Kyler on Boston/Ibaka rumors

[MBunge]

I would offer up AB and look for a 3rd team to accommodate the magic. Teams that are in the playoff hunt like Memphis or Sac may be interested in trading a young player and a pick for AB. Maybe the Magic even just take the swap.

I think it is going to be important for the Cs to trade for a starting caliber big man like Ibaka at the deadline. If they wait to sign a player in the offseason and do not sign a star they may be forced to settle on a player like Ibaka as a FA without being able to retain KO. Trading now allows the team to sign both.

The Magic take AB for Ibaka in a heartbeat.  They say yes before Ainge can reconsider.

Accordingly, I'm not a fan.

How come?
Ultimately we'll have to let AB or IT walk right?
Are you okay with letting AB walk away to a huge deal after next year?

Just interested to know why you'd rather keep AB this/next season.
Don't like Ibaka enough or use AB in a different trade?

The prevailing notion is that we can't afford to keep AB/IT/Smart when they all hit free agency at the same time.

We could keep them all but we'd be in luxury tax land and hoping for some ring-chasing vets willing to play at deep discounts.

Mike

[saltlover]

I would offer up AB and look for a 3rd team to accommodate the magic. Teams that are in the playoff hunt like Memphis or Sac may be interested in trading a young player and a pick for AB. Maybe the Magic even just take the swap.

I think it is going to be important for the Cs to trade for a starting caliber big man like Ibaka at the deadline. If they wait to sign a player in the offseason and do not sign a star they may be forced to settle on a player like Ibaka as a FA without being able to retain KO. Trading now allows the team to sign both.

The Magic take AB for Ibaka in a heartbeat.  They say yes before Ainge can reconsider.

Accordingly, I'm not a fan.

How come?
Ultimately we'll have to let AB or IT walk right?
Are you okay with letting AB walk away to a huge deal after next year?

Just interested to know why you'd rather keep AB this/next season.
Don't like Ibaka enough or use AB in a different trade?

The prevailing notion is that we can't afford to keep AB/IT/Smart when they all hit free agency at the same time.

We could keep them all but we'd be in luxury tax land and hoping for some ring-chasing vets willing to play at deep discounts.

Mike

That's why my very next sentence is "I mostly agree."  We could be pretty far into luxury tax land too.

[bogg]

Also, I don't sense Toronto as desperate.  Ujiri is a very good GM.

Ujiri gets a little too much credit for winning games with Bryan Colangelo's players. People forget he was in the middle of a full tear-down before James Dolan vetoed the agreed-upon swap of Lowry for Shumpert and a future first and Ujiri fell ass-backwards into a team that clicked. Since he realized the team he inherited was good his signature move has probably been signing Demarre Carroll to a big contract, which.....I mean, hooray?

As it is, I think Toronto eventually blinks on giving up one of Ross or Carroll to fill that fifth starter spot and Ibaka winds up there. Toronto may not be desperate-desperate, but they are a win-now team who have watched Boston, Washington, and Atlanta all jump into that Eastern second tier that they had to themselves last season and likely planned on monopolizing this season. That, coupled with the fact that they don't have the luxury of Boston's pile of draft picks or Washington's much younger Wall-Beal-Porter core and Lowry's impending free agency, could lead to them making a deal to try to lock up at least one more ECF appearance before what's quite literally the most successful group in franchise history breaks up or falls off. 

[Bobshot]

Stein of ESPN tweeted this morning (see also Roto) Ibaka may be on the move.

[BitterJim]

Ibaka's disappointing production on an even more disappointing Magic team has severely hurt his value. He was brought in to bring a veteran presence to a talented young team that needs to learn how to win; he couldn't do that and, even worse, he couldn't be a good stats-bad team guy.

Orlando will be lucky to get a late lottery pick for him at this point, which is a third of what they traded him for. And he probably lost out on a $20-25M per year contract too.

You know he's averaging career bests in points and assists, right?  His production has been fine.

and his TRB% is better than last year an inline with two years ago.  Ibaka is not the problem in Orlando.  It is just a terribly constructed team.  The young PG is an inefficient chucker and then they are just a mish mash of hybrid players that don't have real positions.

Indeed. Ibaka can still play. He is not the issue in Orlando.

And the point of acquiring him is because we're not strong enough inside to win a playoff series. Playoff basketball is NOT regular season basketball, and that's a point that seems to escape the casual fan.

Oh yeah, we totally need to make changes if we want our 2nd place team to be able to beat the sub-0.500 team we'd be playing in the first round if the season ended today 

*cue reply implying that I'm stupid and don't realize that playoff basketball is different than regular season basketball, when in reality playoff basketball IS different, but not nearly as different as Bo seems to think*

Why so afraid of addressing the obvious holes in this team?

I'm not afraid of filling holes on the team, I just don't want us use up assets making moves to be the 2nd best team in the east.  If we aren't getting another star to pair with IT/Horford, then there's no point.  Someone like Ibaka would help plug one of our holes short term, but what does it do for us big-picture wise? Not a whole lot (unless people consider getting to the ECF instead of just the second round a big difference big-picture wise, but I don't think you or most other people here do)

The point I was responding to, though, is that we don't need to make changes to get past the first round right now.  We need changes if we want to get to the ECF (and big, big changes if we want to beat Lebron, never mind beating GSW).  I'd actually like Ibaka on this team if we didn't trade any more than salary filler, the Clippers' pick, and maybe Rozier, but I just can't see Orlando doing that

[jay]

I would be for trading Rozier/Amir along with a 2019 first for Ibaka.


Keep AB/Zeller together for a different trade 

[Csfan1984]

I would be for trading Rozier/Amir along with a 2019 first for Ibaka.


Keep AB/Zeller together for a different trade 

I'd do this but not even give them a first. The guy is a FA at the end of the year and has looked bad at times. Rozier and AJ for Ibaka no picks.

[Big333223]

Ibaka's disappointing production on an even more disappointing Magic team has severely hurt his value. He was brought in to bring a veteran presence to a talented young team that needs to learn how to win; he couldn't do that and, even worse, he couldn't be a good stats-bad team guy.

Orlando will be lucky to get a late lottery pick for him at this point, which is a third of what they traded him for. And he probably lost out on a $20-25M per year contract too.

You know he's averaging career bests in points and assists, right?  His production has been fine.

and his TRB% is better than last year an inline with two years ago.  Ibaka is not the problem in Orlando.  It is just a terribly constructed team.  The young PG is an inefficient chucker and then they are just a mish mash of hybrid players that don't have real positions.

Indeed. Ibaka can still play. He is not the issue in Orlando.

And the point of acquiring him is because we're not strong enough inside to win a playoff series. Playoff basketball is NOT regular season basketball, and that's a point that seems to escape the casual fan.

Oh yeah, we totally need to make changes if we want our 2nd place team to be able to beat the sub-0.500 team we'd be playing in the first round if the season ended today 

*cue reply implying that I'm stupid and don't realize that playoff basketball is different than regular season basketball, when in reality playoff basketball IS different, but not nearly as different as Bo seems to think*

Why so afraid of addressing the obvious holes in this team?

I'm not afraid of filling holes on the team, I just don't want us use up assets making moves to be the 2nd best team in the east. If we aren't getting another star to pair with IT/Horford, then there's no point.  Someone like Ibaka would help plug one of our holes short term, but what does it do for us big-picture wise? Not a whole lot (unless people consider getting to the ECF instead of just the second round a big difference big-picture wise, but I don't think you or most other people here do)

The point I was responding to, though, is that we don't need to make changes to get past the first round right now.  We need changes if we want to get to the ECF (and big, big changes if we want to beat Lebron, never mind beating GSW).  I'd actually like Ibaka on this team if we didn't trade any more than salary filler, the Clippers' pick, and maybe Rozier, but I just can't see Orlando doing that

It depends on the deal but the C's have a full roster plus 2 guys stashed overseas and another hidden in the D-League. They'll be adding a top 3 pick next summer and have a bunch of 2nd rounders that they'll have to make decisions on.

If another piece could be got for the likes of Amir, Zeller (unlikely to be brought back next season anyway), or Rozier (unlikely to get minutes with IT, Smart, and Bradley in front of him) and that piece helps the team win now while consolidating the roster to make room for other assets later, then I think the C's would be smart to do it, even if it doesn't make them an immediate contender.

[CoachBo]

Ibaka's disappointing production on an even more disappointing Magic team has severely hurt his value. He was brought in to bring a veteran presence to a talented young team that needs to learn how to win; he couldn't do that and, even worse, he couldn't be a good stats-bad team guy.

Orlando will be lucky to get a late lottery pick for him at this point, which is a third of what they traded him for. And he probably lost out on a $20-25M per year contract too.

You know he's averaging career bests in points and assists, right?  His production has been fine.

and his TRB% is better than last year an inline with two years ago.  Ibaka is not the problem in Orlando.  It is just a terribly constructed team.  The young PG is an inefficient chucker and then they are just a mish mash of hybrid players that don't have real positions.

Indeed. Ibaka can still play. He is not the issue in Orlando.

And the point of acquiring him is because we're not strong enough inside to win a playoff series. Playoff basketball is NOT regular season basketball, and that's a point that seems to escape the casual fan.

Oh yeah, we totally need to make changes if we want our 2nd place team to be able to beat the sub-0.500 team we'd be playing in the first round if the season ended today 

*cue reply implying that I'm stupid and don't realize that playoff basketball is different than regular season basketball, when in reality playoff basketball IS different, but not nearly as different as Bo seems to think*

Why so afraid of addressing the obvious holes in this team?

I'm not afraid of filling holes on the team, I just don't want us use up assets making moves to be the 2nd best team in the east.  If we aren't getting another star to pair with IT/Horford, then there's no point.  Someone like Ibaka would help plug one of our holes short term, but what does it do for us big-picture wise? Not a whole lot (unless people consider getting to the ECF instead of just the second round a big difference big-picture wise, but I don't think you or most other people here do)

The point I was responding to, though, is that we don't need to make changes to get past the first round right now.  We need changes if we want to get to the ECF (and big, big changes if we want to beat Lebron, never mind beating GSW).  I'd actually like Ibaka on this team if we didn't trade any more than salary filler, the Clippers' pick, and maybe Rozier, but I just can't see Orlando doing that

Defeatist Green Teamer attitude. if you ask me, to automatically assume this team cannot compete if Ainge actually does what he does best - trade.

Actually, this team isn't that far away, and Ainge's draft record is a clear indicator that playing the perpetual rebuild game that this board loves with all its heart isn't going to get it any closer.

I don't know why people don't grasp that the "5- to 7-years forever" nonsense ended when they signed Horford. Management wants to contend. Soon. They're not going to foolishly waste all their money re-upping the mediocrity that Ainge has accumulated - Sullinger is one example, and Olynyk is just one more.

 And they are quite correct. At least the people who matter most get it.

[arctic 3.0]

Ibaka's disappointing production on an even more disappointing Magic team has severely hurt his value. He was brought in to bring a veteran presence to a talented young team that needs to learn how to win; he couldn't do that and, even worse, he couldn't be a good stats-bad team guy.

Orlando will be lucky to get a late lottery pick for him at this point, which is a third of what they traded him for. And he probably lost out on a $20-25M per year contract too.

You know he's averaging career bests in points and assists, right?  His production has been fine.

and his TRB% is better than last year an inline with two years ago.  Ibaka is not the problem in Orlando.  It is just a terribly constructed team.  The young PG is an inefficient chucker and then they are just a mish mash of hybrid players that don't have real positions.

Indeed. Ibaka can still play. He is not the issue in Orlando.

And the point of acquiring him is because we're not strong enough inside to win a playoff series. Playoff basketball is NOT regular season basketball, and that's a point that seems to escape the casual fan.

Oh yeah, we totally need to make changes if we want our 2nd place team to be able to beat the sub-0.500 team we'd be playing in the first round if the season ended today 

*cue reply implying that I'm stupid and don't realize that playoff basketball is different than regular season basketball, when in reality playoff basketball IS different, but not nearly as different as Bo seems to think*

Why so afraid of addressing the obvious holes in this team?

I'm not afraid of filling holes on the team, I just don't want us use up assets making moves to be the 2nd best team in the east.  If we aren't getting another star to pair with IT/Horford, then there's no point.  Someone like Ibaka would help plug one of our holes short term, but what does it do for us big-picture wise? Not a whole lot (unless people consider getting to the ECF instead of just the second round a big difference big-picture wise, but I don't think you or most other people here do)

The point I was responding to, though, is that we don't need to make changes to get past the first round right now.  We need changes if we want to get to the ECF (and big, big changes if we want to beat Lebron, never mind beating GSW).  I'd actually like Ibaka on this team if we didn't trade any more than salary filler, the Clippers' pick, and maybe Rozier, but I just can't see Orlando doing that

Defeatist Green Teamer attitude. if you ask me, to automatically assume this team cannot compete if Ainge actually does what he does best - trade.

Actually, this team isn't that far away, and Ainge's draft record is a clear indicator that playing the perpetual rebuild game that this board loves with all its heart isn't going to get it any closer.

I don't know why people don't grasp that the "5- to 7-years forever" nonsense ended when they signed Horford. Management wants to contend. Soon. They're not going to foolishly waste all their money re-upping the mediocrity that Ainge has accumulated - Sullinger is one example, and Olynyk is just one more.

 And they are quite correct. At least the people who matter most get it.

Perpetual rebuild?
4 years removed from the trade we are second in the east, currently 9 and 1 in our last 10.
We are stacked with assets and have multiple quality draft picks including a near garunteed top 4 pick in this years draft headed our way.
This has to be one of the fastest, most successful, and long term durable  rebuilds in league history.

[trickybilly]

I feel like he did so well on that OKC team because of how much attention Russ and Durant garnered. Wide open shots. Also durant and Russ are such elite defensive presences that he was getting 2nd man up blocks easily.

It stands to reason that if he goes back to a team like that (I.e Boston), he returns to his old statistical averages...

[Darío SpanishFan]

Perpetual rebuild. LOL.

I wish some of the usual-complainers were Philly or Brooklyn fans. We are in a privileged position now and even better looking into the future.

[hodgy03038]

Might as well close this topic since Ibaka has been traded to Toronto

[CoachBo]

Ibaka's disappointing production on an even more disappointing Magic team has severely hurt his value. He was brought in to bring a veteran presence to a talented young team that needs to learn how to win; he couldn't do that and, even worse, he couldn't be a good stats-bad team guy.

Orlando will be lucky to get a late lottery pick for him at this point, which is a third of what they traded him for. And he probably lost out on a $20-25M per year contract too.

You know he's averaging career bests in points and assists, right?  His production has been fine.

and his TRB% is better than last year an inline with two years ago.  Ibaka is not the problem in Orlando.  It is just a terribly constructed team.  The young PG is an inefficient chucker and then they are just a mish mash of hybrid players that don't have real positions.

Indeed. Ibaka can still play. He is not the issue in Orlando.

And the point of acquiring him is because we're not strong enough inside to win a playoff series. Playoff basketball is NOT regular season basketball, and that's a point that seems to escape the casual fan.

Oh yeah, we totally need to make changes if we want our 2nd place team to be able to beat the sub-0.500 team we'd be playing in the first round if the season ended today 

*cue reply implying that I'm stupid and don't realize that playoff basketball is different than regular season basketball, when in reality playoff basketball IS different, but not nearly as different as Bo seems to think*

Why so afraid of addressing the obvious holes in this team?

I'm not afraid of filling holes on the team, I just don't want us use up assets making moves to be the 2nd best team in the east.  If we aren't getting another star to pair with IT/Horford, then there's no point.  Someone like Ibaka would help plug one of our holes short term, but what does it do for us big-picture wise? Not a whole lot (unless people consider getting to the ECF instead of just the second round a big difference big-picture wise, but I don't think you or most other people here do)

The point I was responding to, though, is that we don't need to make changes to get past the first round right now.  We need changes if we want to get to the ECF (and big, big changes if we want to beat Lebron, never mind beating GSW).  I'd actually like Ibaka on this team if we didn't trade any more than salary filler, the Clippers' pick, and maybe Rozier, but I just can't see Orlando doing that

Defeatist Green Teamer attitude. if you ask me, to automatically assume this team cannot compete if Ainge actually does what he does best - trade.

Actually, this team isn't that far away, and Ainge's draft record is a clear indicator that playing the perpetual rebuild game that this board loves with all its heart isn't going to get it any closer.

I don't know why people don't grasp that the "5- to 7-years forever" nonsense ended when they signed Horford. Management wants to contend. Soon. They're not going to foolishly waste all their money re-upping the mediocrity that Ainge has accumulated - Sullinger is one example, and Olynyk is just one more.

 And they are quite correct. At least the people who matter most get it.

Perpetual rebuild?
4 years removed from the trade we are second in the east, currently 9 and 1 in our last 10.
We are stacked with assets and have multiple quality draft picks including a near garunteed top 4 pick in this years draft headed our way.
This has to be one of the fastest, most successful, and long term durable  rebuilds in league history.

Uh, no.

Try the 1979-80 Celtics.

And this team gets bounced out of the playoffs early without rebounding help. Regular season records are irrelevant to the playoffs.

And you, of course, obscure the point: There are posts here daily that want to trade Thomas, and one poster who posts - time after time after time despite board rules to the contrary - begging Ainge not to break up this team - remind me again how many playoff series it has won - to improve it. Can't catch Cleveland - despite substantial evidence to the contrary, with a rebounder or two.

Those are the people who love rebuilding more than they do championships.