Kyler on Boston/Ibaka rumors

[Moranis]

Ibaka's disappointing production on an even more disappointing Magic team has severely hurt his value. He was brought in to bring a veteran presence to a talented young team that needs to learn how to win; he couldn't do that and, even worse, he couldn't be a good stats-bad team guy.

Orlando will be lucky to get a late lottery pick for him at this point, which is a third of what they traded him for. And he probably lost out on a $20-25M per year contract too.

You know he's averaging career bests in points and assists, right?  His production has been fine.

and his TRB% is better than last year an inline with two years ago.  Ibaka is not the problem in Orlando.  It is just a terribly constructed team.  The young PG is an inefficient chucker and then they are just a mish mash of hybrid players that don't have real positions. 

[Irish Stew]

I'm not sure I get the point of an Ibaka trade unless it's combined with something like a Butler trade. If we're just giving up expirings and 2nd rounders, fine, but I think that the market price will be higher. I don't think that his addition alone gets us to the Eastern Conference Finals. He doesn't seem like a likely long term signing since he would eat into our cap space, not to mention the question of his actual age.

[saltlover]

I'm not sure I get the point of an Ibaka trade unless it's combined with something like a Butler trade. If we're just giving up expirings and 2nd rounders, fine, but I think that the market price will be higher. I don't think that his addition alone gets us to the Eastern Conference Finals. He doesn't seem like a likely long term signing since he would eat into our cap space, not to mention the question of his actual age.

I don't think we need Ibaka to get to the ECF.  But he helps us get there.  He really helps in a matchup vs. the Cavs.  He's a 3-point shooting PF who will help keep Love off the offensive boards.  He's not an elite rebounder, but he's better than anyone we've got, so that's a gain.  He's still a very good shot blocker.  He'll help keep the paint clear on offense for Isaiah to drive.

He's a real upgrade on what is our weakest position.  His offensive game fits very well into what we do.  His defensive game fits very well into what we need.

Few people think we should give up the farm for him, but a non-Brooklyn 1st and expirings would be a solid acquisition.  The team is good enough to add Ibaka, even if he guarantees us nothing.

[CoachBo]

Ibaka's disappointing production on an even more disappointing Magic team has severely hurt his value. He was brought in to bring a veteran presence to a talented young team that needs to learn how to win; he couldn't do that and, even worse, he couldn't be a good stats-bad team guy.

Orlando will be lucky to get a late lottery pick for him at this point, which is a third of what they traded him for. And he probably lost out on a $20-25M per year contract too.

You know he's averaging career bests in points and assists, right?  His production has been fine.

and his TRB% is better than last year an inline with two years ago.  Ibaka is not the problem in Orlando.  It is just a terribly constructed team.  The young PG is an inefficient chucker and then they are just a mish mash of hybrid players that don't have real positions.

Indeed. Ibaka can still play. He is not the issue in Orlando.

And the point of acquiring him is because we're not strong enough inside to win a playoff series. Playoff basketball is NOT regular season basketball, and that's a point that seems to escape the casual fan.

[chambers]

I've been an advocate of Ibaka's potential Celtics move for a while now.
The more I scan the current NBA landscape the more getting him for scraps off the middle of our treasure pile is worth it.

He's like a super version of Amir Johnson and is better at basically everything. WAY better.
Even if he walks, he'll be a free agent and we'll get an extended look at his fit on the team and if he's worth throwing a solid contract at. Who knows, he may love it and love competing at the top of the East and give us a good value deal.
If he walks then who cares? It won't mean anything long term because we decided he wasn't good enough. Better to have saved the caproom and find out pretty quickly that he wasn't a fit here without regretting it for years to come like the Bucks and Monroe.

side rant/thought:
Surely Ainge would be looking at ways to possible trade ibaka for Griffin to his buddy Doc.
Getting salaries to work might be too hard but the pieces seem a good fit...

Celtics get Blake Griffin+Diamond Stone

Knicks get Brooklyn 18'+Rozier+Memphis 19'+ Clippers 20'+Jamal Crawford+Zeller

Clippers get Avery Bradley, Serge ibaka, Carmelo Anthony. ( they might also have to send out Reddick to may it work but Bradley is an upgrade over Reddick.)

[chambers]

I'm not sure I get the point of an Ibaka trade unless it's combined with something like a Butler trade. If we're just giving up expirings and 2nd rounders, fine, but I think that the market price will be higher. I don't think that his addition alone gets us to the Eastern Conference Finals. He doesn't seem like a likely long term signing since he would eat into our cap space, not to mention the question of his actual age.

I don't think we need Ibaka to get to the ECF.  But he helps us get there.  He really helps in a matchup vs. the Cavs.  He's a 3-point shooting PF who will help keep Love off the offensive boards.  He's not an elite rebounder, but he's better than anyone we've got, so that's a gain.  He's still a very good shot blocker.  He'll help keep the paint clear on offense for Isaiah to drive.

He's a real upgrade on what is our weakest position.  His offensive game fits very well into what we do.  His defensive game fits very well into what we need.

Few people think we should give up the farm for him, but a non-Brooklyn 1st and expirings would be a solid acquisition.  The team is good enough to add Ibaka, even if he guarantees us nothing.

Very well said, TP.
Your analysis of Ainge's asset 'problem' was spot on too- he is in the drivers seat for pretty much all of these kind of vulture/predatory swoops.
Now when it comes to acquiring stars, it would be something out of a fairy tale if somehow the Bulls and Pacers decided they really want that Brooklyn pick (if we are lucky enough to get #1), that would give Danny goosebumps.                                                                           

[CFAN38]

I would offer up AB and look for a 3rd team to accommodate the magic. Teams that are in the playoff hunt like Memphis or Sac may be interested in trading a young player and a pick for AB. Maybe the Magic even just take the swap.

I think it is going to be important for the Cs to trade for a starting caliber big man like Ibaka at the deadline. If they wait to sign a player in the offseason and do not sign a star they may be forced to settle on a player like Ibaka as a FA without being able to retain KO. Trading now allows the team to sign both.

[SHAQATTACK]

Ibaka if he has anything left in the tank might play VERY well beside Brown

[saltlover]

I would offer up AB and look for a 3rd team to accommodate the magic. Teams that are in the playoff hunt like Memphis or Sac may be interested in trading a young player and a pick for AB. Maybe the Magic even just take the swap.

I think it is going to be important for the Cs to trade for a starting caliber big man like Ibaka at the deadline. If they wait to sign a player in the offseason and do not sign a star they may be forced to settle on a player like Ibaka as a FA without being able to retain KO. Trading now allows the team to sign both.

The Magic take AB for Ibaka in a heartbeat.  They say yes before Ainge can reconsider.

Accordingly, I'm not a fan.

[CoachBo]

I would offer up AB and look for a 3rd team to accommodate the magic. Teams that are in the playoff hunt like Memphis or Sac may be interested in trading a young player and a pick for AB. Maybe the Magic even just take the swap.

I think it is going to be important for the Cs to trade for a starting caliber big man like Ibaka at the deadline. If they wait to sign a player in the offseason and do not sign a star they may be forced to settle on a player like Ibaka as a FA without being able to retain KO. Trading now allows the team to sign both.

Not opposed to this idea at all - but I care absolutely nothing about retaining Olynyk. I'd happily move him in any reasonable deal.

[Irish Stew]

I would offer up AB and look for a 3rd team to accommodate the magic. Teams that are in the playoff hunt like Memphis or Sac may be interested in trading a young player and a pick for AB. Maybe the Magic even just take the swap.

I think it is going to be important for the Cs to trade for a starting caliber big man like Ibaka at the deadline. If they wait to sign a player in the offseason and do not sign a star they may be forced to settle on a player like Ibaka as a FA without being able to retain KO. Trading now allows the team to sign both.

`

Ibaka fever is in the air! I'm not giving up Bradley who makes $8.8 million next year. Combined with Thomas at $6.2 million, this backcourt is perhaps the best bargain in the entire league. If I'm giving up Bradley, it's for bigger fish like Butler or George.

[chambers]

I would offer up AB and look for a 3rd team to accommodate the magic. Teams that are in the playoff hunt like Memphis or Sac may be interested in trading a young player and a pick for AB. Maybe the Magic even just take the swap.

I think it is going to be important for the Cs to trade for a starting caliber big man like Ibaka at the deadline. If they wait to sign a player in the offseason and do not sign a star they may be forced to settle on a player like Ibaka as a FA without being able to retain KO. Trading now allows the team to sign both.

The Magic take AB for Ibaka in a heartbeat.  They say yes before Ainge can reconsider.

Accordingly, I'm not a fan.

How come?
Ultimately we'll have to let AB or IT walk right?
Are you okay with letting AB walk away to a huge deal after next year?

Just interested to know why you'd rather keep AB this/next season.
Don't like Ibaka enough or use AB in a different trade?

[BitterJim]

Ibaka's disappointing production on an even more disappointing Magic team has severely hurt his value. He was brought in to bring a veteran presence to a talented young team that needs to learn how to win; he couldn't do that and, even worse, he couldn't be a good stats-bad team guy.

Orlando will be lucky to get a late lottery pick for him at this point, which is a third of what they traded him for. And he probably lost out on a $20-25M per year contract too.

You know he's averaging career bests in points and assists, right?  His production has been fine.

and his TRB% is better than last year an inline with two years ago.  Ibaka is not the problem in Orlando.  It is just a terribly constructed team.  The young PG is an inefficient chucker and then they are just a mish mash of hybrid players that don't have real positions.

Indeed. Ibaka can still play. He is not the issue in Orlando.

And the point of acquiring him is because we're not strong enough inside to win a playoff series. Playoff basketball is NOT regular season basketball, and that's a point that seems to escape the casual fan.

Oh yeah, we totally need to make changes if we want our 2nd place team to be able to beat the sub-0.500 team we'd be playing in the first round if the season ended today 

*cue reply implying that I'm stupid and don't realize that playoff basketball is different than regular season basketball, when in reality playoff basketball IS different, but not nearly as different as Bo seems to think*

[CoachBo]

Ibaka's disappointing production on an even more disappointing Magic team has severely hurt his value. He was brought in to bring a veteran presence to a talented young team that needs to learn how to win; he couldn't do that and, even worse, he couldn't be a good stats-bad team guy.

Orlando will be lucky to get a late lottery pick for him at this point, which is a third of what they traded him for. And he probably lost out on a $20-25M per year contract too.

You know he's averaging career bests in points and assists, right?  His production has been fine.

and his TRB% is better than last year an inline with two years ago.  Ibaka is not the problem in Orlando.  It is just a terribly constructed team.  The young PG is an inefficient chucker and then they are just a mish mash of hybrid players that don't have real positions.

Indeed. Ibaka can still play. He is not the issue in Orlando.

And the point of acquiring him is because we're not strong enough inside to win a playoff series. Playoff basketball is NOT regular season basketball, and that's a point that seems to escape the casual fan.

Oh yeah, we totally need to make changes if we want our 2nd place team to be able to beat the sub-0.500 team we'd be playing in the first round if the season ended today 

*cue reply implying that I'm stupid and don't realize that playoff basketball is different than regular season basketball, when in reality playoff basketball IS different, but not nearly as different as Bo seems to think*

Why so afraid of addressing the obvious holes in this team?

[saltlover]

I would offer up AB and look for a 3rd team to accommodate the magic. Teams that are in the playoff hunt like Memphis or Sac may be interested in trading a young player and a pick for AB. Maybe the Magic even just take the swap.

I think it is going to be important for the Cs to trade for a starting caliber big man like Ibaka at the deadline. If they wait to sign a player in the offseason and do not sign a star they may be forced to settle on a player like Ibaka as a FA without being able to retain KO. Trading now allows the team to sign both.

The Magic take AB for Ibaka in a heartbeat.  They say yes before Ainge can reconsider.

Accordingly, I'm not a fan.

How come?
Ultimately we'll have to let AB or IT walk right?
Are you okay with letting AB walk away to a huge deal after next year?

Just interested to know why you'd rather keep AB this/next season.
Don't like Ibaka enough or use AB in a different trade?

The prevailing notion is that we can't afford to keep AB/IT/Smart when they all hit free agency at the same time.  I mostly agree.  However, don't you think Ibaka will get paid approximately the same amount next summer as AB will the following year?  In that case, might we also lose Smart or IT in two years?  If we can't afford all three of Smart/IT/AB, then can we afford all three of Smart/IT/Ibaka?  Or are we letting Ibaka walk next summer?  In the former case, I'm not a fan of the deal because I'd rather not lose two of the three for Ibaka.  I don't think he moves the needle enough.  In the latter case, I'd rather not trade AB for an expiring.