Too quick to claim teams are tanking

[moiso]

People here are far too quick to claim other teams are tanking.  Look at the Miami Heat and the Dallas Mavericks as examples.  Twenty, thirty, and forty games into the season and the majority of posters here seemed to think that these teams are trying to lose on purpose and they are going to have a virtual giveaway of some good players.  I always found this ridiculous with the two teams I mentioned and now their recent records back up my thoughts.  We aren't getting good players from these two teams for peanuts because these teams have always been trying to win.  People are far too quick to claim that the teams that haven't been winning enough games are tanking, and it's annoying.  Some teams just don't win as many games as they expect.  Thoughts?

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I can't agree on Mia b/c Riley said he was tanking, the players and Spo probably have him mad as hell atm lol. Dallas/Cuban has always maintained they wouldn't tank so you're not really saying anything there. Dal needed Dirk to heal up.

[Ogaju]

People here are far too quick to claim other teams are tanking.  Look at the Miami Heat and the Dallas Mavericks as examples.  Twenty, thirty, and forty games into the season and the majority of posters here seemed to think that these teams are trying to lose on purpose and they are going to have a virtual giveaway of some good players.  I always found this ridiculous with the two teams I mentioned and now their recent records back up my thoughts.  We aren't getting good players from these two teams for peanuts because these teams have always been trying to win.  People are far too quick to claim that the teams that haven't been winning enough games are tanking, and it's annoying.  Some teams just don't win as many games as they expect.  Thoughts?

My position is 'If you aren't winning you are tanking'

[moiso]

People here are far too quick to claim other teams are tanking.  Look at the Miami Heat and the Dallas Mavericks as examples.  Twenty, thirty, and forty games into the season and the majority of posters here seemed to think that these teams are trying to lose on purpose and they are going to have a virtual giveaway of some good players.  I always found this ridiculous with the two teams I mentioned and now their recent records back up my thoughts.  We aren't getting good players from these two teams for peanuts because these teams have always been trying to win.  People are far too quick to claim that the teams that haven't been winning enough games are tanking, and it's annoying.  Some teams just don't win as many games as they expect.  Thoughts?

My position is 'If you aren't winning you are tanking'

So all bad teams are trying to lose.  I don't agree with this at all.

[greece66]

Dalls wasn't tanking. Most ppl here agreed on that even when Dallas was doing badly.

Miami is a different story. ImShakHeIsShaq makes an interesting hypothesis. Personally, I'm too confused, all I can say for now is that they sure ain't tanking now.

In any case, tanking is real. There are good enough incentives for it to happen. This however, does not mean that the GM of a tanking team goes to the players before the game and tells them, Guys, we really have to lose tonight.

There are subtler ways of doing it.

[Surferdad]

Yes, too quick.  I don't believe tanking is as common as made out on this board.

Miami won something like 7 in a row recently.

[Somebody]

Yes, too quick.  I don't believe tanking is as common as made out on this board.

Miami won something like 7 in a row recently.

They have the longest win streak of the season at 13 wins

[moiso]

Dalls wasn't tanking. Most ppl here agreed on that even when Dallas was doing badly.

Miami is a different story. ImShakHeIsShaq makes an interesting hypothesis. Personally, I'm too confused, all I can say for now is that they sure ain't tanking now.

In any case, tanking is real. There are good enough incentives for it to happen. This however, does not mean that the GM of a tanking team goes to the players before the game and tells them, Guys, we really have to lose tonight.

There are subtler ways of doing it.

Most people said Dallas was gonna roll over and give away Bogut as recently as a week or two ago.

[celticsclay]

Dalls wasn't tanking. Most ppl here agreed on that even when Dallas was doing badly.

Miami is a different story. ImShakHeIsShaq makes an interesting hypothesis. Personally, I'm too confused, all I can say for now is that they sure ain't tanking now.

In any case, tanking is real. There are good enough incentives for it to happen. This however, does not mean that the GM of a tanking team goes to the players before the game and tells them, Guys, we really have to lose tonight.

There are subtler ways of doing it.

Most people said Dallas was gonna roll over and give away Bogut as recently as a week or two ago.

whether they are winning or losing doesn't really have that much to do with this. He has not even been playing recently for them and is on an expiring contract. They can move him whether they are losing or not.

I think you can make a stronger argument for Miami being an interesting argument for the point you are trying to make, but there isn't really anything of note going on with Dallas and it is just confusing the point by trying to include them. 

[Dannys Chipotle Guy]

Players never tank. Ever.

I think a lot of times, a front office plans on tanking, but it doesnt work because the players use it as a rallying cry. A sign of disrespect. Dallas was never tanking (although they probably should have). I think Miami tanked. I think LA successfully is tanking. I think Philly might be executing a bit of a stealth tank with this recent Embiid injury.

You could argue we tried to tank in '14-'15. There is a quote from Jae Crowder in the beginning of our charge towards the playoffs where after a big win where he hit some 4th quarter 3s he said something to the effect of "sorry Danny Ainge, but I came here to win".

You can sit guys, and trade vets for young players and even tell your coaching staffs to prioritize prospects over vets, but the guys on the court will always go hard and that is impossible to completely control unless you absolutely gut your roster like Philly has.

[Boris Badenov]

If BKN had its own picks, everyone would be going bananas about their tank. It's a nice counterpoint to the argument about how the lottery distorts incentives in any substantive manner.

My view is that the influence of tanking on player effort is zero (as noted above). But further, that its influence on roster composition is much less than some people presume. The bottom line is that good players are hard to get, and if you have bad players it takes time, effort and luck to replace them with better players. So a lot of what gets labeled "tanking" is bad basketball by teams who'd like to be better, but can't be.

I mean, look at Philly. They pretty clearly have moved from the "tank" phase to the "develop and win" phase, and they still pretty much suck. Their stable of coveted lottery draftees has yielded exactly zero above-replacement players as of right now. Embiid was their best hope and he's been good...for 31 out of 210 games so far. Noel and Okafor are worth pennies on the dollar relative to their draft position. Simmons hasn't played a game. Etc.

Even Minny has gotten good production on paper out of their lottery picks, and all it's done is push them into the 5-7 range. Are they tanking? Wouldn't they rather be better than they are right now?

[Ogaju]

People here are far too quick to claim other teams are tanking.  Look at the Miami Heat and the Dallas Mavericks as examples.  Twenty, thirty, and forty games into the season and the majority of posters here seemed to think that these teams are trying to lose on purpose and they are going to have a virtual giveaway of some good players.  I always found this ridiculous with the two teams I mentioned and now their recent records back up my thoughts.  We aren't getting good players from these two teams for peanuts because these teams have always been trying to win.  People are far too quick to claim that the teams that haven't been winning enough games are tanking, and it's annoying.  Some teams just don't win as many games as they expect.  Thoughts?

My position is 'If you aren't winning you are tanking'

So all bad teams are trying to lose.  I don't agree with this at all.

who said anything about trying to lose? Losing is tanking, whether you are trying or not. If you are on a 14 game losing streak, you are TANKING. Who really cares if it is deliberate or not.

[hodgy03038]

From the Urban Dictionary:


Tanking is the act of giving up a match or "throwing it away", losing intentionally or not competing.

[Ogaju]

you really think the Nets are competing right now?

the only thing the Nets are competing for is the worst record in the history of the NBA. Now, whether they are trying or not, the fact is they are in the TANK.

Therefore, they are tanking. Some words have multiple meanings.

A losing team is in the tank, therefore tanking. Tanking is losing, it was just lately that it has been adopted for teams that lose deliberately.

[hodgy03038]

you really think the Nets are competing right now?

the only thing the Nets are competing for is the worst record in the history of the NBA.

I don't know who you are talking to but I think they are doing the best they can with what they have. They have "NO REASON" not to try to win. They just don't have the talent. Maybe if hamstring Lin ever plays again they may win a few games.