Author Topic: Zizic's trade value  (Read 8580 times)

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Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2017, 11:15:28 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Irrelevant. They are not trading a physical force down low that they have been lacking for years, just don't see it.

Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2017, 11:28:33 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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He is essentially Marcin Gortat.  He will help the C's and perhaps immediately, but I think the trade discussion is a fair one.

Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2017, 07:55:46 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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I think that it's likely Zizic has no future in Boston, at least as long as Ainge and Stevens are running the show - you cannot run offense through him at all, and that is what the Celtics want their bigs to be able to do.

Then... why was he chosen? And don't tell me the stash thing, because Ainge could have chosen Zubac, Korkmaz or traded the pick instead.

I presume he was picked because he was the BPA.

I don't know whether to believe the rumors that Ainge DID attempt to trade the pick, or not; in any case, Zizic is an asset. He has skills and he has upside, and he's a worker. He's a good investment, and not on the Celtics' dime.

His passing is dismal, let alone his playmaking. Unlikely that he makes the Celtics' rotation.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 08:47:56 PM by ThePaintedArea »

Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2017, 08:02:42 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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Its pretty funny. We finally get a legit big guy who can rebound like crazy and even has a nice shot and toughness, and some people want to get rid of him lol

WHAT?!?

Upto this point he's played against marginal competition and proven himself unable to dominate at that level.

Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2017, 08:37:09 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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In spite of what Brad might prefer to do, he knows he can't get away with small ball 100% of the time....

I think that that's clear. Boston's most often used lineups had two bigs.

The # of times we were pummeled on the boards isn't lost to him. He's also not stupid enough to think we're going to find a 7 footer who can rebound, play D, and yet have an offensive game good enough to play on the perimeter or run the offense (there are what, 3 or 4 of those guys in the entire league?).

Well, Griffin and Millsap tick most of the boxes.  But there are a lot more than four.

Boston has three bigs that you can run offense through. Horford and Olynyk are brilliant at it.

Some of you act like if we got Kevin McHale we'd have to trade him for a bag of groceries, because hey, CBS would have no idea what to do with him or how to incorporate him into his team.

I'm sure that Brad would love to coach anyone with talent.  But Ainge and Stevens have a way that they want to play - with a lot of ball- and man-movement.  Zizic is young - who knows what his ceiling is? And he works hard.  But he's got a long way to go in this area. I would not bet on him becoming a regular rotation player for Boston.

Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2017, 03:32:58 AM »

Offline iadera

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Žižić officialy decided to play the Summer league. He quit his National Team's camp for FIBA Euro Championship in September. Great news for Celtics, not for Croatia.

Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2017, 04:30:01 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Its pretty funny. We finally get a legit big guy who can rebound like crazy and even has a nice shot and toughness, and some people want to get rid of him lol

WHAT?!?

Upto this point he's played against marginal competition and proven himself unable to dominate at that level.

There is a website that has a predictive matrix of Euro guys. Someone on here knows it.

He is one of the most single season dominant big men at age 20 in history.

He might suck , but at this stage, there is every reason to be particularly optimistic.
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2017, 04:33:00 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Also suggest everyone here get croatian diacritics. Finna need em
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2017, 04:35:55 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Its pretty funny. We finally get a legit big guy who can rebound like crazy and even has a nice shot and toughness, and some people want to get rid of him lol

WHAT?!?

Upto this point he's played against marginal competition and proven himself unable to dominate at that level.

There is a website that has a predictive matrix of Euro guys. Someone on here knows it.

He is one of the most single season dominant big men at age 20 in history.

He might suck , but at this stage, there is every reason to be particularly optimistic.
You're saying this to the guy who thinks Jonas V and Enes Kanter are barely NBA players, for no other apparent reason than them being Euro big guys. No need to be reasonable  ;)
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2017, 10:38:29 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Good point.  People forget that DA was the guy who drafted Al Jefferson and Kendrick Perkins.  It's not like he doesn't know how to draft bigs.  As to where Zizic will fit in.  He's just going to have to come in, work hard, and earn minutes. 

He is still very young but has the size and physicality we need on the interior.  So let's give the kid a chance to prove himself first before we talk about shipping him out.  The obsession with trading for draft picks is unhealthy around here.  We have #1 this year and a top 5 next year, what more do you want?

Do you guys even think how hard it is going to be to integrate very young players into a veteran team that made it to the conference finals already and will probably be competing there again this time next year?  Short answer - drafting/playing 3-5x young'uns is not going to happen because that's how you lose so what's the point of wasting asset capital on too many young kids at once?

It's absurd how some people paint CBS into a box, as if he doesn't know how to coach big men.

In spite of what Brad might prefer to do, he knows he can't get away with small ball 100% of the time, he knows that he has to have a tough, big to do the dirty work. The # of times we were pummeled on the boards isn't lost to him. He's also not stupid enough to think we're going to find a 7 footer who can rebound, play D, and yet have an offensive game good enough to play on the perimeter or run the offense (there are what, 3 or 4 of those guys in the entire league?).

Some of you act like if we got Kevin McHale we'd have to trade him for a bag of groceries, because hey, CBS would have no idea what to do with him or how to incorporate him into his team.

Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2017, 11:55:26 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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In spite of what Brad might prefer to do, he knows he can't get away with small ball 100% of the time....

I think that that's clear. Boston's most often used lineups had two bigs.

The # of times we were pummeled on the boards isn't lost to him. He's also not stupid enough to think we're going to find a 7 footer who can rebound, play D, and yet have an offensive game good enough to play on the perimeter or run the offense (there are what, 3 or 4 of those guys in the entire league?).

Well, Griffin and Millsap tick most of the boxes.  But there are a lot more than four.

Boston has three bigs that you can run offense through. Horford and Olynyk are brilliant at it.

Some of you act like if we got Kevin McHale we'd have to trade him for a bag of groceries, because hey, CBS would have no idea what to do with him or how to incorporate him into his team.

I'm sure that Brad would love to coach anyone with talent.  But Ainge and Stevens have a way that they want to play - with a lot of ball- and man-movement.  Zizic is young - who knows what his ceiling is? And he works hard.  But he's got a long way to go in this area. I would not bet on him becoming a regular rotation player for Boston.
Milsap and Griffin might check a few boxes, but Griffin isn't much of a defender and Milsap is 32 years old and inconsistent, and both would cost a fortune.

Given where he was drafted, the perception of him around the league, and how well he played in the Euro leagues, I'd say there's a very good chance AZ will be in the rotation in the next few years.  It's not like he was drafted by another regime and foisted upon Danny and CBS. Danny drafted him, and since he was drafted, he's done nothing but improve his game.

Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2017, 11:59:50 PM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

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Its pretty funny. We finally get a legit big guy who can rebound like crazy and even has a nice shot and toughness, and some people want to get rid of him lol

WHAT?!?

Upto this point he's played against marginal competition and proven himself unable to dominate at that level.

There is a website that has a predictive matrix of Euro guys. Someone on here knows it.

He is one of the most single season dominant big men at age 20 in history.

He might suck , but at this stage, there is every reason to be particularly optimistic.

I believe that the way euro league plays, i.e. shares the ball and allocates minutes, dominant there is different than in the NBA. Paul Gasol has had some dominant NBA seasons in the past, but Zizic was statistically just as good but at a younger age. Zizic's numbers weren't just great they were historic.  He finished behind Donic in the rising star voting and he only played half a season at best.  If you search a bit you can find articles that compare Zizic to others players that have gone from Euro league to the NBA, and he is at the top or near the top of every list.   I saw one that had him in the top 10 for PER all time @ 18 and #2 @ 19, and his PER @ 20 wasn't on the list butt it was higjer than it was at 19, but still not #1. So he was #2, #3, and something else in the lower part of the top 10 all time for PER.  That's pretty dominant.

Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2017, 01:47:05 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Its pretty funny. We finally get a legit big guy who can rebound like crazy and even has a nice shot and toughness, and some people want to get rid of him lol

WHAT?!?

Upto this point he's played against marginal competition and proven himself unable to dominate at that level.

There is a website that has a predictive matrix of Euro guys. Someone on here knows it.

He is one of the most single season dominant big men at age 20 in history.

He might suck , but at this stage, there is every reason to be particularly optimistic.

I believe that the way euro league plays, i.e. shares the ball and allocates minutes, dominant there is different than in the NBA. Paul Gasol has had some dominant NBA seasons in the past, but Zizic was statistically just as good but at a younger age. Zizic's numbers weren't just great they were historic.  He finished behind Donic in the rising star voting and he only played half a season at best.  If you search a bit you can find articles that compare Zizic to others players that have gone from Euro league to the NBA, and he is at the top or near the top of every list.   I saw one that had him in the top 10 for PER all time @ 18 and #2 @ 19, and his PER @ 20 wasn't on the list butt it was higjer than it was at 19, but still not #1. So he was #2, #3, and something else in the lower part of the top 10 all time for PER.  That's pretty dominant.
Also Doncic got that award because he was super young and was playing on the best non nba team...Zizic led a TURKISH TEAM TO A WIN OVER REAL MADRID WITH DONCIC
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Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2017, 01:48:32 AM »

Offline liam

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I hope Zizic can be as good as this guy: 

"The Top 25 European players ever
16. Dino Radja. NBA stats: 16.7 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 17.4 PER in four seasons. The talented Croatian center was a bright spot in very tough years for the Boston Celtics in the mid-90s. Came close to averaging 20 and 10 in 1995-96 - a feat no Euro player has yet accomplished."

Re: Zizic's trade value
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2017, 01:49:33 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I hope Zizic can be as good as this guy: 

"The Top 25 European players ever
16. Dino Radja. NBA stats: 16.7 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 17.4 PER in four seasons. The talented Croatian center was a bright spot in very tough years for the Boston Celtics in the mid-90s. Came close to averaging 20 and 10 in 1995-96 - a feat no Euro player has yet accomplished."
Me too...imo he'll at least be a Steven Adams type of center though
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA