Idea - AB for Jahlil

[Celtics978Fan]

Honestly I'd give 76ers Rozier and our two late 2nd rounds for Okafor.  They get a young guard and we get some much needed help in the front court.

You haven't watched Jahlil play, have you?

Why is this response so popular. Almost nobody would make a comment on a player if they hadn't watched him play. This is a basketball blog. We all watch basketball and give our opinions on players. People can disagree.

I see Okafor play and I see a player with good footwork and down low moves and an inconsistant mid range jumper. I also see an atrocious defender, a ball stopper, a poor passer, a player who doesn't know what to do on traps and doubleteams and is overall a massive net negative on his team.

Its okay if you see the same thing. The evidence suggests our opinion is valid. I am sure the poster has some evidence that his opinion is valid. Present your evidence. Don't just ask if someone has seen him play. People who have opinions obviously have seen him play.

Thank you for backing my statement.  I agree with what you say about Okafor and his limitations he's shown so far.  I'm a believer in Boston he'd be able to fix his issues and only improve his strength because of two main reasons, Horford and Stevens.  Sometimes having that veteran can change the way you play, Kevin Garnett did the same for many young players when he was here. I believe Al Horford to do the same Jahlil Okafor. Plus with him being such a young big man, it would be nice to have for the future. The reason I offer up Rozier is for the simple reason me personally I would rather keep Smart and Bradley.  Also I have no problem trading Thomas to give Smart, Bradley and Fultz full range in or backcourt, especially if we can get value for Thomas. 

I look at the Celtics as we're not going to win a title in the next 3 to 4 years, even if we add a Hayward.  Not saying we won't be competitive but looking at what the landscape is showing.  Yes, could we go deep in the playoffs again but not going to get past the west at this moment. 

[crimson_stallion]

Bradley is a massive overpay for Okafor.   

Im not against taking a gamble on the big guy,  but he's a very high risk player given his all around limitations.   I wouldn't be willing to give up any core players or high upside prospects in the deal.   If it means giving up non- Brooklyn picks and bench guys I'd be up for that,  but I doubt Philly would be interested, as they seem to be asking morev for him then he's worth.

My biggest worry with Okafor is that most of his biggest weaknesses to me are his defense and rebounding, and they seem to stem from Physical limitations (lack of mobility and conditioning) and attitude (laziness and lack of 'desire').  Those are probably not the two limitations you want in a guy, because physical limitations are often things that can't be changed,  and attitude is a personal trait that few players tend to change.

Also because when you get a guy who lacks conditioning and lacks work ethic,  then you end up with guys like Sully - who have all the talent in the world, but can't stay on an NBA team.  Okafor already seems scary close to becoming one of those guys.

BUT if he did get motivated,  did improve his conditioning and motor to the point where he could improve to at least a passable (E.g. Greg Monroe) defender and above average rebounder,  then he could become a very nice player.   Thats a big if though.

[Rosco917]

There's this thing called "style of play" each team tries to build a team around. You can't just throw a team together with different player styles, and hope they mesh.

DA and Stevens have chosen a style of play that they want to build around, as they've stated its pace and space, featuring the 3 pointer as a weapon, and Okafor doesn't fit that style of play.

Jahlil is an old fashion back to the basket center who is more than suspect defensively.

I'll pass.

 

[Somebody]

I'm only going to trade our seconds this year for Okafor.

[nostar]

I just don't see where Jalil fits in today's NBA. AB is a defensive stopper at the 1/2 with a reliable 3pt shot on offense. You don't move that for a guy who can't start for a lottery team.

[gouki88]

One of our picks in the 50's for Okafor, maybe. One of the premier wing defenders in the NBA, who is our second best scorer and one of the best rebounders for his size for Okafor? Never ever.

[bmac934]

There's this thing called "style of play" each team tries to build a team around. You can't just throw a team together with different player styles, and hope they mesh.

DA and Stevens have chosen a style of play that they want to build around, as they've stated its pace and space, featuring the 3 pointer as a weapon, and Okafor doesn't fit that style of play.

Jahlil is an old fashion back to the basket center who is more than suspect defensively.

I'll pass.

 

Valid.  But theres also this person called a "coach" whose job is to create this style of play you speak of based around the personal that this person called a "GM" puts on the team.  And this "GM" looks for talent as well & would even throw the current "style of play" in the garbage if he thinks it would be beneficial to the team.

Our current core has two years remaining on their contracts.  Our current core is also not good enough to take on CLE or GS unless we are able to sign a top 5 player.  Just throwing it out their. What we have in place is not above being altered.

Nothing in this league is perfect.  I'm sure GS would also like a C for their "pace and space" as well.  If I had a dollar for the amount of times I've seen, "isnt an obvious fit for our system" "underappreciating Crowder and Bradleys contracts" "...stuff that in the grand scheme of things DOES NOT MATTER if you really like the player that is being talked about.  Lebron historically has been surrounded by shooters, and rightfully so.  But do you think DWade's subpar shooting made him second guess going to MIA.  NO!!!!

Hope they'll mesh?  Definitely one of the more ridiculous statements I've seen on this website.  These are grown men who have played basketball for 20 years, it's their job to "mesh" lol.  There are pros and cons for every player in the league, and JO has areas in his skillset that would and wouldnt compliment this team.  This pace that you speak of, we may get off looks early in the shotclock but we are not a fast break team...we play in the halfcourt.  Their were times this year that Smart and Thomas made Tyler Zeller look like a complete game changer (whose a more traditional center than anyone else on the roster).

I get and respect that a lot of people on here are low on Okafor.  Regardless of style of play, their are two ends on the floor and ya gotta play offense and defense.  Saying no to Okafor is far from what I'm arguing here.  And if were looking at signing a role player/vet to this team, yes fit is huge.  But if theirs a player who you view as elite in what he does & your high on his potential its a completely different story.  For arguments sake as well, we have a bench that could very use a boost right about now.

[nickagneta]

There's this thing called "style of play" each team tries to build a team around. You can't just throw a team together with different player styles, and hope they mesh.

DA and Stevens have chosen a style of play that they want to build around, as they've stated its pace and space, featuring the 3 pointer as a weapon, and Okafor doesn't fit that style of play.

Jahlil is an old fashion back to the basket center who is more than suspect defensively.

I'll pass.

 

Valid.  But theres also this person called a "coach" whose job is to create this style of play you speak of based around the personal that this person called a "GM" puts on the team.  And this "GM" looks for talent as well & would even throw the current "style of play" in the garbage if he thinks it would be beneficial to the team.

Our current core has two years remaining on their contracts.  Our current core is also not good enough to take on CLE or GS unless we are able to sign a top 5 player.  Just throwing it out their. What we have in place is not above being altered.

Nothing in this league is perfect.  I'm sure GS would also like a C for their "pace and space" as well.  If I had a dollar for the amount of times I've seen, "isnt an obvious fit for our system" "underappreciating Crowder and Bradleys contracts" "...stuff that in the grand scheme of things DOES NOT MATTER if you really like the player that is being talked about.  Lebron historically has been surrounded by shooters, and rightfully so.  But do you think DWade's subpar shooting made him second guess going to MIA.  NO!!!!

Hope they'll mesh?  Definitely one of the more ridiculous statements I've seen on this website.  These are grown men who have played basketball for 20 years, it's their job to "mesh" lol.  There are pros and cons for every player in the league, and JO has areas in his skillset that would and wouldnt compliment this team.  This pace that you speak of, we may get off looks early in the shotclock but we are not a fast break team...we play in the halfcourt.  Their were times this year that Smart and Thomas made Tyler Zeller look like a complete game changer (whose a more traditional center than anyone else on the roster).

I get and respect that a lot of people on here are low on Okafor.  Regardless of style of play, their are two ends on the floor and ya gotta play offense and defense.  Saying no to Okafor is far from what I'm arguing here.  And if were looking at signing a role player/vet to this team, yes fit is huge.  But if theirs a player who you view as elite in what he does & your high on his potential its a completely different story.  For arguments sake as well, we have a bench that could very use a boost right about now.

Everything you say here is true, but you change your style of play for a Lebron, Duncan, Durant. Not for a back up center who is the complete opposite of everything your system needs in a big man.

And what makes anyone believe that Ainge is high on Okafor?

[Real World]

I think most fans guage values based on their emotional opinion of a player.  Okafor for #28, to me, seems ridiculous.  It's not like Okafor is pulling a Thomas Robinson, and putting up terrible numbers.  Bad team or not, he's shown that he can score in this league, and has game.  I'd absolutely take a flyer on JO if his value is that low.  Most picks in the late first are flipping burgers before they turn 30.   I'd personally do AB for JO, but if that seems like an overpay, I'd have to imagine that Rozier would be a better return than the 28th pick in the draft.

[Real World]

BTW, I don't think enough people in here realize that even if he stays next year, Bradley is unlikely to be resigned next offseason.   He's likely leaving if he isn't traded.  Either him or IT at the very least.  He's going to get $15 to $20 million on his next contract, and the Celtics won't pay both of them.  Not with all the guards they already have on the roster.

[celticsclay]

I think most fans guage values based on their emotional opinion of a player.  Okafor for #28, to me, seems ridiculous.  It's not like Okafor is pulling a Thomas Robinson, and putting up terrible numbers.  Bad team or not, he's shown that he can score in this league, and has game.  I'd absolutely take a flyer on JO if his value is that low.  Most picks in the late first are flipping burgers before they turn 30.   I'd personally do AB for JO, but if that seems like an overpay, I'd have to imagine that Rozier would be a better return than the 28th pick in the draft.

This is kind of a funny example.

Did you know the year before Okafor came Thomas Robinson actually played for the 76ers and put up 9 points and 7.7 rebounds on 47% shooting in just 18 minutes a game. You realize this is pretty similar to Okafor putting up 11 points and 5 rebounds on 51% shooting in 23 minutes a game? You made have just inadvertently made a really good point against Okafor, unless you want us to get Thomas Robinson for Avery Bradley.

[budMovin]

Keep Bradly and let him be the off guard with Fultz as our PG after this season when IT wants max money. Bradly is criminally underrated.

If Jahlil is as defensively bad as advertised he wont see the floor under CBS.

[Real World]

I think most fans guage values based on their emotional opinion of a player.  Okafor for #28, to me, seems ridiculous.  It's not like Okafor is pulling a Thomas Robinson, and putting up terrible numbers.  Bad team or not, he's shown that he can score in this league, and has game.  I'd absolutely take a flyer on JO if his value is that low.  Most picks in the late first are flipping burgers before they turn 30.   I'd personally do AB for JO, but if that seems like an overpay, I'd have to imagine that Rozier would be a better return than the 28th pick in the draft.

This is kind of a funny example.

Did you know the year before Okafor came Thomas Robinson actually played for the 76ers and put up 9 points and 7.7 rebounds on 47% shooting in just 18 minutes a game. You realize this is pretty similar to Okafor putting up 11 points and 5 rebounds on 51% shooting in 23 minutes a game? You made have just inadvertently made a really good point against Okafor, unless you want us to get Thomas Robinson for Avery Bradley.

That's a tremendous cherry pick of Robinsons career stats.  22 games out of the 313 he's played.

JO avg 17 & 7 his rookie year, and 12 & 5 last year in 8 fewer minutes per game.  I think everyone would agree he's been a disappointment so far, but the idea behind his numbers is that he's shown that he does have some talent.  Robinson on the other hand....

Robinson's season averages since being drafted are:

2013 - 4.8 ppg
2014 - 4.8
2015 - 5.7
2016 - 4.3
2017 - 5.0

Okafor has been far more productive as a pro, and is a much better talent than Robinson.  I'd totally take a flyer on him were I the Celtics.  Put him next to Horford, allowing Al to play the 4, and you might maximize JO's potential.  I'd do it for AB because I think AB is gone anyway, and I'd rather take a shot on an upside big than let him walk for free, or take the 25th pick in the 2019 draft.  But, I'm not Danny Ainge and in DA I trust.

[celticsclay]

I think most fans guage values based on their emotional opinion of a player.  Okafor for #28, to me, seems ridiculous.  It's not like Okafor is pulling a Thomas Robinson, and putting up terrible numbers.  Bad team or not, he's shown that he can score in this league, and has game.  I'd absolutely take a flyer on JO if his value is that low.  Most picks in the late first are flipping burgers before they turn 30.   I'd personally do AB for JO, but if that seems like an overpay, I'd have to imagine that Rozier would be a better return than the 28th pick in the draft.

This is kind of a funny example.

Did you know the year before Okafor came Thomas Robinson actually played for the 76ers and put up 9 points and 7.7 rebounds on 47% shooting in just 18 minutes a game. You realize this is pretty similar to Okafor putting up 11 points and 5 rebounds on 51% shooting in 23 minutes a game? You made have just inadvertently made a really good point against Okafor, unless you want us to get Thomas Robinson for Avery Bradley.

That's a tremendous cherry pick of Robinsons career stats.  22 games out of the 313 he's played.

JO avg 17 & 7 his rookie year, and 12 & 5 last year in 8 fewer minutes per game.  I think everyone would agree he's been a disappointment so far, but the idea behind his numbers is that he's shown that he does have some talent.  Robinson on the other hand....

Robinson's season averages since being drafted are:

2013 - 4.8 ppg
2014 - 4.8
2015 - 5.7
2016 - 4.3
2017 - 5.0

Okafor has been far more productive as a pro, and is a much better talent than Robinson.  I'd totally take a flyer on him were I the Celtics.  Put him next to Horford, allowing Al to play the 4, and you might maximize JO's potential.  I'd do it for AB because I think AB is gone anyway, and I'd rather take a shot on an upside big than let him walk for free, or take the 25th pick in the 2019 draft.  But, I'm not Danny Ainge and in DA I trust.

Yea but isn't it extremely relevant to the discussion? He literally played on the same team as Okafor did, a year earlier, with many of the same teammates. That is the entire point. Players that are not very good could put up some points on those teams cause someone had to score. Don't those Robinson stats scare you a little bit? We very well could be talking about Okafor averaging 6 points somewhere in a year or two if he doesn't figure out defense. 

[Ilikesports17]

I think most fans guage values based on their emotional opinion of a player.  Okafor for #28, to me, seems ridiculous.  It's not like Okafor is pulling a Thomas Robinson, and putting up terrible numbers.  Bad team or not, he's shown that he can score in this league, and has game.  I'd absolutely take a flyer on JO if his value is that low.  Most picks in the late first are flipping burgers before they turn 30.   I'd personally do AB for JO, but if that seems like an overpay, I'd have to imagine that Rozier would be a better return than the 28th pick in the draft.

This is kind of a funny example.

Did you know the year before Okafor came Thomas Robinson actually played for the 76ers and put up 9 points and 7.7 rebounds on 47% shooting in just 18 minutes a game. You realize this is pretty similar to Okafor putting up 11 points and 5 rebounds on 51% shooting in 23 minutes a game? You made have just inadvertently made a really good point against Okafor, unless you want us to get Thomas Robinson for Avery Bradley.

That's a tremendous cherry pick of Robinsons career stats.  22 games out of the 313 he's played.

JO avg 17 & 7 his rookie year, and 12 & 5 last year in 8 fewer minutes per game.  I think everyone would agree he's been a disappointment so far, but the idea behind his numbers is that he's shown that he does have some talent.  Robinson on the other hand....

Robinson's season averages since being drafted are:

2013 - 4.8 ppg
2014 - 4.8
2015 - 5.7
2016 - 4.3
2017 - 5.0

Okafor has been far more productive as a pro, and is a much better talent than Robinson.  I'd totally take a flyer on him were I the Celtics.  Put him next to Horford, allowing Al to play the 4, and you might maximize JO's potential.  I'd do it for AB because I think AB is gone anyway, and I'd rather take a shot on an upside big than let him walk for free, or take the 25th pick in the 2019 draft.  But, I'm not Danny Ainge and in DA I trust.

Out comparison is also pretty misleading.

You list pure ppg when it is the only thing Okafor has done well. He's had much more minutes than TRob and TRob has rebounded at an elite rate.

I'm not gonna get in to how horrible the idea of placing Jah next to Al or the fact that JO for AB is horrible value even if AB is gone anyway.