Author Topic: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome  (Read 2921 times)

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Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« on: January 11, 2017, 11:19:43 PM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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This board has been an utter mess all season.

I ignore most of it especially after losses.

I like to read Rollie's opinions on players. One rarely sees him chattering about trade rumors.

The injuries can now become a blessing in disguise. They hurt in the early part of the season because the team had yet to form its identity. Now it has, so all these lost players to injury will most likely increase the value of players who otherwise collect dust and splinters on the bench.

Rozier looked good. If all our guards stay healthy, he never gets to see the court. In the beginning of the year, he became an asset. But when he gets benched, the value for Danny's purposes takes a hit.

No one can predict the future. No one knows who might get hurt. Danny and Brad are obviously angling for a deep playoff run. A lot of people need to chill out. They seem to have no clue. Trade Horford? How about, where's the mute button? Or, that fan does not represent the vast majority of fans. I hope the Celtics are not reading this blog. Too many so-called fans are an utter embarrassment.

Amir is out giving Mickey some minutes. Jordan Mickey has now gone from being perhaps a negative asset to neutral or sort of worth something after tonight. He looked half decent out there, just still raw. Olynyk and Jerebko were able to solidify their roles. These are blessings in disguise. Marcus Smart has had some solid games with the extra responsibility without Avery.

Horford is good. We are missing one big type center to prevent getting bullied or having to put too much strain on Horford and Amir. KG was exceptional to the extent he had a Perk doing dirty work around the rim. Horford has had to do too much. We need a center and we also need Avery and Smart healthy just in case Isaiah needs relief, such as with the loss to Toronto when he looked more like the midget guy, not just little.

We are obviously going for offense over defense with Isaiah. I can't believe how much scoring is up in the NBA. I'm not really complaining. Defensive games can get too ugly and boring from an aesthetic point of view. I think we are headed towards the perfect balance of offense and defense. You can give up some defense as long as the offense is reliable in compensating for it. The Grizzlies just don't have enough offense. Two way great players are very rare. We are winning games with IT as the shooting star. It is working.

But Isaiah will need to say humble. I don't like his being cognizant that the fourth is Isaiah Time. It's okay for us to say it, but he shouldn't. Maybe if after the game he is down to earth and explains that he likes to play in tight games at the end and be a guy you can count on, then fine. He almost jinxed us tonight.

Most of these guys make their own trouble. Al Horford is the opposite of that. And Avery too. They just play. I didn't like Marcus Smart all itching for a fight with Beal. I didn't like what Crowder said about he could leave Boston just fine or however he put it.

Keith Bogans was a guy who made trouble for himself. He probably would have gotten some chances. Brad is fair like that. Gerald Green for all his ball hogging plays it the right way. He supports his teammates and understands Celtics Pride.

Green is like Sam Cassell. Just assume he is going to do his own thing and not be shy on offense.

It takes a whole team to accomplish something.

Fans who have knee-jerk reactions and especially after losses are probably teenagers eager to add in their raw two cents. Maybe they will grow as bloggers as we hope Jaylen Brown can ripen from those heady days of youth.

There's something extremely boorish about so-called fans who attack a team on the rise with Brooklyn picks still rolling in. We have the seventh best record meaning the Nets are currently stuck with the 24th pick. That will most likely not make them any better in relation to 2017-18.

Al Horford has looked a bit weak in spots. He also has looked quite spectacular too, especially when he first came back from the concussion.

No matter how disappointed anyone might be with Al Horford so far, he is still way better than any other big we currently have and it's not even close.

Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2017, 11:25:50 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Knee jerk reactions are tiresome, positive or negative. The source problem is often that people have their opinions and if a single game confirms their opinions, they post. When games contradict their opinions, they are quiet.

Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2017, 11:30:55 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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thanks for yet another thoughtful and articulate post cp. such posts are a welcome additions to cb.

your points are good ones, but the central one to me is the one mentioned in the title - the negativity.

today's game thread is a case in point. it was a close game and the celtics, who have a history of turning it on in the fourth quarter, were down by only two at the end of the third quarter.

yet, if one followed the game based solely upon the posts and not the score, a reader could reasonably have believed that the celtics were having their collective asses handed to them and were being beaten like a rented mule.

even when the celtics did something good, often in the same post there was an accompanying negative comment. ("olynyk took a good shot. i dont expect that again" sort of post.)

i understand the ups and down of emotions during games. but the level of sustained negativity is something i cannot comprehend.

we watch the games to be entertained and to enjoy ourselves. but i see more depression and anger and negativity than is warrented in a thread for a game in which the celtics WIN.

i dont mind negativity when situations and games require it. but during a win?

but this is simply my pet peeve right now about cb. hopefully things turn a bit cheerier soon.  ;D
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Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2017, 11:47:48 AM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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Knee jerk reactions are tiresome, positive or negative. The source problem is often that people have their opinions and if a single game confirms their opinions, they post. When games contradict their opinions, they are quiet.

This is true and includes myself from the positive side. I had prepared an entry during the Toronto game. I assumed we would win and wrote accordingly. The game fell apart by the end and I deleted all of it.

Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2017, 11:54:00 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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thanks for yet another thoughtful and articulate post cp. such posts are a welcome additions to cb.

your points are good ones, but the central one to me is the one mentioned in the title - the negativity.

today's game thread is a case in point. it was a close game and the celtics, who have a history of turning it on in the fourth quarter, were down by only two at the end of the third quarter.

yet, if one followed the game based solely upon the posts and not the score, a reader could reasonably have believed that the celtics were having their collective asses handed to them and were being beaten like a rented mule.

even when the celtics did something good, often in the same post there was an accompanying negative comment. ("olynyk took a good shot. i dont expect that again" sort of post.)

i understand the ups and down of emotions during games. but the level of sustained negativity is something i cannot comprehend.

we watch the games to be entertained and to enjoy ourselves. but i see more depression and anger and negativity than is warrented in a thread for a game in which the celtics WIN.

i dont mind negativity when situations and games require it. but during a win?

but this is simply my pet peeve right now about cb. hopefully things turn a bit cheerier soon.  ;D

Regarding the game threads, this season I've started to look up the score before the game thread if I'm not in a position to watch the game.  It used to be the other way around, but at this point anything but a blowout in our favor looks the same.  We could have a ten point lead but the game threads still look bleak a lot of the time
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Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2017, 11:57:59 AM »

Online Donoghus

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Game threads are inherently always going to be knee-jerk.  It's occurring in real time.  Those threads always have been emotional rollercoasters.  That being said, some handle it better than other.


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Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2017, 12:52:56 PM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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Thanks, Hwangjini. I like to ramble. I was originally responding to the thread asking why people are talking about trading Horford then figured I'll put it on a separate page. If I am going to critique ball hogging, then I don't want to be a hypocrite with blog hogging. I feel if I ramble on my own threads, that could be a fair compromise. I'm hogging my own thread!

I was checking out some of the game threads earlier in the season. It was too much of a distraction.

On your recommendation, I just skimmed through last night's. JPotter was so negative. You seemingly brought him back from the ledge.

I liked the two put backs by Isaiah off his own misses. It reminded me of Bird doing it against I think the Rockets. It's a famous play. I realize you must know what I'm talking about, but it was the one where Larry caught and shot it off the rebound.

Tommy says those are "How did he do that" plays. It's true.

Marcus Smart is like that for defense. It's possible we can combine the two and it is a workable, championship contending back court for value.

It is not so simple as lining up three stars and then filler. That worked for Ainge in 2008 and then Riley stole the blueprint for Miami. But then LeBron went back to Cleveland and all their lucky number one picks. Golden State emerged. San Antonio perhaps still sticks around that upper echelon. I'm not saying it's impossible for Ainge to reproduce the KG-Ray move, but this time it just feels different. We are in a unique situation to be a top eight team with top picks pouring in for the foreseeable future. The other scenario had Pierce starting to get antsy. It was a now or never predicament. That's not what is going on this time. If Danny made no more trades and just rode this out, he is possibly looking at a ten year window. People clamoring for Cousins don't seem to understand the idea of the window.

How can the Brooklyn pick be included in a trade, for example, when neither the Celtics or other teams know what it's worth? Miami looks like a tanking contender. Even if the Nets end up where they are now as #1 in tankathon ratings, we could still end up with the fourth pick. I'm not trying to be negative, but it's the truth. How can such a volatile pick be traded? There's too much uncertainty. And it is rude to the current team to always downplay their chances and talk up negatives.

I can be negative here and there. I try to say it as matter of fact. Some people have given up on Olynyk. Maybe they have never liked him. He could be part of the solution. I am hard on him because he needs to play with focus and urgency. And he has of late.

It is big news what Marcus Smart has been up to lately. He has made a huge leap over the last month. Nailing his free throws at a superstar rate has to mean something. But so many simply seem to hate his game. They leave him no room for a ceiling on offense. So what are negative fans going to do if Marcus turns the corner on offense which seems much more likely at this point?

I used to attack Bradley albeit years ago. I was wrong. I attacked Turner last year until I didn't. I praised Sullinger until I didn't. People are putting the horse in front of the cart instead of sitting back and giving this team and its players room to grow. That's excessive negativity.

One of the big problems with the Perk for Green trade was that while it solved one problem, it created another. We needed a backup for Pierce. The trade made sense in that regard. But perhaps it was akin to shooting at a mosquito with a machine gun. It was overkill. Devil's advocate will say Danny had extra centers at the time and then bad luck with those centers, but we didn't need Jeff Green as much as we just needed a Pierce substitute for fifteen or twenty minutes.

Washington is not where we want to end up. Their stars are perhaps flashier than ours except for Isaiah of course, but the rest of their team does not add up to anything great.

We need a big center. That seems to be what everyone agrees on. It's not about rebounding necessarily. If we still had Sully, we'd be better at it, but he was slowing us down in too many other areas.

I think there is an element of physics to this. If we make trades out of impatience, we are going to lose the asset base. Things like Isaiah and Bradley needing new contracts are out of our control. It seems pointless to discuss. I am of the opinion that such decisions cannot be made in a vacuum. We can't know what Olynyk is until the season is over. We can't know if we can win or not with Isaiah until it unfolds.

Say Rozier gets enough play to show he is a legitimate NBA guard although perhaps not good enough to crack the Isaiah-Avery-Marcus rotation. Terry seems superfluous to them. But if he could get enough time to show his stuff, then we could maybe steal a Noel with Rozier as the key piece. Yet as it is, no way would Philly take that swap. So then we have to add in Olynyk. We might have to add a bunch of other things.

Now, the problem is Noel is a restricted free agent. Philly is not going to just gift-wrap him to us like Phoenix did with Isaiah.

But if you roll the dice on someone like Larry Sanders, you get him for free in that you only have to cover his contract. That is the kind of player Danny should add. Or I saw a list of quite a number of big centers who may be available in trades and they would not cost so much like Noel probably will.

If Danny can add such a center, we will become a lot more dangerous for this current season. Or maybe it will be Amir. We are not going down without a fight no matter what. We are equal to Toronto or very close. It wouldn't be a shock to beat them.

It's also still a long ways off to the playoffs, so maybe we should wait until the end of the season to evaluate our chances against Cleveland.

I am not worried about the Cavs or Toronto if we take care of our own internal growth and Danny makes that one sly move to shore up the front court.

Jaylen Brown still has time to solidify himself as Jae's back up.

Olynyk still has time to cement his niche on the team.

These things are unfolding, and even if we fall short this year or perhaps stumble at the end, we will still have the next year to look forward to.

The way a lot of people write, it seems we have been the Atlanta Hawks on a treadmill for ten years, when we actually only recently turned the corner and seriously started moving up the NBA power rankings.

There is now and the future and I think in both cases, the team is more than healthy overall for prospects. I include this year. I am giving away nothing as a positive fan. I think we can win it all right now. It comes down to health and stamina. Brad's teams always get better within seasons.

If only Cleveland and Golden State can win it all, then so be it. But I don't believe that. I think we still have an incomplete grade for this season and that it is a developing story, not something anyone can know with certainty how it will play out.

Thanks for mentioning the game thread. I feel I made the right decision to avoid them if last night was typical. It must be. I see the excessive amount of negative comments in the main section, so why would the game threads be any different?

Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2017, 01:00:52 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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hey, I'm just a concerned "non-fan" due to my dissatisfaction, can someone point me to where I can go and shut up?

I definitely don't want to skew the reality that this team is getting there. Wherever "there" might be in our minds.

Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2017, 01:23:23 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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hey, I'm just a concerned "non-fan" due to my dissatisfaction, can someone point me to where I can go and shut up?

I definitely don't want to skew the reality that this team is getting there. Wherever "there" might be in our minds.

Here you go:  http://www.libertyballers.com/

Just kidding!!!:-))))

Smitty77

Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2017, 01:27:03 PM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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The next game will have huge implications for this forum. We are at Atlanta. If we lose, say Dwight Howard gets 37 rebounds, this board will become officially toxic.

January 25th we have the Rockets at home.

Otherwise, the rest of this month looks very winnable and so do the games against the Hawks and Rockets. Just saying.

I see value in a win is a win as we continue to climb the standings and Brooklyn cements itself as historically bad. It looks extremely hopeful for another top three pick or guaranteed top five. Tommy must be ecstatic and for good reason unlike the miserable ingrates.

Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2017, 01:30:21 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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One things Celticsbloggers never learn is how GMs and front offices around the league perceive value. Rozier having one good night or Mickey finally getting so run because of an injury doesn't change their value.

Other teams have ton of scouting and video on all the Celtics players. They have all the stats. A few good or bad games does not change the value of a player. A player changing their value takes time. Long periods of time.

Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2017, 01:44:55 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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hey, I'm just a concerned "non-fan" due to my dissatisfaction, can someone point me to where I can go and shut up?

I definitely don't want to skew the reality that this team is getting there. Wherever "there" might be in our minds.

Here you go:  http://www.libertyballers.com/

Just kidding!!!:-))))

Smitty77

Hahaha... well I guess we can afford to laugh now

Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2017, 01:57:13 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I can't stand people that are constantly negative about every single thing. I think being negative or down on stuff is fine, but it absolutely can not be your take every single time. It makes me question what the motivation is when someone gets like that.

Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2017, 03:22:11 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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As a reforming Negative Nancy who's been trying really hard to stay on the Wagon of Reasonability, I feel like I can speak somewhat to this issue.

Perspective is important. Some people are too negative, but there are some people who are too positive, strange though that may sound.

To wit: There are people who look at a narrow, come-from-behind win against the Sixers as nothing but a good thing. And in a sense, yes, "the only thing that matters" is the W.

But there are some people (myself included) who look at a narrow, come-from-behind win over the Sixers as a disappointment—because, even though they got the W, the quality of play was discouraging, and doesn't inspire much confidence. And I think that's a reasonable reaction.

As with many things, negativity and positivity seem to be best in moderation.
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Re: Knee-Jerk Negativity Is Tiresome
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2017, 01:50:23 AM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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One things Celticsbloggers never learn is how GMs and front offices around the league perceive value. Rozier having one good night or Mickey finally getting so run because of an injury doesn't change their value.

Other teams have ton of scouting and video on all the Celtics players. They have all the stats. A few good or bad games does not change the value of a player. A player changing their value takes time. Long periods of time.

Rozier is a phenom. He looks like a can't miss prospect. Same with Jaylen. But you're right. Smart has excelled as a point guard and we see what Avery and Isaiah are doing, so there's not much room for him.

It takes two to tango. We have to wait out the trade deadline. Crowder is obviously a bit rattled by it.

RJ Hunter was made an example. Before him it was Pressey. There are only 15 slots. Ainge deserves kudos for this season no matter what happens. This is a great ride.

I feel comfortable with Rozier as fourth guard, but I also like what Brown and Green can do as tall shooting guards.

It should get very interesting over the next couple years if Zizac, Yabusele and Nader pan out along with Smart, Brown, Crowder, the next Brooklyn picks, maybe even Olynyk, not to mention potential future free agents.

I think Danny is like a poker player with a big stack of chips. There is nothing to his advantage to gamble with trades or some otherwise epic move. And instead of losing antes every month to year, the ingrown high quality talent is being taught by a seasoned coach with proven success with young players.

This seems to be the opposite strategy of what Doc and Danny did to get us #17.

That's what I am now feeling, that this is going to be a slow and steady trajectory towards the top. It could be two or three years, hopefully sooner, but I do believe it is happening.