where future picks will land and who we draft. For example, if Bagley Jr. were eligible and I would be willing to bet anything that he would be the #1 pick and we don't make the deal.