Kyler on Boston/Ibaka rumors

[jpotter33]

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/829814053631569920

Magic have run a few things by Boston, but not convinced they have traction anywhere.

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/829811657681440768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

You can ask for whatever you want - does not mean Celtics would do it... For what its worth, I'd want Brown if I were talking to the Celtics

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/829815993086140416?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Celtics have told teams not to ask unless an All-Star is involved. They want that [Brooklyn] pick unless it lands them Butler or someone of that level.

Surely the Magic aren't dense enough to think they're getting something like Brown back for Ibaka. Most likely that's just a starting point that they're coming down from, but I don't think they'll get anywhere near the value for him that they think they will.

It also sounds like Toronto is interested in Ibaka, but they're not willing to give up what the Magic want either. They also think they can get him in free agency (do they even have the space with Lowry needing paid, too?), so don't want to trade significant assets for him now.

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/829813888959012864

My understanding is that conversation took place and Raptors wouldn't give up value. Maybe that changes at the deadline.

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/829813715658743808

He might, and thats the game. Why give up assets if the guy will walk to you in July? Raptors have cap issues to weigh too.

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/829812981433266176

That conversation already happened and Raptors would do a deal good enough for the Magic. I say get TRoss and call it a day.

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/829812427223085057

No sense of that. I think if Ibaka had his choice, and that's a factor, he be in Toronto, but not sure they buy at Magic's prices

I kind of wonder if having too many good assets hurts us a bit in this regard. For example, even if a package of Zeller, Rozier, and the Memphis pick would beat the package that Toronto is offering, since we have other significant assets that we're not willing to part with for Ibaka, such as Brown, Smart, and the Brooklyn picks, I kind of wonder if that turns teams off and makes them look elsewhere.

[Phantom255x]

The Magic are asking all that for Ibaka??? 

Also, it really seems like Ainge is intent on KEEPING that Brooklyn Pick.

Even some of the names that have been thrown around (PG13, Butler) there hasn't been much traction but that could change come draft day (once the pick # is known).

I WANT Ibaka here, but at that value, no way lol. Magic clearly desperate to deal him though.

[saltlover]

The Raptors would have to move probably both of Terrence Ross and Carroll to have room for Ibaka in free agency.  They're about $5 million over the cap including Lowry's cap hold.  I don't really think they'd wait for free agency if they could get him for Ross and something else now.

[green_bballers13]

If Orlando is desperate to get rid of Ibaka, I see no reason why we shouldn't pick him up. Amir/Zeller and change should work.

If Orlando wants a significant return, I'd pass.

[saltlover]

If Orlando is desperate to get rid of Ibaka, I see no reason why we shouldn't pick him up. Amir/Zeller and change should work.

If Orlando wants a significant return, I'd pass.

Magic GM is trying to save his job.  He gave up a late lottery pick, a good prospect in Oladipo, and an NBA big who's about Zeller quality in Ilyasova (maybe he's a little better).  Since the Ibaka move hasn't worked (the Magic still stink), getting back what he paid would be very helpful.  He's not going to, but there's no reason to settle for less until the very end.

[jpotter33]

The Raptors would have to move probably both of Terrence Ross and Carroll to have room for Ibaka in free agency.  They're about $5 million over the cap including Lowry's cap hold.  I don't really think they'd wait for free agency if they could get him for Ross and something else now.

With Boogie, Butler, and PG all seemingly not moving at the deadline, I could see Toronto and Boston going hard for Ibaka closer to the deadline, though it's hard to see either of them offerign up a ton for him like they're currently seeking.

What I worry about though is that Toronto seems much more desperate to make a move than Boston, who at the very worst can sit back and collect high draft picks the next two years, while still having a max salary spot available.

I think we can beat the Ross/Clips pick package pretty easily without adding any of our significant core assets, but I'm worried that Toronto might go for broke and starting adding more to the package just as much to keep him away from us as to get him themselves.

[saltlover]

The Raptors would have to move probably both of Terrence Ross and Carroll to have room for Ibaka in free agency.  They're about $5 million over the cap including Lowry's cap hold.  I don't really think they'd wait for free agency if they could get him for Ross and something else now.

With Boogie, Butler, and PG all seemingly not moving at the deadline, I could see Toronto and Boston going hard for Ibaka closer to the deadline, though it's hard to see either of them offerign up a ton for him like they're currently seeking.

What I worry about though is that Toronto seems much more desperate to make a move than Boston, who at the very worst can sit back and collect high draft picks the next two years, while still having a max salary spot available.

I think we can beat the Ross/Clips pick package pretty easily without adding any of our significant core assets, but I'm worried that Toronto might go for broke and starting adding more to the package just as much to keep him away from us as to get him themselves.

The only thing slightly holding us back from Ross/Clips pick is a potential desire of them to get someone in this draft, which we can't offer.  But I think that's only a slight holdup.  The other is if they really like Ross, but then I think a deal would be done.

I feel this deadline will be more active than last year's.  I think the huge amount of cap room and pending CBA revision made most teams just stay put.  On the other hand, if teams are too afraid of Golden State, that could again suppress the market, as no one wants to give up value in a losing effort.

Also, I don't sense Toronto as desperate.  Ujiri is a very good GM.

[celticsclay]

The Raptors would have to move probably both of Terrence Ross and Carroll to have room for Ibaka in free agency.  They're about $5 million over the cap including Lowry's cap hold.  I don't really think they'd wait for free agency if they could get him for Ross and something else now.

With Boogie, Butler, and PG all seemingly not moving at the deadline, I could see Toronto and Boston going hard for Ibaka closer to the deadline, though it's hard to see either of them offerign up a ton for him like they're currently seeking.

What I worry about though is that Toronto seems much more desperate to make a move than Boston, who at the very worst can sit back and collect high draft picks the next two years, while still having a max salary spot available.

I think we can beat the Ross/Clips pick package pretty easily without adding any of our significant core assets, but I'm worried that Toronto might go for broke and starting adding more to the package just as much to keep him away from us as to get him themselves.

The only thing slightly holding us back from Ross/Clips pick is a potential desire of them to get someone in this draft, which we can't offer.  But I think that's only a slight holdup.  The other is if they really like Ross, but then I think a deal would be done.

I feel this deadline will be more active than last year's.  I think the huge amount of cap room and pending CBA revision made most teams just stay put.  On the other hand, if teams are too afraid of Golden State, that could again suppress the market, as no one wants to give up value in a losing effort.

Also, I don't sense Toronto as desperate.  Ujiri is a very good GM.

Is it crazy to think making the ECF would matter more to Toronto than it would to us? It would really solidify us an emerging powerhouse that is above the Pacers/Wizards etc of the world. We also have not made it in quite a long time. I am not sure there is a big difference to the Raptors if they make it or lose a tough fought series in the second round or the ECF. Their perception in free agency probably does not change that much either way. They need to get a 3rd big star with Demar and Lowry to take a leap. We probably need to still prove we are just one player away from the leap with an ECF appearance (and prove IT is legitmate in the playoffs which Lowry and Demar don't have to prove).

[GreenEnvy]

The Raptors would have to move probably both of Terrence Ross and Carroll to have room for Ibaka in free agency.  They're about $5 million over the cap including Lowry's cap hold.  I don't really think they'd wait for free agency if they could get him for Ross and something else now.

With Boogie, Butler, and PG all seemingly not moving at the deadline, I could see Toronto and Boston going hard for Ibaka closer to the deadline, though it's hard to see either of them offerign up a ton for him like they're currently seeking.

What I worry about though is that Toronto seems much more desperate to make a move than Boston, who at the very worst can sit back and collect high draft picks the next two years, while still having a max salary spot available.

I think we can beat the Ross/Clips pick package pretty easily without adding any of our significant core assets, but I'm worried that Toronto might go for broke and starting adding more to the package just as much to keep him away from us as to get him themselves.

All the more reason to keep in the Ibaka talks, if for nothing more than to drive the price up for Toronto.

[Granath]

The Raptors would have to move probably both of Terrence Ross and Carroll to have room for Ibaka in free agency.  They're about $5 million over the cap including Lowry's cap hold.  I don't really think they'd wait for free agency if they could get him for Ross and something else now.

With Boogie, Butler, and PG all seemingly not moving at the deadline, I could see Toronto and Boston going hard for Ibaka closer to the deadline, though it's hard to see either of them offerign up a ton for him like they're currently seeking.

What I worry about though is that Toronto seems much more desperate to make a move than Boston, who at the very worst can sit back and collect high draft picks the next two years, while still having a max salary spot available.

I think we can beat the Ross/Clips pick package pretty easily without adding any of our significant core assets, but I'm worried that Toronto might go for broke and starting adding more to the package just as much to keep him away from us as to get him themselves.

The only thing slightly holding us back from Ross/Clips pick is a potential desire of them to get someone in this draft, which we can't offer.  But I think that's only a slight holdup.  The other is if they really like Ross, but then I think a deal would be done.

I feel this deadline will be more active than last year's.  I think the huge amount of cap room and pending CBA revision made most teams just stay put.  On the other hand, if teams are too afraid of Golden State, that could again suppress the market, as no one wants to give up value in a losing effort.

Also, I don't sense Toronto as desperate.  Ujiri is a very good GM.

Is it crazy to think making the ECF would matter more to Toronto than it would to us? It would really solidify us an emerging powerhouse that is above the Pacers/Wizards etc of the world. We also have not made it in quite a long time. I am not sure there is a big difference to the Raptors if they make it or lose a tough fought series in the second round or the ECF. Their perception in free agency probably does not change that much either way. They need to get a 3rd big star with Demar and Lowry to take a leap. We probably need to still prove we are just one player away from the leap with an ECF appearance (and prove IT is legitmate in the playoffs which Lowry and Demar don't have to prove).

I agree. I think this means more to the Cs than it does to Toronto. Toronto made it to the ECF last year. The Cs have been one and done the last two years. To continue to appear as a team on the rise and therefore be more attractive to Free Agents and players looking for a trade from their current teams the Cs need to go deeper into the playoffs.

[OHCeltic]

If I could get Ibaka for Johnson and Illyasova for Zeller and a couple of second round picks I would do that. Gives us better scorers and rebounders. Still maintain salary cap for next year.

[jambr380]

I kind of wonder if having too many good assets hurts us a bit in this regard. For example, even if a package of Zeller, Rozier, and the Memphis pick would beat the package that Toronto is offering, since we have other significant assets that we're not willing to part with for Ibaka, such as Brown, Smart, and the Brooklyn picks, I kind of wonder if that turns teams off and makes them look elsewhere.

This should basically be pinned on the front page. This is my fear, as well. Also TP for the info and analysis. Ibaka would be okay for minimal assets, but I would like the option to break away from contract negotiations if he is asking too much or we have the opportunity of signing somebody like Hayward. Toronto certainly seems to have more incentive to get a deal done.

[saltlover]

I kind of wonder if having too many good assets hurts us a bit in this regard. For example, even if a package of Zeller, Rozier, and the Memphis pick would beat the package that Toronto is offering, since we have other significant assets that we're not willing to part with for Ibaka, such as Brown, Smart, and the Brooklyn picks, I kind of wonder if that turns teams off and makes them look elsewhere.

This should basically be pinned on the front page. This is my fear, as well. Also TP for the info and analysis. Ibaka would be okay for minimal assets, but I would like the option to break away from contract negotiations if he is asking too much or we have the opportunity of signing somebody like Hayward. Toronto certainly seems to have more incentive to get a deal done.

Having too many assets shouldn't hurt us.  If Orlando, for example, can only get expirings and a late 2017 1st for Ibaka from the Raptors, would they turn down a better offer from the Celtics and accept that just because the Celtics wouldn't beat the Raptors by even more than they already had?  Will a non-competing team that has no competing offers choose to let a player they know they won't resign hit free agency just because they can't get that top asset from Ainge?  No to both cases.  The market is still the market, and GMs wants to get the most they can, period.  If that stops short of Jaylen Brown for Ibaka, so be it.  That was a failed move by the Magic, but it still behooves them to get some sort of asset back, and the best one they can negotiate.

Ainge and the other GMs will have a staring contest, but Ainge is really in the driver seat.  Here's why:

1) Ainge knows the most he's willing to pay for a player.
2) He knows the most other teams are able to reasonably pay for a player.
3) So for any player he legitimately wants, he can make an offer greater than #2, but no greater than #1.
4) Because he so many potential options, if a team really wants to trade a player, they need to take Ainge's best offer before someone else takes it (and perhaps the critical piece they were after.)
5) The Celtics don't NEED to do anything right now.  With max cap space this summer, a top 4 draft pick in great draft class, and a top 5-7 team this season, he can pass on all offers if there's none to his liking.  His potential trading partners have much more need to do something than he does.

Now it could be that Toronto feels close to being a championship contender and is willing to offer a lot for Ibaka, for example, more than Ainge thinks it's worth.  It's possible that the other teams all think they're going to keep their free agents.  In this case, Ainge wouldn't make a trade, because Toronto would be willing to pay more than Ainge, and there are no other options.  And therefore a trade doesn't get made.  But that's still okay, for the reason enumerated in #5, and why Danny won't exceed his price in #1.  Ainge CAN trump any offer that he wants.  He can choose not to.  But he won't be punished for having too many riches.

[#1P4P]

Ibaka's disappointing production on an even more disappointing Magic team has severely hurt his value. He was brought in to bring a veteran presence to a talented young team that needs to learn how to win; he couldn't do that and, even worse, he couldn't be a good stats-bad team guy.

Orlando will be lucky to get a late lottery pick for him at this point, which is a third of what they traded him for. And he probably lost out on a $20-25M per year contract too.

[saltlover]

Ibaka's disappointing production on an even more disappointing Magic team has severely hurt his value. He was brought in to bring a veteran presence to a talented young team that needs to learn how to win; he couldn't do that and, even worse, he couldn't be a good stats-bad team guy.

Orlando will be lucky to get a late lottery pick for him at this point, which is a third of what they traded him for. And he probably lost out on a $20-25M per year contract too.

You know he's averaging career bests in points and assists, right?  His production has been fine.