Author Topic: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs  (Read 18247 times)

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Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2017, 04:19:56 PM »

Offline Chris22

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The refs allow Lebron to travel and commit offensive fouls every time he makes a move.
Lebron once went FIVE GAMES without being called for a foul.
If the game was refed fairly, we might have a chance.
Yes, and Isaiah Thomas palms the ball on every possession. Can we move past this nonsense now?

It's not nonsense.
The mollycoddling of Lebron by the league is a disgrace. Click on the video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGsl36MnOqY

Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2017, 04:27:01 PM »

Offline the TRUTH

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TP to the OP - great analysis. I've included part of a post I wrote on this topic in another thread (with some additions for this thread). In short, I do think we have some advantages here, and expect most - if not all - of the games to be close because of the talent and character of the Celtics. But I still think Cleveland takes it in 5 or 6. I really hope I'm wrong and we find a way to win this series - that'd be one of the most satisfying wins for me in my entire life as a fan.

On the bright side, I think we have a moderate to potentially significant advantage (depending on who's on the court) when it comes to overall athleticism in this series. LeBron is obviously the best athlete in the league, but we're much deeper when it comes to that particular trait. With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see us pressure and/or trap more than we usually do both on the perimeter and in the backcourt. I also think we'll try to push the tempo every chance we get to wear Cleveland down. Guys like Rozier and Brown need to come up big for us in this regard.

Doc enabled us to somewhat contain James for the most part by forcing him to shoot long two's. Can we do the same in this series?

My biggest concern is on the boards. That's a weakness of ours, and Thompson and Love (and LeBron) have the ability to destroy us there. I think we have the ability to force Cleveland into misses, but second chance points can easily be the difference in the series, and that Love/Thompson duo worries me. We need to rebound better than ever before in order to have a chance, and it'll have to be a total team effort.

Another concern I have is the potential of LeBron guarding IT, whether for the entire game or just for short stretches. Sure, it sounds unconventional, but LeBron has done things like that in the past, and Cleveland could then stick its worst defender on Crowder. LeBron's length could be a major problem for IT, and IT will literally never get the benefit of the doubt from the refs. LeBron may be one of the few players in the league that can stop IT on his own. Additionally, our screens against LeBron will have to be perfectly legal every time, as we won't get any leeway there either.

In the postgame show after Game 7, Kenny Smith made a good point - and a lot of us have been saying the same thing. The Celtics have more talent and depth defensively on the perimeter than just about any team in the league. LeBron and Irving will still get theirs, but it shouldn't be nearly as easy as it normally is for those two.

Luck will definitely play a role in this series. Cleveland is talented enough offensively that you have to give them something on most possessions. If guys like Smith, Jefferson, Shumpert, Frye and Williams are on fire from outside, that makes it that much tougher to win. Off the top of my head, Frye shot like 75% on 3's in the ECF last year. Who knows if Toronto actually wins that series - or at least makes it much more interesting - if Frye didn't shoot like that like? And does LeBron struggle from the free throw line or catch fire? Is LeBron hitting his three's? If we get relatively luck in those aspects, that would really help our chances.

The officiating is obviously a major issue as well whenever you play against LeBron's team. I wouldn't be shocked to see every game resemble the fourth quarter of Game 7 of the 2010 Finals. Can we get a somewhat fairly officiated game three or four times? I don't think we're good enough yet to beat the Cavs and the refs as we did in '08 and '10.

Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2017, 04:29:40 PM »

Offline the TRUTH

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The refs allow Lebron to travel and commit offensive fouls every time he makes a move.
Lebron once went FIVE GAMES without being called for a foul.
If the game was refed fairly, we might have a chance.
Yes, and Isaiah Thomas palms the ball on every possession. Can we move past this nonsense now?

It's not nonsense.
The mollycoddling of Lebron by the league is a disgrace. Click on the video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGsl36MnOqY

I agree. And what kills me is that it's not just him - it's his entire team, and it's been that way for his entire career wherever he's been. He's a phenomenal player in his own right, but having the officiating on his team's side every single game certainly hasn't hurt his career.

Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2017, 04:52:31 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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realistic mostly .  Given the blunt facts the Cavs have the hands down best team between the two

id love not to see them NOT get swept,  something the other two before can't say,  and this seems like a fair goal for this team to win a game. Boston is stubborn and it will be hard to swept them.

To win he series with Cavs , would be one of the biggest upsets in NBA history.

Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2017, 04:55:37 PM »

Offline Dannys Chipotle Guy

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The refs allow Lebron to travel and commit offensive fouls every time he makes a move.
Lebron once went FIVE GAMES without being called for a foul.
If the game was refed fairly, we might have a chance.
Yes, and Isaiah Thomas palms the ball on every possession. Can we move past this nonsense now?

It's not nonsense.
The mollycoddling of Lebron by the league is a disgrace. Click on the video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGsl36MnOqY

I agree. And what kills me is that it's not just him - it's his entire team, and it's been that way for his entire career wherever he's been. He's a phenomenal player in his own right, but having the officiating on his team's side every single game certainly hasn't hurt his career.
according to the NBA 2 minute reports, Lebron is actually treated unfairly by officials.

The let him push off and travel and carry, but they also let other teams clobber him.

Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2017, 05:02:23 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Having home court advantage helps.  I think it gives the Celts a decent chance of pushing this to 6 games.

Realistically, LeBron will win at least one of the first two games and then the Celts will have a really hard time winning one in Cleveland.

After that, the Celts will need to win a home game 5 in order to force a 6th game on the road.


Overall, this Celts team doesn't seem as good as that 60 win Hawks team from a couple years ago.  That team had home court advantage and still got swept.  They were facing a Cavs opponent that was missing Kevin Love.  On the other hand, that Cavs team had much better defensive role players.
That Hawks team was a shell of itself by the time it reached the Cavs.

Korver only played 2 games, Carroll battled injury the whole time and Im pretty sure Horford was battling something as well.

Edit: just looked it up, Sefolosha was out, Horford had dislocated his pinkie earlier in the playoffs and wasnt playing well at all, Millsap had injured his shoulder in april and had really struggled offensively.

The team was hobbled. Cleveland was obviously without Love, but while the 60 win Hawks might be better than these Celtics, the version of the Hawks that limped into the ECF 3 years ago, was not as good as our Boston Celtics(obviously thats just my opinion).

Those are fair points.

In any case, if I were betting, I would put my money on Cavs in 5.

I think we could see Celts win Game 1 because of the Cavs' rust, then the Cavs win out the rest of the way.

It wouldn't shock me if the Celts win one of the first two and then win Game 5 to force the Cavs to win it on their home floor in Game 6. I would be very proud of the Celts if they manage that.
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Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2017, 05:03:39 PM »

Offline Dannys Chipotle Guy

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Having home court advantage helps.  I think it gives the Celts a decent chance of pushing this to 6 games.

Realistically, LeBron will win at least one of the first two games and then the Celts will have a really hard time winning one in Cleveland.

After that, the Celts will need to win a home game 5 in order to force a 6th game on the road.


Overall, this Celts team doesn't seem as good as that 60 win Hawks team from a couple years ago.  That team had home court advantage and still got swept.  They were facing a Cavs opponent that was missing Kevin Love.  On the other hand, that Cavs team had much better defensive role players.
That Hawks team was a shell of itself by the time it reached the Cavs.

Korver only played 2 games, Carroll battled injury the whole time and Im pretty sure Horford was battling something as well.

Edit: just looked it up, Sefolosha was out, Horford had dislocated his pinkie earlier in the playoffs and wasnt playing well at all, Millsap had injured his shoulder in april and had really struggled offensively.

The team was hobbled. Cleveland was obviously without Love, but while the 60 win Hawks might be better than these Celtics, the version of the Hawks that limped into the ECF 3 years ago, was not as good as our Boston Celtics(obviously thats just my opinion).

Those are fair points.

In any case, if I were betting, I would put my money on Cavs in 5.

I think we could see Celts win Game 1 because of the Cavs' rust, then the Cavs win out the rest of the way.

It wouldn't shock me if the Celts win one of the first two and then win Game 5 to force the Cavs to win it on their home floor in Game 6. I would be very proud of the Celts if they manage that.
I see Cavs in 6.

we take one of the first two, then either game 4 or 5.

Really dont see us winning in Cleveland and I really dont see us winning consecutive games against them either.

Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2017, 05:46:22 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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realistic mostly .  Given the blunt facts the Cavs have the hands down best team between the two

id love not to see them NOT get swept,  something the other two before can't say,  and this seems like a fair goal for this team to win a game. Boston is stubborn and it will be hard to swept them.

To win he series with Cavs , would be one of the biggest upsets in NBA history.

Like the '69Cs beating the Fakers?

Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2017, 05:50:44 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Op stop stressing... Its gravy moving fwd

If celts can at least win one at home and one away...perfect


Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2017, 05:51:05 PM »

Offline Ed Hollison

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It will probably be Cavs in 6. But with that said, I agree with the OP that we shouldn't underestimate the Celtics' chances in this series. The Cavaliers won 51 games this year, with Lebron leading the league in minutes per game. They were a straight up bad defensive team this year. Now, Lebron James is still Lebron James -- he always finds that extra juice to dominate in the playoffs -- but the Celtics were a [dang] good team this year in their own right.

The things that concern me: IT not being fully healthy and explosive, Love and Thompson on the glass, and Lebron going full on supernova.

The things that make me confident (mostly echoing the OP): the "hideability" of IT on defense against JR Smith and Shumpert, the stable of athletic wings to throw at Lebron (Crowder, Brown, Green and even Smart), and the ability to exploit their bigs (Thompson and Love) in the pick and roll on the perimeter with Olynyk and Horford.
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Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2017, 05:57:25 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Great OP.

We also have a secret weapon, an X factor: Decentralization. In a seven game series, teams get to key in on primary scorers and make adjustments and close holes. But we got several players who, if you successfully squeeze IT, out pops an opportunity for them to have a big game or at least lead a big game-changing run. We saw Olynyk last night, we've seen Gerald break out, we saw Avery string together multiple big games, and there's still big game potential in Marcus and Jaylen, and Crowder hasn't even stepped up yet really. Any one of those guys could surprise the Cavs in any of the next 4-7 games and swing the result. Our depth was supposed to be a regular season strength, inadequate for the playoffs, but here we are in the Conference Finals and several games have been won via the depth.
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Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2017, 06:09:37 PM »

Offline the TRUTH

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The refs allow Lebron to travel and commit offensive fouls every time he makes a move.
Lebron once went FIVE GAMES without being called for a foul.
If the game was refed fairly, we might have a chance.
Yes, and Isaiah Thomas palms the ball on every possession. Can we move past this nonsense now?

It's not nonsense.
The mollycoddling of Lebron by the league is a disgrace. Click on the video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGsl36MnOqY

I agree. And what kills me is that it's not just him - it's his entire team, and it's been that way for his entire career wherever he's been. He's a phenomenal player in his own right, but having the officiating on his team's side every single game certainly hasn't hurt his career.
according to the NBA 2 minute reports, Lebron is actually treated unfairly by officials.

The let him push off and travel and carry, but they also let other teams clobber him.

First of all, a 2 minute report completely ignores the previous 46 minutes, so I'm not sure what that tells us. And not to get too conspiracy-theoryish here, but I don't trust anything the league says with regards to officiating. The league has been trying to promote LeBron as the next MJ since the day he was drafted, and his entire team has benefited from that for his entire career. They have every incentive to continue to protect him. We've played big playoff series against teams led by other stars than LeBron, and the officiating is always the most biased against us when we face LeBron's team. Kobe was every bit the player LeBron is, and while the fourth quarter of Game 7 in 2010 was atrocious, it's not like the entire series in '08 or '10 was suspicious.

Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2017, 06:53:21 PM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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Boston can't defend James.  I like Crowder and all, but he will be completely useless against James and he is the best option.  If James doesn't average a 30 point triple double, I will consider it a win.  And yeah Boston can try to hide IT on Smith, but Smith is saavy enough to know how to work that advantage, as our the Cavs.  I would expect all kinds of pick and rolls to force Thomas to switch off Smith and onto James or Irving. 

I think Boston wins game 2 and that is it.  Lebron James is just too good for this team and that really is the bottomline (Bradley is better than Smith but outside of that every other position including the bench favors Cleveland). 

good assesment. we could have beaten lebrosn miami heat in 2012. this is a different ballgame entirely.
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2017, 06:58:45 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Can't blame anyone for being pessimistic, given how the Cavs waltzed into the Garden the last time these two played in the regular season and pretty much wiped the floor with the Celtics ... while in autopilot mode. The proof (that you can ball with the big boys) is in the pudding.

Washington wiped the floor with the Cs last series...how did that work out?

Re: People are too pessimistic regarding our chances against the Cavs
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2017, 07:00:08 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Hell, even the OP is hedging.  You say people are being too pessimistic about beating the Cavs, then the best you can muster is "all of this isn't saying that I think the Celtics will necessarily win the series". 

There is almost no chance we beat the Cavs.  That's not pessimistic, that's realistic.  Are people being too pessimistic that we can win a game or maybe even two?  That's seems to be the argument you are making, not that we actually have a real chance of beating them.

Not realism at all.  Look at the Vegas odds - far from "almost no chance."