What does this Celtics team need?

[green_bballers13]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

In order to build a superteam, I don't think that either IT or Horford will be the main cogs. As 3/4 options? Sure. But how can the Celtics realistically acquire two top 10 players that aren't over 30?

I would love to see a scenario where all of the draft picks in the world can acquire Anthony Davis AND Kawhi Leonard.

[Clench123]

Cousins

[bmac934]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

In order to build a superteam, I don't think that either IT or Horford will be the main cogs. As 3/4 options? Sure. But how can the Celtics realistically acquire two top 10 players that aren't over 30?

I would love to see a scenario where all of the draft picks in the world can acquire Anthony Davis AND Kawhi Leonard.

ROFL if thats the case then IDK what IT has to do to prove himself.  Actually if thats the case than its probably impossible for IT to prove himself.  Right now we are a top 5 team in the league, what do you expect us to do? Blow it up/Stop caring because there are 2 superteams?  Our ability to compete last year almost landed us Durant in free agency, KEY WORD FREE, this past summer.  Blockbusters dont happen every day, New Orleans GM just said you dont trade great for good EVER.  We also have two upcoming (more than likely) top 3 picks as trade chips.

[The Oracle]

No NBA team is currently saying to themselves "I wish we had a big man that we could dump it to in the post".  Post scoring is HIGHLY inefficient.  Okafor is currently scoring .88 points in the post (per possession) which is dreadful when compared to many other options teams have to go to.

Okafor makes scoring more difficult for everyone he plays with and in no way would ever improve the Celtics offensively.  He clogs the lane and crushes spacing.  He wouldn't improve the rebounding nor the defense.  So why in the world would anyone ever want him???

The answer is a gigantic no to Okafor!

The majority of what you just said is a function of him being on an atrocious 76ers team.  Also obviously our gameplan wouldnt be "everyone clear out and let Okafor go to work in the post".  But judging how we do it for Horford right now (especially when we are in major scoring droughts)...it could happen for Okafor as well.

Also please dont bring up Embiid's success because Embiid is a transcendent once in a generation big (who has a much larger skillset).

You also said before he would improve our rebounding?

Embiid nor any other player in the league is scoring efficiently in the post nor has anyone for a very long time.  It is an epic mistake to build your offense around dumping the ball in the post.  It should only be used on the occasion of a mismatch or very late in possessions and even then there are other options that should always be preferred. 

I never said Okafor would improve our rebounding.  He is awful and rates out as one of the worst rebounders in the entire league.  Amir was terrible to start the year he was basically out there playing volleyball, he has since improved some (still bad) and quit trying to tap everything out.  Okafor would be the equivalent of Amir and wouldn't help our rebounding at all. 

The rebounding from the Celtics bigs is only a very minor problem.  The real problem stems from the complete lack of size/length on the perimeter.  In today's NBA your wings/guards must box out, help rebound, help defend the rim and the C's are not getting that from them do to them being super undersized.  There is just way to much space in the expanded game for your team to not rebound and defend as a unit and leave it to the bigs.

[bmac934]

No NBA team is currently saying to themselves "I wish we had a big man that we could dump it to in the post".  Post scoring is HIGHLY inefficient.  Okafor is currently scoring .88 points in the post (per possession) which is dreadful when compared to many other options teams have to go to.

Okafor makes scoring more difficult for everyone he plays with and in no way would ever improve the Celtics offensively.  He clogs the lane and crushes spacing.  He wouldn't improve the rebounding nor the defense.  So why in the world would anyone ever want him???

The answer is a gigantic no to Okafor!

The majority of what you just said is a function of him being on an atrocious 76ers team.  Also obviously our gameplan wouldnt be "everyone clear out and let Okafor go to work in the post".  But judging how we do it for Horford right now (especially when we are in major scoring droughts)...it could happen for Okafor as well.

Also please dont bring up Embiid's success because Embiid is a transcendent once in a generation big (who has a much larger skillset).

You also said before he would improve our rebounding?

Embiid nor any other player in the league is scoring efficiently in the post nor has anyone for a very long time.  It is an epic mistake to build your offense around dumping the ball in the post.  It should only be used on the occasion of a mismatch or very late in possessions and even then there are other options that should always be preferred. 

I never said Okafor would improve our rebounding.  He is awful and rates out as one of the worst rebounders in the entire league.  Amir was terrible to start the year he was basically out there playing volleyball, he has since improved some (still bad) and quit trying to tap everything out.  Okafor would be the equivalent of Amir and wouldn't help our rebounding at all. 

The rebounding from the Celtics bigs is only a very minor problem.  The real problem stems from the complete lack of size/length on the perimeter.  In today's NBA your wings/guards must box out, help rebound, help defend the rim and the C's are not getting that from them do to them being super undersized.  There is just way to much space in the expanded game for your team to not rebound and defend as a unit and leave it to the bigs.

Your going way to far with this post thing.  Okafor is more than a post player & I never said anything about Embiid in the post.  Okafor is a pure scorer.  I meant Embiid is able to succeed where Okafor is being hindered by whats around him.  Because as I've said and as I believe Okafors shortcomings are largely a function of the 76ers garbageness.

Did you not say Okafor is better than the rebounders we have? Not named Horford.
"There are very few guys that rate out worse than Okafor it just so happens a few of them are Celtics.  Olynyk would be middle of the pack for Centers."

Just to lighten the situation Marcus Smart is pretty efficient in the post lol.

[green_bballers13]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

In order to build a superteam, I don't think that either IT or Horford will be the main cogs. As 3/4 options? Sure. But how can the Celtics realistically acquire two top 10 players that aren't over 30?

I would love to see a scenario where all of the draft picks in the world can acquire Anthony Davis AND Kawhi Leonard.

ROFL if thats the case then IDK what IT has to do to prove himself.  Actually if thats the case than its probably impossible for IT to prove himself.  Right now we are a top 5 team in the league, what do you expect us to do? Blow it up/Stop caring because there are 2 superteams?  Our ability to compete last year almost landed us Durant in free agency, KEY WORD FREE, this past summer.  Blockbusters dont happen every day, New Orleans GM just said you dont trade great for good EVER.

He has proved himself. I love IT. In a vacuum, I think he's a top 10 scorer in this league, on any team. This year he is better than that. The problem is that he may be one of the worst defenders in the NBA, and it is not really his fault. I blame his mom for not marrying a guy that was 6'8.

I'm just trying to be realistic here. I think the best plan is patience. Let's not worry about Jaylen Brown's stats before he can legally buy a beer. Let's not worry that Marcus' offensive game is taking a while to develop. All of these insignificant concerns pale in comparison to what is needed to win a championship.

I can watch a basketball game and enjoy it, without needing to know that this current squad can win a championship this year. If Philly can enjoy the process while presenting an embarrassing product, why can't Boston?

EDIT: also, if you choose to believe that we almost landed KD, that is your choice. I think the Celtics' package was much less impressive than GSW's. They brought Kelly Olynyk to the meetings! Our roster couldn't touch theirs, and KD definitely didn't want to lose to Lebron before getting to the finals. He is looking for multiple rings. I don't think Boston was the right pick, from that perspective.

[seancally]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

In order to build a superteam, I don't think that either IT or Horford will be the main cogs. As 3/4 options? Sure. But how can the Celtics realistically acquire two top 10 players that aren't over 30?

I would love to see a scenario where all of the draft picks in the world can acquire Anthony Davis AND Kawhi Leonard.

ROFL if thats the case then IDK what IT has to do to prove himself.  Actually if thats the case than its probably impossible for IT to prove himself.  Right now we are a top 5 team in the league, what do you expect us to do? Blow it up/Stop caring because there are 2 superteams?  Our ability to compete last year almost landed us Durant in free agency, KEY WORD FREE, this past summer.  Blockbusters dont happen every day, New Orleans GM just said you dont trade great for good EVER.  We also have two upcoming (more than likely) top 3 picks as trade chips.

I wouldn't be surprised if DA was secretly thinking, "OK, I realize we won't take a title with these guys, and that our best chance is in the draft pick timeline. But Boston fans need success, so I'll give them a competitive, playoff-bound team and bide my time building these assets. And if some megatrade presents itself that catapults us, fine. Until then, we're gonna wait for Lebron to get old and play the long game."

And I wouldn't mind that.

[bmac934]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

In order to build a superteam, I don't think that either IT or Horford will be the main cogs. As 3/4 options? Sure. But how can the Celtics realistically acquire two top 10 players that aren't over 30?

I would love to see a scenario where all of the draft picks in the world can acquire Anthony Davis AND Kawhi Leonard.

ROFL if thats the case then IDK what IT has to do to prove himself.  Actually if thats the case than its probably impossible for IT to prove himself.  Right now we are a top 5 team in the league, what do you expect us to do? Blow it up/Stop caring because there are 2 superteams?  Our ability to compete last year almost landed us Durant in free agency, KEY WORD FREE, this past summer.  Blockbusters dont happen every day, New Orleans GM just said you dont trade great for good EVER.

He has proved himself. I love IT. In a vacuum, I think he's a top 10 scorer in this league, on any team. This year he is better than that. The problem is that he may be one of the worst defenders in the NBA, and it is not really his fault. I blame his mom for not marrying a guy that was 6'8.

I'm just trying to be realistic here. I think the best plan is patience. Let's not worry about Jaylen Brown's stats before he can legally buy a beer. Let's not worry that Marcus' offensive game is taking a while to develop. All of these insignificant concerns pale in comparison to what is needed to win a championship.

I can watch a basketball game and enjoy it, without needing to know that this current squad can win a championship this year. If Philly can enjoy the process while presenting an embarrassing product, why can't Boston?

Any Celtics fan would be lying if it didnt cross their mind that "[dang] we have smart brown & two upcoming top 3 picks" along with potential trade chips in IT, AB, JC.  Also as seancally said, we most likely are waiting for the perfect time to blow it up or make a huge splash.  Its a gift and a curse having this much versatility because as fans we just want something to happen lol.  But IMO when your this close to the elite & have a superstar in Thomas, you do not blow it.  Unless the blowing up is too good to pass up.  There are plenty of other superstars in non-competing situations (Paul George, Boogie, Anthony Davis, Carmelo, Westbrook (yes im aware he just resigned, hes just an example) harden (yes im aware he just resigned & im aware HOU is winning, but they do not have the team that we have and the success is entirely on hardens shoulders), lillard, wall).

Tier 1: GS CLE
Tier 2: SAS, BOS, LAC, TOR
and then IMO there is a very large drop off

[PhoSita]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

I suspect a lot of people are holding onto the notion that the Celts could go on a magical run without having one of the top names in the league, similar to what the Pistons did in '04 or what the Mavs did in '11.

I don't think that's entirely out of the question if Ainge continues to build and tinker with this group, though it's exceedingly unlikely, even just making the Finals.

Even so, the fact that the team probably won't beat Cleveland or Golden State anytime soon isn't a reason to give up on maximizing this group of players.  The Celts are set up very well to be a factor in the Eastern Conference playoff picture for the next 4-5 years, at a minimum.  Meanwhile, they have one of the best coaches in the league and multiple top draft picks coming their way.

It is a good spot to be in, even if it appears very unlikely they'll contend for a championship in the next few years.

[Moranis]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

I suspect a lot of people are holding onto the notion that the Celts could go on a magical run without having one of the top names in the league, similar to what the Pistons did in '04 or what the Mavs did in '11.

I don't think that's entirely out of the question if Ainge continues to build and tinker with this group, though it's exceedingly unlikely, even just making the Finals.

Even so, the fact that the team probably won't beat Cleveland or Golden State anytime soon isn't a reason to give up on maximizing this group of players.  The Celts are set up very well to be a factor in the Eastern Conference playoff picture for the next 4-5 years, at a minimum.  Meanwhile, they have one of the best coaches in the league and multiple top draft picks coming their way.

It is a good spot to be in, even if it appears very unlikely they'll contend for a championship in the next few years.

Team isn't going to beat Toronto either.  They are clearly a better team than Boston is and will be for the foreseeable future without some fairly significant changes (obviously what Boston needs to catch Toronto is a lot less than what it needs to catch Cleveland, but there is still a significant enough gap to be noticeable).

[Celtics18]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

I suspect a lot of people are holding onto the notion that the Celts could go on a magical run without having one of the top names in the league, similar to what the Pistons did in '04 or what the Mavs did in '11.

I don't think that's entirely out of the question if Ainge continues to build and tinker with this group, though it's exceedingly unlikely, even just making the Finals.

Even so, the fact that the team probably won't beat Cleveland or Golden State anytime soon isn't a reason to give up on maximizing this group of players.  The Celts are set up very well to be a factor in the Eastern Conference playoff picture for the next 4-5 years, at a minimum.  Meanwhile, they have one of the best coaches in the league and multiple top draft picks coming their way.

It is a good spot to be in, even if it appears very unlikely they'll contend for a championship in the next few years.

Nailed it.  Compete now while simultaneously being set up to build for the future.

Best of both worlds.

[Chris22]

Sign Noel, draft Josh Jackson.

[guava_wrench]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

I suspect a lot of people are holding onto the notion that the Celts could go on a magical run without having one of the top names in the league, similar to what the Pistons did in '04 or what the Mavs did in '11.

I don't think that's entirely out of the question if Ainge continues to build and tinker with this group, though it's exceedingly unlikely, even just making the Finals.

Even so, the fact that the team probably won't beat Cleveland or Golden State anytime soon isn't a reason to give up on maximizing this group of players.  The Celts are set up very well to be a factor in the Eastern Conference playoff picture for the next 4-5 years, at a minimum.  Meanwhile, they have one of the best coaches in the league and multiple top draft picks coming their way.

It is a good spot to be in, even if it appears very unlikely they'll contend for a championship in the next few years.

Dallas had Dirk. Dirk was a dominant offensive force and is a clear HOF talent. He can also guard his position a lot better than IT.

I am very happy with where the Celtics are right now. We have 2 upcoming Nets picks and a roster with talent. On the other hand, I don't know that we have the guys you throw money at to keep, but other teams might agree. I never forget the cheap contract IT signed in Phx despite his offensive accomplishments in SAC -- though 20 ppg is far from 28 ppg.

[Ilikesports17]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

I suspect a lot of people are holding onto the notion that the Celts could go on a magical run without having one of the top names in the league, similar to what the Pistons did in '04 or what the Mavs did in '11.

I don't think that's entirely out of the question if Ainge continues to build and tinker with this group, though it's exceedingly unlikely, even just making the Finals.

Even so, the fact that the team probably won't beat Cleveland or Golden State anytime soon isn't a reason to give up on maximizing this group of players.  The Celts are set up very well to be a factor in the Eastern Conference playoff picture for the next 4-5 years, at a minimum.  Meanwhile, they have one of the best coaches in the league and multiple top draft picks coming their way.

It is a good spot to be in, even if it appears very unlikely they'll contend for a championship in the next few years.

Team isn't going to beat Toronto either.  They are clearly a better team than Boston is and will be for the foreseeable future without some fairly significant changes (obviously what Boston needs to catch Toronto is a lot less than what it needs to catch Cleveland, but there is still a significant enough gap to be noticeable).

Im not sure why you believe this.

Toronto's best 5, (Lowry, Derozan, Carroll, Valunciunas, PAtterson) have missed a combined 12 games. Bostons best 5 (Smart Bradley Thomas Crowder Horford) have missed a combined 28 games.

The Celtics are 2 games back of Toronto and have played them head to head twice.

In game 1, in Boston, Boston was sans Isaiah thomas, Toronto was without Carroll, Boston led at half but eventually lost by 7.

In game 2, Boston was without Avery Bradley, controlled the entire game and lost by 6.

It seems to me that Boston and Toronto are in the same tier. Advantage Toronto untill Boston proves something, but in a 7 game series Im picking the home team right now.

[GratefulCs]

What does this team need? A few years time