Fultz is overrated

[RockinRyA]

Let me preface my post with saying that I was a non-believer and have been slowly won over to drafting Fultz #1 and keeping him.

That being said, TP to the OP for his minority viewpoint.

I watched a lot of the PAC-12 Network this winter and a lot of featured PAC-12 games on other networks, because of Ball and the 'Zona kids (Markkanen, Simmons, Trier and Alkins), Rabb and Fultz.

Here are various concerns that I had regarding Fultz throughout the year at various times, some that I still have and some that have been dispelled (as far as I'm concerned) and some that can be argued are his fault, at least in part and some maybe not:

1. HIS team sucked, really sucked. (Blame?: Fultz, Romar, teammates lack of talent, all of these?)

2. Fultz was RARELY in an in-game pressure situation this year. How will he perform in such?
In one such situation in a tight game vs in-state rival WA ST,  he choked. Badly.

3. Sat out his last 4-5 games. What does this mean? Knee issues? Protecting his future? Quitter?
Being smart.

4. Didn't do real well head to head vs quality opponents. (Empty stats?)

5. Doesn't seem to be a truly elite athlete.

Elite offensive skills, great defensive potential based on size alone for his position and uncanny basketball instincts say to me that he has the potential to be a transcendent player. If Danny believes that, he's ours. In DA I trust.

Good summary, I had many of the same observations. Although I probably didn't watch as many games as you did, I did see a number of games and came away from the college season thinking Ball was a better player.  Like you the post season prospect analysis has me thinking better of Fultz, but if I were going with my gut, based on what I saw, I'd go with Ball.

I watched a lot of UCLA games this year (I have been a follower since Baron Davis played there) and Ball didnt look a top2 prospect at all. In fact Id take Tatum, Jackson, and even Fox (if Im on a team without IT) ahead of him.

[ETNCeltics]

I doubt that Fultz by himself would outproduce Tatum and Hield

It doesn't work that way, though. DeMar Derozan and Serge Ibaka combine to outproduce Lebron, but you're not making that trade, are you?

like these extreme examples is not what I'm talking about

are you really going to use Lebron as an example??  Are you saying Fultz is at the same level/hemisphere ?

That's not what he was saying. He can pick any 2 moderately good players and they combined often outproduce an all-star. Lebron was just the most obvious example. You made a poor point, not him.

You go overboard in every thread. Like trying to claim there was little difference in Fultz and the 5th pick. Were that the case, he wouldn't be the consensus #1. Or nitpicking his flaws and downplaying his offensive genius. Hopefully you'll be on board in less than 2 weeks when he's a Celtic.

[RockinRyA]

I doubt that Fultz by himself would outproduce Tatum and Hield

It doesn't work that way, though. DeMar Derozan and Serge Ibaka combine to outproduce Lebron, but you're not making that trade, are you?

like these extreme examples is not what I'm talking about

are you really going to use Lebron as an example??  Are you saying Fultz is at the same level/hemisphere ?

and yes it does work this way... because Fultz, Tatum and Hield haven't proven anything/much yet

A young collegiate prospect like Towns not only showed off his skills but he also racked up wins.. there was no dispute, that he was the clear top talent.... 

With Fultz ...  if he had better teammates... if he had a better coach.... if he just tried harder on defense (it will come you will see)....    there are still question marks

Im pretty sure Al Jefferson+Ryan Gomes+Sebastian Telfair+Gerald Green outproduced Kevin Garnett, but I dont think any of us wont do it again if we had the chance.

[Tr1boy]

I doubt that Fultz by himself would outproduce Tatum and Hield

It doesn't work that way, though. DeMar Derozan and Serge Ibaka combine to outproduce Lebron, but you're not making that trade, are you?

like these extreme examples is not what I'm talking about

are you really going to use Lebron as an example??  Are you saying Fultz is at the same level/hemisphere ?

That's not what he was saying. He can pick any 2 moderately good players and they combined often outproduce an all-star. Lebron was just the most obvious example. You made a poor point, not him.

You go overboard in every thread. Like trying to claim there was little difference in Fultz and the 5th pick. Were that the case, he wouldn't be the consensus #1. Or nitpicking his flaws and downplaying his offensive genius. Hopefully you'll be on board in less than 2 weeks when he's a Celtic.

you know...you remind me...of those die hard Rondo fans ...where Rondo could do no wrong

except he played garbage defense and made everyone work harder.  Eventually he was traded and the team performed much better

Fultz skills on the offensive end at the collegiate level look great... but concerns about his overall defense is valid...if you choose to not acknowledge this....

well you will understand soon enough ... If drafted...when CBS won't be playing him much... unless his defense is better than James Youngs and on par with Roziers ....  he has quite the journey ahead

[Tr1boy]

The good/difficulty about the Celtics situation and having the #1 pick

Is that the team/coaching staff are spoiled....  CBS is already used to guys who plays defense like Smart, Crowder... even IT4 effort ....  anything less ... maybe hard to tolerate

It won't easy for any rookies to meet this expectation.... Brown was able to

Fultz struggled to play strong/consistent D at the collegiate level...what are the chances he will be able to put it all together by game 1 or game 10 etc?

At this point...I rather the team either do an advance rebuild or trade picks for vets.  If you draft Fultz... he should be given minutes to develop, iron out wrinkles

BUT this is not the mindset of this current team...it is not patient to develop young players 

[Ilikesports17]

The good/difficulty about the Celtics situation and having the #1 pick

Is that the team/coaching staff are spoiled....  CBS is already used to guys who plays defense like Smart, Crowder... even IT4 effort ....  anything less ... maybe hard to tolerate

It won't easy for any rookies to meet this expectation.... Brown was able to

Fultz struggled to play strong/consistent D at the collegiate level...what are the chances he will be able to put it all together by game 1 or game 10 etc?

At this point...I rather the team either do an advance rebuild or trade picks for vets.  If you draft Fultz... he should be given minutes to develop, iron out his wrinkles

BUT this is not the mindset of this current team...it is not patient to develop young players

I disagree strongly.

I believe that on most teams, Markelle Fultz's bad defensive habits would be allowed to grow. In Boston, he will be forced to focus on defense. Hes obviously got the tools, and I choose to believe that he has enough competitiveness that he will not like being on the bench and this will be a massive help to his career.

Many projections have him as nearing a  Lillard-Irving-Harden level as a scorer. If he could be close to their level scoring and add the decent defense he is so obviously capable of, he would be quite a player and well worth the #1 pick. c

[gouki88]

I doubt that Fultz by himself would outproduce Tatum and Hield

It doesn't work that way, though. DeMar Derozan and Serge Ibaka combine to outproduce Lebron, but you're not making that trade, are you?

like these extreme examples is not what I'm talking about

are you really going to use Lebron as an example??  Are you saying Fultz is at the same level/hemisphere ?

That's not what he was saying. He can pick any 2 moderately good players and they combined often outproduce an all-star. Lebron was just the most obvious example. You made a poor point, not him.

You go overboard in every thread. Like trying to claim there was little difference in Fultz and the 5th pick. Were that the case, he wouldn't be the consensus #1. Or nitpicking his flaws and downplaying his offensive genius. Hopefully you'll be on board in less than 2 weeks when he's a Celtic.

you know...you remind me...of those die hard Rondo fans ...where Rondo could do no wrong

except he played garbage defense and made everyone work harder.  Eventually he was traded and the team performed much better

Fultz skills on the offensive end at the collegiate level look great... but concerns about his overall defense is valid...if you choose to not acknowledge this....

well you will understand soon enough ... If drafted...when CBS won't be playing him much... unless his defense is better than James Youngs and on par with Roziers ....  he has quite the journey ahead

Just like some fans see Fultz as the second coming, on most Fultz threads you seem to be trying to remind everyone that, on his team that literally couldn't win without him, his defensive motor wasn't the best all the time.
Most people realise that Fultz wasn't one of your binkies, but he is still head and shoulders above the other prospects comfortably.

Considering the LeBron example might be too extreme for you, you'd still have to acknowledge that trading quality for quantity is the absolute wrong move at this stage.

We have a chance at the best guard prospect in 7 years - we'd be insane to trade him for considerably worse players.

[LilRip]

I doubt that Fultz by himself would outproduce Tatum and Hield

It doesn't work that way, though. DeMar Derozan and Serge Ibaka combine to outproduce Lebron, but you're not making that trade, are you?

like these extreme examples is not what I'm talking about

are you really going to use Lebron as an example??  Are you saying Fultz is at the same level/hemisphere ?

That's not what he was saying. He can pick any 2 moderately good players and they combined often outproduce an all-star. Lebron was just the most obvious example. You made a poor point, not him.

You go overboard in every thread. Like trying to claim there was little difference in Fultz and the 5th pick. Were that the case, he wouldn't be the consensus #1. Or nitpicking his flaws and downplaying his offensive genius. Hopefully you'll be on board in less than 2 weeks when he's a Celtic.

you know...you remind me...of those die hard Rondo fans ...where Rondo could do no wrong

except he played garbage defense and made everyone work harder.  Eventually he was traded and the team performed much better

Fultz skills on the offensive end at the collegiate level look great... but concerns about his overall defense is valid...if you choose to not acknowledge this....

well you will understand soon enough ... If drafted...when CBS won't be playing him much... unless his defense is better than James Youngs and on par with Roziers ....  he has quite the journey ahead

I will take this bet. I bet 10 TP's that by season end, Fultz will have more MPG than Rozier this year (provided we draft and keep Fultz, of course)

[Beat LA]

Fultz will be a bust.  Quote me!

What makes you say that?

[gouki88]

Fultz will be a bust.  Quote me!

What makes you say that?

A desire to make dramatic statements that aren't based on any fact, I assume.

[KG Living Legend]

I'd also like to point out that Just because Other people have done a free throw dunk before doesn't mean it isn't super impressive.

[chambers]

The good/difficulty about the Celtics situation and having the #1 pick

Is that the team/coaching staff are spoiled....  CBS is already used to guys who plays defense like Smart, Crowder... even IT4 effort ....  anything less ... maybe hard to tolerate

It won't easy for any rookies to meet this expectation.... Brown was able to

Fultz struggled to play strong/consistent D at the collegiate level...what are the chances he will be able to put it all together by game 1 or game 10 etc?

At this point...I rather the team either do an advance rebuild or trade picks for vets.  If you draft Fultz... he should be given minutes to develop, iron out wrinkles

BUT this is not the mindset of this current team...it is not patient to develop young players

Who do you want with the #1 pick?

[Granath]

Fultz will be a bust.  Quote me!

What makes you say that?

A desire to make dramatic statements that aren't based on any fact, I assume.

TP. Pretty much like most of his other dramatic statements that turned out to be absolutely incorrect. He's just hoping the adage "even a stopped watch is right twice a day" applies here.

[Somebody]

The good/difficulty about the Celtics situation and having the #1 pick

Is that the team/coaching staff are spoiled....  CBS is already used to guys who plays defense like Smart, Crowder... even IT4 effort ....  anything less ... maybe hard to tolerate

It won't easy for any rookies to meet this expectation.... Brown was able to

Fultz struggled to play strong/consistent D at the collegiate level...what are the chances he will be able to put it all together by game 1 or game 10 etc?

At this point...I rather the team either do an advance rebuild or trade picks for vets.  If you draft Fultz... he should be given minutes to develop, iron out wrinkles

BUT this is not the mindset of this current team...it is not patient to develop young players

Who do you want with the #1 pick?

He doesn't think there's a big gap between 1 and 5 (basically anyone but Fultz )

[mqtcelticsfan]

I doubt that Fultz by himself would outproduce Tatum and Hield

It doesn't work that way, though. DeMar Derozan and Serge Ibaka combine to outproduce Lebron, but you're not making that trade, are you?

like these extreme examples is not what I'm talking about

are you really going to use Lebron as an example??  Are you saying Fultz is at the same level/hemisphere ?

That's not what he was saying. He can pick any 2 moderately good players and they combined often outproduce an all-star. Lebron was just the most obvious example. You made a poor point, not him.

You go overboard in every thread. Like trying to claim there was little difference in Fultz and the 5th pick. Were that the case, he wouldn't be the consensus #1. Or nitpicking his flaws and downplaying his offensive genius. Hopefully you'll be on board in less than 2 weeks when he's a Celtic.

you know...you remind me...of those die hard Rondo fans ...where Rondo could do no wrong

except he played garbage defense and made everyone work harder.  Eventually he was traded and the team performed much better

Fultz skills on the offensive end at the collegiate level look great... but concerns about his overall defense is valid...if you choose to not acknowledge this....

well you will understand soon enough ... If drafted...when CBS won't be playing him much... unless his defense is better than James Youngs and on par with Roziers ....  he has quite the journey ahead

I love defense as much as the next guy, but I think you tend to underrate the importance of a true go-to scorer. You can find guys that can play defense all across the league, actual front line scorers are much harder to find and are essential for a title contender.