Ibaka traded to Toronto

[wdleehi]

This signals that Danny is all about "trade / sign a superstar or stand pat and develop the youth."

Don't forget the whining that Ainge values his pieces to much from other front offices that want those pieces. 

[MBunge]

Jared Weiss ‏@JaredWeissNBA

Celtics were not willing to include Rozier in a potential Ibaka trade per multiple sources.

I hate quotes like this.   Doesn't tell what the other pieces being offered was.

To match Ibaka's salary, it would have had to have been Rozier/Amir or Rozier/Zeller/Young, either of which I'd have been fine with including some 2nd rounders to sweeten the deal.

If Rozier was really the stumbling block, I think Ainge deserves some heat.  But if it was really about him refusing to throw in a first rounder, that was the right call.  We shouldn't give those up for a 1/3 of the season rental of a player we would hope NOT to resign in the off season because we want to get someone better.

Mike

I disagree. I think Rozier is a valuable piece and only worth giving up in a trade if Ainge was getting back a long term piece. If Ibaka is just a rental, Rozier is too high a price to pay. If Ainge was willing to pay Ibaka and keep him long term, Rozier is a fine price pay to pay.

I really like Rozier. I expect him to be a quality starting PG in this league down the road. He is a valuable young player. I think Ainge is correct to keep him off the table for anything less than a long term piece.

I like Rozier too but he's clearly behind IT and Smart and doesn't look like he's guaranteed to ever surpass them, on a roster than already has Demetrius Jackson and a 1st round pick this year that's very likely to be another guard.  In other words, Rozier is getting traded sooner rather than later and I don't think it's unfair to consider Ibaka to be about the best we could possible get for him.

Rozier and filler for Ibaka?  I think the potential short-term benefit is relatively persuasive.
Rozier and a #1 for Ibaka?  No way.

Mike

[bopna]

Toronto now clearly ahead of Boston and the #2 team in the East.

Not til they get past Washington then Boston..
Ibaka makes em better but Ross gave the Cs fits more than Ibaka so its really pretty much moot at this point.

There is no way to make an assessment of this trade til games are actually played out . For me Ibaka just makes em better because of Serge's reputation but there is a reason why we play the games right.

[vgulab]

Orlando's GM  still not fired? So many young players and high draft picks in the last 4-5 years and he didn't even came close to playoff, plus he traded maybe the only guy who could have been an allstar, Oladipo who i believe will have better career than Grodon.

For Toronto it's pretty solid move but at the end it doesn't put the Raptors near to Cavs. Maybe makes them better than us but not near Cavs.

For us, i don't mind this "missed" opportunity. Yes DA could have easily match the Raptors offer, and yes Ibaka fits the BS system but what we would have gained? Nothing much. Ibaka would have not made the C's a team that can beat Lebron, the team would not resign Ibaka to 100m/4y deal. So what is the point? I don't have a problem with DA not making this trade at all.

[Monkhouse]

Oh boy...that contract is going to look BAD...wish them well with that!

I mean... we do still have Horford at a max slot, no?

I take Horford's contract now over Ibaka's... He's at least going to get 20-25 million.

They're number are pretty similar. Ibaka's the better 3pt shooter, while Al's the superior passer. Even if you believe the talk of Ibaka being older than his reported age, Ibaka @ $20m-$25m versus Al @ $26m-$30m are pretty similar values.

Similar numbers, but I believe Horford's leadership and intangibles should be taken into account.

Al Horford with the exception of J-Smoove and Millsap was one of the big factors in why Hawks went to the playoffs pretty much every year he was there.

[Evantime34]

Oh boy...that contract is going to look BAD...wish them well with that!

I mean... we do still have Horford at a max slot, no?

I take Horford's contract now over Ibaka's... He's at least going to get 20-25 million.

They're number are pretty similar. Ibaka's the better 3pt shooter, while Al's the superior passer. Even if you believe the talk of Ibaka being older than his reported age, Ibaka @ $20m-$25m versus Al @ $26m-$30m are pretty similar values.

Similar numbers, but I believe Horford's leadership and intangibles should be taken into account.

Al Horford with the exception of J-Smoove and Millsap was one of the big factors in why Hawks went to the playoffs pretty much every year he was there.

Horford is also a great screen setter and deadly in the pick and roll. Ibaka is more of a spot up off the ball guy on offense. Horford is an integral part of running our offense, where Ibaka is more of an ancillary offensive piece.

[Monkhouse]

Oh boy...that contract is going to look BAD...wish them well with that!

I mean... we do still have Horford at a max slot, no?

I take Horford's contract now over Ibaka's... He's at least going to get 20-25 million.

They're number are pretty similar. Ibaka's the better 3pt shooter, while Al's the superior passer. Even if you believe the talk of Ibaka being older than his reported age, Ibaka @ $20m-$25m versus Al @ $26m-$30m are pretty similar values.

Similar numbers, but I believe Horford's leadership and intangibles should be taken into account.

Al Horford with the exception of J-Smoove and Millsap was one of the big factors in why Hawks went to the playoffs pretty much every year he was there.

Horford is also a great screen setter and deadly in the pick and roll. Ibaka is more of a spot up off the ball guy on offense. Horford is an integral part of running our offense, where Ibaka is more of an ancillary offensive piece.

I also forgot to mention that.

Horford as you said is deadly in the pick and roll. And his versatility at being able to run the fast break, and making smart plays definitely makes me take the nod over Ibaka.

Ibaka is a great player to have in today's NBA, but he hasn't really improved that much offensively.

[saltlover]

Toronto now clearly ahead of Boston and the #2 team in the East.

This is simply not true.  Ibaka is a good acquisition for Toronto, no doubt.  But Ibaka isn't the type of acquisition that will give Toronto any additional edge over Boston.  On offense, he's primarily a jump shooter.  He's not going to beat defenders off the dribble.  He's not an offensive rebounder.  Any Celtic defender who regularly plays the 4 will be able to guard him just fine, because his game doesn't take advantage of their weaknesses.

Defensively, he's a solid defender, but we don't rely on all that much scoring from our PF in most lineups.  Accordingly, his advantage of that end of the court will be mitigated by the fact our offense will naturally avoid him most of the time.

I think he does help Toronto have a better chance to get past Cleveland, but that requires they get to Cleveland to begin with.  They're not catching us in the standings unless we play worse than our full-season winning percentage, much less how we've played the last 8 weeks.  To say they're suddenly the #2 team in the East is a major overreaction.

[Darío SpanishFan]

Toronto now clearly ahead of Boston and the #2 team in the East.

I don't care about who will be beaten by Cleveland in the ECF. I just care about banners.

Hopefully, it seems Danny Ainge feels the same.

[CelticGuardian]

Ibaka is a piece for the playoffs, competed with the best of them out in the Western conference. I don't think Toronto and Cavs are worrying about seeding too much, we really haven't shown that we are the better team whenever we face those guys... road, home... doesn't matter, there's clearly a gap that needs to be addressed.

I can tell you with a straight face that this C's core has yet to be make any real noise in the playoffs and could fold a lot easier than we expect even when they won a couple games against the Hawks, there were shaky performances throughout the roster(7 point first quarter). Don't think higher seed means automatic Finals appearance, you still need players to show up.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Ibaka is going to be one of the guys again, instead of being forced to be the guy, that should be great for him and Toronto. That's a very nice move for them IMO.

[Moranis]

Toronto now clearly ahead of Boston and the #2 team in the East.

Clearly not....  They traded their sixth man and don't really have alot of depth.

Joseph is probably their 6th man, though Powell has been starting for DeRozan so maybe he is really the 6th man.  Either way, with Joseph and Powell they are fine on wings on the bench (at least from a playoff standpoint).

Ross was 7th in mpg.

Yes behind Joseph

[Big333223]

Jared Weiss ‏@JaredWeissNBA

Celtics were not willing to include Rozier in a potential Ibaka trade per multiple sources.

Yeah, I would not have done that either...could be used for a bigger fish.

I wouldn't let Rozier be a sticking point. I suspect Danny just wasn't interested in a rental and/or paying Ibaka $25 million+ per season.

Agreed I'm thinking they didn't want to resign him so why give up anything of value just for a single season push when it doesn't put you over Cavs

This. Ibaka is going to be looking for a max next summer and someone is going to give it to him, which means around $30 mil per year. I wouldn't want the C's paying him that and if they're not going to, why give up assets for 3 months of a player that might not put them over the top anyway?

[kraidstar]

IMO we need two additional stars to be contenders.

Ibaka might have qualified as one, but we'd need to also add a better star. Problem is, if we make a trade for him with an expiring like Amir, we need to resign Ibaka in fee agency at a huge deal that not only eliminates our ~$30M cap space in free agency, but likely puts us over the cap.

So that takes us out of free agency, and we're overpaying Ibaka.

But if we let those contracts expire naturally, we can sign a near-max guy in FA and THEN use our other contracts (Bradley Crowder etc) to land the big fish via trade, even if we're near or over the cap.

Free agency needs to come first, and I don't know that Ibaka is the right target there. We can always land a player in a trade ta any time, but once that cap space is gone, free agency becomes impossible.

[Moranis]

Jared Weiss ‏@JaredWeissNBA

Celtics were not willing to include Rozier in a potential Ibaka trade per multiple sources.

Yeah, I would not have done that either...could be used for a bigger fish.

I wouldn't let Rozier be a sticking point. I suspect Danny just wasn't interested in a rental and/or paying Ibaka $25 million+ per season.

Agreed I'm thinking they didn't want to resign him so why give up anything of value just for a single season push when it doesn't put you over Cavs

This. Ibaka is going to be looking for a max next summer and someone is going to give it to him, which means around $30 mil per year. I wouldn't want the C's paying him that and if they're not going to, why give up assets for 3 months of a player that might not put them over the top anyway?

who is going to give Ibaka 30 million?