Author Topic: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)  (Read 126775 times)

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Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1455 on: December 06, 2018, 10:40:42 PM »

Offline Moranis

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great preview of the likely Eastern Conference Finals tonight with Toronto facing Philly.  Philly looks like they still have a ways to go until they are ready to knock off the Raptors, but by the end of the season they will probably get there.
good ol' LB back to antagonize the blog with his usual outrageous comments and promote his love of Philly at the same time

just my 2 cents, Philly is at best the 4th best team in the East behind Toronto, Celtics, Milwaukee.  maybe not even that high (behind possibly Indy and/or Detroit).  Philly will be fortunate to get that 4th seed by the end of the season and I don't see them beating any of the top 3 teams in a series.  conference semi-finals at best for Philly this year and probably next (if Kawhi resigns in Toronto).
Philly has the 3rd and 4th best player in the conference (Embiid and Butler) and Simmons is somewhere in the back half of the top 10.  Redick is a borderline top 25 player in the conference.  After that, they lack a lot of depth, but in the playoffs when the rotations tighten and the starters play 40 mpg, Philly's lack of depth will be a lot less noticeable.  If they enter the playoffs healthy, given their top end talent, they are going to be incredibly difficult to beat, and Butler absolutely adds a dimension to them they didn't have last year.  They had no one that can create a shot for himself off of the dribble like Butler can. 

LB has always been one that has appreciated what top end talent is and what top end talent actually means in the post season.  I do think his drive by Philly are awesome posts are a bit much, but I don't think he is just trolling either.

Butler as 4th best is very debatable. Simmons at top ten with how has played is flat out ridiculous.
Simmons is averaging 15/9/8 and shooting 56% from the field. He is absolutely a top 10 player in the East. And Butler is pretty clearly the 4th best player in the East

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1456 on: December 06, 2018, 10:48:08 PM »

Offline Moranis

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great preview of the likely Eastern Conference Finals tonight with Toronto facing Philly.  Philly looks like they still have a ways to go until they are ready to knock off the Raptors, but by the end of the season they will probably get there.

If season stopped now, I would have to agree with this but it doesn't and we are getting better and will be in the conference finals. My guess is vs. Raptors. We will beat Sixers again the playoffs to get to that Raptors match up is my guess. Pedigree and Coaching wins almost always...we have the edge in both.
Boston will get better as Hayward's health improves.  He still looks like he has a ways to go until his athleticism fully returns, but I'm targeting post all-star break as a time when he can return to a borderline all-star level of play.

Tatum is the greatest prospect we've had since Bird and I'm hopeful he continues to improve as the season goes on.  He SHOULD eventually be an All-NBA level player and that leap can happen rapidly for young players.   So it's fair to speculate that, if fully healthy, Boston will have 3 (4 if you include Horford) star-caliber players.   At this very moment, we're a 1 star team sitting in the 6th seed.

As the season progresses, I think it's fair to expect Boston to move up to the 4th seed.  Maybe 3rd.   The 4th seed would be a tough position to be in, though... it would mean facing the Raptors on the road in Round 2 - and home court is probably going to be be significant. 

Philly has 3 legitimate all-stars right now.  Embiid is on most people's short list as an early MVP favorite.  Redick is having a career year as well.  This group is still extremely new together - so I'd be curious to see how they look in about 20 games, but from a pure talent standpoint, it's hard to say any team has more top-tier talent than Philly right now.  I also think there's another move to be made this season if they want to make it.   If I had to guess, it's their conference to lose this season. 

I also don't think you can sleep on the Bucks.  Giannis is another MVP candidate and Middleton is having an all-star season.  They also have surrounded Giannis with guys who can light it up.  Middleton shoots 42% from three, Brogdon is shooting 49% from three,  Brook Lopez is a sneaky solid addition as he's shooting 37% from three, and Drew Bledsoe is shooting 36% from three.  That makes them dangerous - moreso than last year when it's widely believed their coach totally dropped the ball.   

I got Boston in the mix as one of the 4 teams capable of making the conference finals, but at present Philly is the logical choice to win the conference.  They are going to have to get through Kawhi "New LeBron of the East" Leonard first.

What about McHale? Reggie Lewis? Paul Pierce?
Tatum is a higher level prospect then those guys were and is a significantly higher one than Lewis was.  He wasn't a greater prospect then Len Bias though.  Real shame what happened to him. 

But being a higher lever prospect doesn't mean you will end up a better player or have a better career.

Pierce was projected as a top 3 pick in a really loaded draft. Not sure how we can say Tatum was higher than him. Itís possible it is a wash. I donít know enough about Mchale as a prospect to comment on that one
Pierce was always considered a guy that would be a very good player but he wasn't widely regarded as a future hall of Fame type player. He actually ended up out performing his general prospect level by being a consistent all star level performer that will make the HOF.  Tatum has a much higher ceiling than that, though obviously could also end up no where near that player.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1457 on: December 06, 2018, 10:56:59 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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great preview of the likely Eastern Conference Finals tonight with Toronto facing Philly.  Philly looks like they still have a ways to go until they are ready to knock off the Raptors, but by the end of the season they will probably get there.
good ol' LB back to antagonize the blog with his usual outrageous comments and promote his love of Philly at the same time

just my 2 cents, Philly is at best the 4th best team in the East behind Toronto, Celtics, Milwaukee.  maybe not even that high (behind possibly Indy and/or Detroit).  Philly will be fortunate to get that 4th seed by the end of the season and I don't see them beating any of the top 3 teams in a series.  conference semi-finals at best for Philly this year and probably next (if Kawhi resigns in Toronto).
Philly has the 3rd and 4th best player in the conference (Embiid and Butler) and Simmons is somewhere in the back half of the top 10.  Redick is a borderline top 25 player in the conference.  After that, they lack a lot of depth, but in the playoffs when the rotations tighten and the starters play 40 mpg, Philly's lack of depth will be a lot less noticeable.  If they enter the playoffs healthy, given their top end talent, they are going to be incredibly difficult to beat, and Butler absolutely adds a dimension to them they didn't have last year.  They had no one that can create a shot for himself off of the dribble like Butler can. 

LB has always been one that has appreciated what top end talent is and what top end talent actually means in the post season.  I do think his drive by Philly are awesome posts are a bit much, but I don't think he is just trolling either.

Butler as 4th best is very debatable. Simmons at top ten with how has played is flat out ridiculous.
Simmons is averaging 15/9/8 and shooting 56% from the field. He is absolutely a top 10 player in the East. And Butler is pretty clearly the 4th best player in the East

Thatís one opinion. The ringer just had Simmons as number 11 in the east for the season (which I still think his eye). Your opinion is just that and not shared by all

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1458 on: December 06, 2018, 11:07:09 PM »

Offline liam

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great preview of the likely Eastern Conference Finals tonight with Toronto facing Philly.  Philly looks like they still have a ways to go until they are ready to knock off the Raptors, but by the end of the season they will probably get there.

If season stopped now, I would have to agree with this but it doesn't and we are getting better and will be in the conference finals. My guess is vs. Raptors. We will beat Sixers again the playoffs to get to that Raptors match up is my guess. Pedigree and Coaching wins almost always...we have the edge in both.
Boston will get better as Hayward's health improves.  He still looks like he has a ways to go until his athleticism fully returns, but I'm targeting post all-star break as a time when he can return to a borderline all-star level of play.

Tatum is the greatest prospect we've had since Bird and I'm hopeful he continues to improve as the season goes on.  He SHOULD eventually be an All-NBA level player and that leap can happen rapidly for young players.   So it's fair to speculate that, if fully healthy, Boston will have 3 (4 if you include Horford) star-caliber players.   At this very moment, we're a 1 star team sitting in the 6th seed.

As the season progresses, I think it's fair to expect Boston to move up to the 4th seed.  Maybe 3rd.   The 4th seed would be a tough position to be in, though... it would mean facing the Raptors on the road in Round 2 - and home court is probably going to be be significant. 

Philly has 3 legitimate all-stars right now.  Embiid is on most people's short list as an early MVP favorite.  Redick is having a career year as well.  This group is still extremely new together - so I'd be curious to see how they look in about 20 games, but from a pure talent standpoint, it's hard to say any team has more top-tier talent than Philly right now.  I also think there's another move to be made this season if they want to make it.   If I had to guess, it's their conference to lose this season. 

I also don't think you can sleep on the Bucks.  Giannis is another MVP candidate and Middleton is having an all-star season.  They also have surrounded Giannis with guys who can light it up.  Middleton shoots 42% from three, Brogdon is shooting 49% from three,  Brook Lopez is a sneaky solid addition as he's shooting 37% from three, and Drew Bledsoe is shooting 36% from three.  That makes them dangerous - moreso than last year when it's widely believed their coach totally dropped the ball.   

I got Boston in the mix as one of the 4 teams capable of making the conference finals, but at present Philly is the logical choice to win the conference.  They are going to have to get through Kawhi "New LeBron of the East" Leonard first.

What about McHale? Reggie Lewis? Paul Pierce?
Tatum is a higher level prospect then those guys were and is a significantly higher one than Lewis was.  He wasn't a greater prospect then Len Bias though.  Real shame what happened to him. 

But being a higher lever prospect doesn't mean you will end up a better player or have a better career.

Pierce was projected as a top 3 pick in a really loaded draft. Not sure how we can say Tatum was higher than him. Itís possible it is a wash. I donít know enough about Mchale as a prospect to comment on that one
Pierce was always considered a guy that would be a very good player but he wasn't widely regarded as a future hall of Fame type player. He actually ended up out performing his general prospect level by being a consistent all star level performer that will make the HOF.  Tatum has a much higher ceiling than that, though obviously could also end up no where near that player.

I believe Pierce was considered  a top 3 pick the year he came out and a can't miss top player. The big mystery on draft night was why he feel. I have never heard a good explanation of it.

Mchale was much like Tatum in that Red would have taken him with the 1st pick in that draft but he traded down to the 3rd pick where he new McHale would still be waiting to be picked and picked up The Chief for his troubles. Here's the quote: "Heading into the 1980 draft, McHale was widely identified as one of three possible top picks. Along with guard Darrell Griffith and center Joe Barry Carroll, McHale Ė who flourished in four years at Minnesota Ė was seen as an elite talent. While it was a mystery as to who would go first, Carroll was considered to have a slight edge."

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1459 on: December 06, 2018, 11:23:13 PM »

Offline bdm860

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great preview of the likely Eastern Conference Finals tonight with Toronto facing Philly.  Philly looks like they still have a ways to go until they are ready to knock off the Raptors, but by the end of the season they will probably get there.

If season stopped now, I would have to agree with this but it doesn't and we are getting better and will be in the conference finals. My guess is vs. Raptors. We will beat Sixers again the playoffs to get to that Raptors match up is my guess. Pedigree and Coaching wins almost always...we have the edge in both.
Boston will get better as Hayward's health improves.  He still looks like he has a ways to go until his athleticism fully returns, but I'm targeting post all-star break as a time when he can return to a borderline all-star level of play.

Tatum is the greatest prospect we've had since Bird and I'm hopeful he continues to improve as the season goes on.  He SHOULD eventually be an All-NBA level player and that leap can happen rapidly for young players.   So it's fair to speculate that, if fully healthy, Boston will have 3 (4 if you include Horford) star-caliber players.   At this very moment, we're a 1 star team sitting in the 6th seed.

As the season progresses, I think it's fair to expect Boston to move up to the 4th seed.  Maybe 3rd.   The 4th seed would be a tough position to be in, though... it would mean facing the Raptors on the road in Round 2 - and home court is probably going to be be significant. 

Philly has 3 legitimate all-stars right now.  Embiid is on most people's short list as an early MVP favorite.  Redick is having a career year as well.  This group is still extremely new together - so I'd be curious to see how they look in about 20 games, but from a pure talent standpoint, it's hard to say any team has more top-tier talent than Philly right now.  I also think there's another move to be made this season if they want to make it.   If I had to guess, it's their conference to lose this season. 

I also don't think you can sleep on the Bucks.  Giannis is another MVP candidate and Middleton is having an all-star season.  They also have surrounded Giannis with guys who can light it up.  Middleton shoots 42% from three, Brogdon is shooting 49% from three,  Brook Lopez is a sneaky solid addition as he's shooting 37% from three, and Drew Bledsoe is shooting 36% from three.  That makes them dangerous - moreso than last year when it's widely believed their coach totally dropped the ball.   

I got Boston in the mix as one of the 4 teams capable of making the conference finals, but at present Philly is the logical choice to win the conference.  They are going to have to get through Kawhi "New LeBron of the East" Leonard first.

What about McHale? Reggie Lewis? Paul Pierce?
Tatum is a higher level prospect then those guys were and is a significantly higher one than Lewis was.  He wasn't a greater prospect then Len Bias though.  Real shame what happened to him. 

But being a higher lever prospect doesn't mean you will end up a better player or have a better career.

Pierce was projected as a top 3 pick in a really loaded draft. Not sure how we can say Tatum was higher than him. Itís possible it is a wash. I donít know enough about Mchale as a prospect to comment on that one
Pierce was always considered a guy that would be a very good player but he wasn't widely regarded as a future hall of Fame type player. He actually ended up out performing his general prospect level by being a consistent all star level performer that will make the HOF.  Tatum has a much higher ceiling than that, though obviously could also end up no where near that player.

How far down are future Hall of Famers usually expected to get drafted?  Tatum wasn't even a consensus top 3.  I don't think he was seen as a future Hall of Famer before the draft.  If he was I definitely didn't hear about it.  And the many people here who wanted Josh Jackson didn't hear about it either (unless he's also a HOF level prospect). I thought Tatum and Jackson were seen as the same level of prospect.

In regards to Pierce, not that I see you necessarily disagreeing that he was considered top 3 talent, but just to put some support on celticsclay's claim:

CBS News:
Quote
The Denver Nuggets, coming off a season in which they won only 11 games, picked Kansas forward Raef LaFrentz with the third pick.

It was the first surprise of the night, since Paul Pierce, considered by many to be the best all-around player in the draft, had been expected to be among the top three picks.


Jackie MacMullan/SI mock draft:
Quote
3. NUGGETS Paul Pierce, 6'7", F, Kansas--Denver desperately
wants a big man and may package Pierce in a trade for Olowokandi.

New York Daily News mock draft:
Quote
3. DENVER Paul Pierce KANSAS It's a long rebuilding program for Dan Issel, but once Pierce improves his perimeter shooting, look out.

Of course, all that still doesn't distinguish level of prospect, but I'm with celticsclay in that I'd say Pierce/Tatum was a possible wash.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 12:31:11 AM by bdm860 »

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1460 on: December 06, 2018, 11:39:00 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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great preview of the likely Eastern Conference Finals tonight with Toronto facing Philly.  Philly looks like they still have a ways to go until they are ready to knock off the Raptors, but by the end of the season they will probably get there.

If season stopped now, I would have to agree with this but it doesn't and we are getting better and will be in the conference finals. My guess is vs. Raptors. We will beat Sixers again the playoffs to get to that Raptors match up is my guess. Pedigree and Coaching wins almost always...we have the edge in both.
Boston will get better as Hayward's health improves.  He still looks like he has a ways to go until his athleticism fully returns, but I'm targeting post all-star break as a time when he can return to a borderline all-star level of play.

Tatum is the greatest prospect we've had since Bird and I'm hopeful he continues to improve as the season goes on.  He SHOULD eventually be an All-NBA level player and that leap can happen rapidly for young players.   So it's fair to speculate that, if fully healthy, Boston will have 3 (4 if you include Horford) star-caliber players.   At this very moment, we're a 1 star team sitting in the 6th seed.

As the season progresses, I think it's fair to expect Boston to move up to the 4th seed.  Maybe 3rd.   The 4th seed would be a tough position to be in, though... it would mean facing the Raptors on the road in Round 2 - and home court is probably going to be be significant. 

Philly has 3 legitimate all-stars right now.  Embiid is on most people's short list as an early MVP favorite.  Redick is having a career year as well.  This group is still extremely new together - so I'd be curious to see how they look in about 20 games, but from a pure talent standpoint, it's hard to say any team has more top-tier talent than Philly right now.  I also think there's another move to be made this season if they want to make it.   If I had to guess, it's their conference to lose this season. 

I also don't think you can sleep on the Bucks.  Giannis is another MVP candidate and Middleton is having an all-star season.  They also have surrounded Giannis with guys who can light it up.  Middleton shoots 42% from three, Brogdon is shooting 49% from three,  Brook Lopez is a sneaky solid addition as he's shooting 37% from three, and Drew Bledsoe is shooting 36% from three.  That makes them dangerous - moreso than last year when it's widely believed their coach totally dropped the ball.   

I got Boston in the mix as one of the 4 teams capable of making the conference finals, but at present Philly is the logical choice to win the conference.  They are going to have to get through Kawhi "New LeBron of the East" Leonard first.

What about McHale? Reggie Lewis? Paul Pierce?
Tatum is a higher level prospect then those guys were and is a significantly higher one than Lewis was.  He wasn't a greater prospect then Len Bias though.  Real shame what happened to him. 

But being a higher lever prospect doesn't mean you will end up a better player or have a better career.

Pierce was projected as a top 3 pick in a really loaded draft. Not sure how we can say Tatum was higher than him. Itís possible it is a wash. I donít know enough about Mchale as a prospect to comment on that one
Pierce was always considered a guy that would be a very good player but he wasn't widely regarded as a future hall of Fame type player. He actually ended up out performing his general prospect level by being a consistent all star level performer that will make the HOF.  Tatum has a much higher ceiling than that, though obviously could also end up no where near that player.

Pierce was considered an all-star prospect I agree, not projected as HOF type. Tatum however wasn't projected as high as LarBrd says he is. In fact a lot of people were questioning if his game will transition in the NBA well, given his penchant for mid-range and lack of elite athleticism and range.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1461 on: December 06, 2018, 11:55:42 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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great preview of the likely Eastern Conference Finals tonight with Toronto facing Philly.  Philly looks like they still have a ways to go until they are ready to knock off the Raptors, but by the end of the season they will probably get there.

If season stopped now, I would have to agree with this but it doesn't and we are getting better and will be in the conference finals. My guess is vs. Raptors. We will beat Sixers again the playoffs to get to that Raptors match up is my guess. Pedigree and Coaching wins almost always...we have the edge in both.
Boston will get better as Hayward's health improves.  He still looks like he has a ways to go until his athleticism fully returns, but I'm targeting post all-star break as a time when he can return to a borderline all-star level of play.

Tatum is the greatest prospect we've had since Bird and I'm hopeful he continues to improve as the season goes on.  He SHOULD eventually be an All-NBA level player and that leap can happen rapidly for young players.   So it's fair to speculate that, if fully healthy, Boston will have 3 (4 if you include Horford) star-caliber players.   At this very moment, we're a 1 star team sitting in the 6th seed.

As the season progresses, I think it's fair to expect Boston to move up to the 4th seed.  Maybe 3rd.   The 4th seed would be a tough position to be in, though... it would mean facing the Raptors on the road in Round 2 - and home court is probably going to be be significant. 

Philly has 3 legitimate all-stars right now.  Embiid is on most people's short list as an early MVP favorite.  Redick is having a career year as well.  This group is still extremely new together - so I'd be curious to see how they look in about 20 games, but from a pure talent standpoint, it's hard to say any team has more top-tier talent than Philly right now.  I also think there's another move to be made this season if they want to make it.   If I had to guess, it's their conference to lose this season. 

I also don't think you can sleep on the Bucks.  Giannis is another MVP candidate and Middleton is having an all-star season.  They also have surrounded Giannis with guys who can light it up.  Middleton shoots 42% from three, Brogdon is shooting 49% from three,  Brook Lopez is a sneaky solid addition as he's shooting 37% from three, and Drew Bledsoe is shooting 36% from three.  That makes them dangerous - moreso than last year when it's widely believed their coach totally dropped the ball.   

I got Boston in the mix as one of the 4 teams capable of making the conference finals, but at present Philly is the logical choice to win the conference.  They are going to have to get through Kawhi "New LeBron of the East" Leonard first.

What about McHale? Reggie Lewis? Paul Pierce?
Tatum is a higher level prospect then those guys were and is a significantly higher one than Lewis was.  He wasn't a greater prospect then Len Bias though.  Real shame what happened to him. 

But being a higher lever prospect doesn't mean you will end up a better player or have a better career.

Pierce was projected as a top 3 pick in a really loaded draft. Not sure how we can say Tatum was higher than him. Itís possible it is a wash. I donít know enough about Mchale as a prospect to comment on that one
Pierce was always considered a guy that would be a very good player but he wasn't widely regarded as a future hall of Fame type player. He actually ended up out performing his general prospect level by being a consistent all star level performer that will make the HOF.  Tatum has a much higher ceiling than that, though obviously could also end up no where near that player.

How far down are future Hall of Famers usually expected to get drafted?  Tatum wasn't even a consensus top 3.  I don't think he was seen as a future Hall of Famer before the draft.  If he was I definitely didn't here about it.  And the many people here who wanted Josh Jackson didn't here about it either (unless he's also a HOF level prospect). I thought Tatum and Jackson were seen as the same level of prospect.

In regards to Pierce, not that I see you necessarily disagreeing that he was considered top 3 talent, but just to put some support on celticsclay's claim:

CBS News:
Quote
The Denver Nuggets, coming off a season in which they won only 11 games, picked Kansas forward Raef LaFrentz with the third pick.

It was the first surprise of the night, since Paul Pierce, considered by many to be the best all-around player in the draft, had been expected to be among the top three picks.


Jackie MacMullan/SI mock draft:
Quote
3. NUGGETS Paul Pierce, 6'7", F, Kansas--Denver desperately
wants a big man and may package Pierce in a trade for Olowokandi.

New York Daily News mock draft:
Quote
3. DENVER Paul Pierce KANSAS It's a long rebuilding program for Dan Issel, but once Pierce improves his perimeter shooting, look out.

Of course, all that still doesn't distinguish level of prospect, but I'm with celticsclay in that I'd say Pierce/Tatum was a possible wash.

Thank you for this. Iím still baffled by tazz not knowing this for how much he talks about the drafts. Perhaps before his time?

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1462 on: December 07, 2018, 02:26:46 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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great preview of the likely Eastern Conference Finals tonight with Toronto facing Philly.  Philly looks like they still have a ways to go until they are ready to knock off the Raptors, but by the end of the season they will probably get there.

If season stopped now, I would have to agree with this but it doesn't and we are getting better and will be in the conference finals. My guess is vs. Raptors. We will beat Sixers again the playoffs to get to that Raptors match up is my guess. Pedigree and Coaching wins almost always...we have the edge in both.
Boston will get better as Hayward's health improves.  He still looks like he has a ways to go until his athleticism fully returns, but I'm targeting post all-star break as a time when he can return to a borderline all-star level of play.

Tatum is the greatest prospect we've had since Bird and I'm hopeful he continues to improve as the season goes on.  He SHOULD eventually be an All-NBA level player and that leap can happen rapidly for young players.   So it's fair to speculate that, if fully healthy, Boston will have 3 (4 if you include Horford) star-caliber players.   At this very moment, we're a 1 star team sitting in the 6th seed.

As the season progresses, I think it's fair to expect Boston to move up to the 4th seed.  Maybe 3rd.   The 4th seed would be a tough position to be in, though... it would mean facing the Raptors on the road in Round 2 - and home court is probably going to be be significant. 

Philly has 3 legitimate all-stars right now.  Embiid is on most people's short list as an early MVP favorite.  Redick is having a career year as well.  This group is still extremely new together - so I'd be curious to see how they look in about 20 games, but from a pure talent standpoint, it's hard to say any team has more top-tier talent than Philly right now.  I also think there's another move to be made this season if they want to make it.   If I had to guess, it's their conference to lose this season. 

I also don't think you can sleep on the Bucks.  Giannis is another MVP candidate and Middleton is having an all-star season.  They also have surrounded Giannis with guys who can light it up.  Middleton shoots 42% from three, Brogdon is shooting 49% from three,  Brook Lopez is a sneaky solid addition as he's shooting 37% from three, and Drew Bledsoe is shooting 36% from three.  That makes them dangerous - moreso than last year when it's widely believed their coach totally dropped the ball.   

I got Boston in the mix as one of the 4 teams capable of making the conference finals, but at present Philly is the logical choice to win the conference.  They are going to have to get through Kawhi "New LeBron of the East" Leonard first.

What about McHale? Reggie Lewis? Paul Pierce?
Tatum is a higher level prospect then those guys were and is a significantly higher one than Lewis was.  He wasn't a greater prospect then Len Bias though.  Real shame what happened to him. 

But being a higher lever prospect doesn't mean you will end up a better player or have a better career.

Pierce was projected as a top 3 pick in a really loaded draft. Not sure how we can say Tatum was higher than him. Itís possible it is a wash. I donít know enough about Mchale as a prospect to comment on that one
I absolutely see Tatum as a higher level prospect than Pierce was - and I say this as someone whose favorite player of the modern era is Paul Pierce.  That doesn't mean Tatum will end up as good as Pierce got, but his ceiling is significantly higher.  Tatum has the potential to be an All-NBA 1st Team level player.  Pierce never accomplished that.  I loved Pierce.  Pierce probably peaked out as a top 15-20 player.  He was never really a superstar.  Great player.  Multi-time all-star.  Contributed to an NBA championship.  Tatum can be better.

Start by comparing them as College Freshman:

Freshman Pierce:  11.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1.3 steals, 0.8 blocks .419/.304/.606

Freshman Tatum: 16.8 points, 7.3 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 1.3 steals, 1.1 blocks .452/.342/.849

Tatum's currently averaging 16.3 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 1 steal in 31.3mpg while shooting with 45%/40%/84% shooting.  At this point in his career, Paul was still in College as a Junior at Kansas.

Tatum's per-36 as a 20 year old is 18.6 points, 7.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 1.2 steals...

You could try comparing that to Paul's rookie season per-36 in which he was a year older:  17.4 points, 6.8 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.8 steals 44%/41%/71% shooting ... but even that's a little silly, because by next season Tatum may have made an even greater leap and his numbers as a 21 year old might dwarf 21 year old rookie Paul even more. 

That combined with the simple fact that Tatum's length, quickness, ball handling, and athleticism make his ceiling arguably significantly higher than Paul had at the same age.  I mean, Tatum's length puts him more on the baby Durant/Dirk spectrum.   He has the potential to be absolutely unguardable in the same way those legends were.

As-is, only 4 players in NBA history under the age of 21 have ever averaged 16+ points 5+ rebounds and least 1 three pointer while shooting above 35% from three.  Those players are 2nd year LeBron, 2nd year Durant - and both Tatum and Luka Doncic if they keep up their production this season.

Tatum is a legitimate superstar prospect.  We haven't had someone with a true superstar ceiling since Bird... maybe Bias if you buy into that, but that dude never suited up for the Celtics.  Tatum's the real deal.  We're lucky to have him.  On a worse team with less talent, he'd easily be averaging 20+ right now.  Consider a guy like LeBron during his 2nd season when he played for a .500 squad lacking talent - he averaged 42.7mpg and 21 field goal attempts per game.  If you inflate Tatum's current stats from 31 to 43mpg, he's averaging closer to 22 points and 9 rebounds.  If you inflate his current shot attempts from 13 to 21, he's averaging [dang] near 26ppg right now.   Kid is legit.  We got a stud.  I still think it's bizarre the tendency some Celtic fans have to underrate this kid and freak out about the tiny mistakes he makes.  He's probably the brightest part of our entire franchise right now. 

Sixers over Raptors in the Conference Finals is the safe bet.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 02:42:33 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1463 on: December 07, 2018, 06:36:54 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Love Tatum, LOVE him, but I'm not ready to say he his "ceiling is significantly higher" than Pierce.  I just don't see enough of a sample size.  IIRC, by Pierce's 2nd year, even Antoine Walker was saying that Pierce was the 'alpha-dog' on the team.

Tatum's "ceiling is significantly higher" than Reggie Lewis too?  I don't see that either.  Reggie was the heir to the throne in the final phase of Bird's career.  He could shoot and had excellent size.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1464 on: December 07, 2018, 06:47:34 AM »

Offline Moranis

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great preview of the likely Eastern Conference Finals tonight with Toronto facing Philly.  Philly looks like they still have a ways to go until they are ready to knock off the Raptors, but by the end of the season they will probably get there.

If season stopped now, I would have to agree with this but it doesn't and we are getting better and will be in the conference finals. My guess is vs. Raptors. We will beat Sixers again the playoffs to get to that Raptors match up is my guess. Pedigree and Coaching wins almost always...we have the edge in both.
Boston will get better as Hayward's health improves.  He still looks like he has a ways to go until his athleticism fully returns, but I'm targeting post all-star break as a time when he can return to a borderline all-star level of play.

Tatum is the greatest prospect we've had since Bird and I'm hopeful he continues to improve as the season goes on.  He SHOULD eventually be an All-NBA level player and that leap can happen rapidly for young players.   So it's fair to speculate that, if fully healthy, Boston will have 3 (4 if you include Horford) star-caliber players.   At this very moment, we're a 1 star team sitting in the 6th seed.

As the season progresses, I think it's fair to expect Boston to move up to the 4th seed.  Maybe 3rd.   The 4th seed would be a tough position to be in, though... it would mean facing the Raptors on the road in Round 2 - and home court is probably going to be be significant. 

Philly has 3 legitimate all-stars right now.  Embiid is on most people's short list as an early MVP favorite.  Redick is having a career year as well.  This group is still extremely new together - so I'd be curious to see how they look in about 20 games, but from a pure talent standpoint, it's hard to say any team has more top-tier talent than Philly right now.  I also think there's another move to be made this season if they want to make it.   If I had to guess, it's their conference to lose this season. 

I also don't think you can sleep on the Bucks.  Giannis is another MVP candidate and Middleton is having an all-star season.  They also have surrounded Giannis with guys who can light it up.  Middleton shoots 42% from three, Brogdon is shooting 49% from three,  Brook Lopez is a sneaky solid addition as he's shooting 37% from three, and Drew Bledsoe is shooting 36% from three.  That makes them dangerous - moreso than last year when it's widely believed their coach totally dropped the ball.   

I got Boston in the mix as one of the 4 teams capable of making the conference finals, but at present Philly is the logical choice to win the conference.  They are going to have to get through Kawhi "New LeBron of the East" Leonard first.

What about McHale? Reggie Lewis? Paul Pierce?
Tatum is a higher level prospect then those guys were and is a significantly higher one than Lewis was.  He wasn't a greater prospect then Len Bias though.  Real shame what happened to him. 

But being a higher lever prospect doesn't mean you will end up a better player or have a better career.

Pierce was projected as a top 3 pick in a really loaded draft. Not sure how we can say Tatum was higher than him. Itís possible it is a wash. I donít know enough about Mchale as a prospect to comment on that one
Pierce was always considered a guy that would be a very good player but he wasn't widely regarded as a future hall of Fame type player. He actually ended up out performing his general prospect level by being a consistent all star level performer that will make the HOF.  Tatum has a much higher ceiling than that, though obviously could also end up no where near that player.

Pierce was considered an all-star prospect I agree, not projected as HOF type. Tatum however wasn't projected as high as LarBrd says he is. In fact a lot of people were questioning if his game will transition in the NBA well, given his penchant for mid-range and lack of elite athleticism and range.
I went back and re-read Tatum's scouting reports and everyone believed he had high level potential on both sides of the ball, though you are correct some questioned how he might fit, but even those said he had a very high floor, they just weren't sure his ceiling.  Tatum though is a physical specimen, and that is why he is a better prospect than Pierce was.  Pierce was never considered a great athlete, which is one of the reasons he fell in the draft.  And there is a difference between being projected at 3 and going 4 then being projected at 3 and going 10.  That is a very long drop for a guy that everyone knew was going to be as good Pierce ended up, which means that everyone didn't know Pierce was going to be that good.  And this wasn't an unknown European thing like Dirk (who Boston would have taken over Pierce if they were both on the board).  The simple reality is Pierce was always considered a guy that would be good, but probably not great.  Tatum was considered a guy that would be good, but could be great.  That makes Tatum a better prospect than Pierce was. 

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1465 on: December 07, 2018, 07:40:09 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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great preview of the likely Eastern Conference Finals tonight with Toronto facing Philly.  Philly looks like they still have a ways to go until they are ready to knock off the Raptors, but by the end of the season they will probably get there.

If season stopped now, I would have to agree with this but it doesn't and we are getting better and will be in the conference finals. My guess is vs. Raptors. We will beat Sixers again the playoffs to get to that Raptors match up is my guess. Pedigree and Coaching wins almost always...we have the edge in both.
Boston will get better as Hayward's health improves.  He still looks like he has a ways to go until his athleticism fully returns, but I'm targeting post all-star break as a time when he can return to a borderline all-star level of play.

Tatum is the greatest prospect we've had since Bird and I'm hopeful he continues to improve as the season goes on.  He SHOULD eventually be an All-NBA level player and that leap can happen rapidly for young players.   So it's fair to speculate that, if fully healthy, Boston will have 3 (4 if you include Horford) star-caliber players.   At this very moment, we're a 1 star team sitting in the 6th seed.

As the season progresses, I think it's fair to expect Boston to move up to the 4th seed.  Maybe 3rd.   The 4th seed would be a tough position to be in, though... it would mean facing the Raptors on the road in Round 2 - and home court is probably going to be be significant. 

Philly has 3 legitimate all-stars right now.  Embiid is on most people's short list as an early MVP favorite.  Redick is having a career year as well.  This group is still extremely new together - so I'd be curious to see how they look in about 20 games, but from a pure talent standpoint, it's hard to say any team has more top-tier talent than Philly right now.  I also think there's another move to be made this season if they want to make it.   If I had to guess, it's their conference to lose this season. 

I also don't think you can sleep on the Bucks.  Giannis is another MVP candidate and Middleton is having an all-star season.  They also have surrounded Giannis with guys who can light it up.  Middleton shoots 42% from three, Brogdon is shooting 49% from three,  Brook Lopez is a sneaky solid addition as he's shooting 37% from three, and Drew Bledsoe is shooting 36% from three.  That makes them dangerous - moreso than last year when it's widely believed their coach totally dropped the ball.   

I got Boston in the mix as one of the 4 teams capable of making the conference finals, but at present Philly is the logical choice to win the conference.  They are going to have to get through Kawhi "New LeBron of the East" Leonard first.

What about McHale? Reggie Lewis? Paul Pierce?
Tatum is a higher level prospect then those guys were and is a significantly higher one than Lewis was.  He wasn't a greater prospect then Len Bias though.  Real shame what happened to him. 

But being a higher lever prospect doesn't mean you will end up a better player or have a better career.

Pierce was projected as a top 3 pick in a really loaded draft. Not sure how we can say Tatum was higher than him. Itís possible it is a wash. I donít know enough about Mchale as a prospect to comment on that one
If Pierce was projected top 3, why'd he drop to 10?

Did you watch that draft or are you just trying to be difficult? It was the talk of the draft

http://m.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2014/jun/20/16-years-later-paul-pierce-falling-to-no/?templates=mobile

Iím really surprised you donít know about this for how much you talk about the 76ers and draft picks every year
How is asking a valid question being difficult?  It wasn't before my time but didn't watch the drafts back then.  Don't even recall them being televised.  It was beyond my level of interest and ability to follow back then.  Not a lot of NBA coverage in Alabama back then.   

BTW, the link you provided said the drop was still a mystery and didn't provide an explanation. 

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1466 on: December 07, 2018, 08:53:16 AM »

Offline Moranis

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great preview of the likely Eastern Conference Finals tonight with Toronto facing Philly.  Philly looks like they still have a ways to go until they are ready to knock off the Raptors, but by the end of the season they will probably get there.

If season stopped now, I would have to agree with this but it doesn't and we are getting better and will be in the conference finals. My guess is vs. Raptors. We will beat Sixers again the playoffs to get to that Raptors match up is my guess. Pedigree and Coaching wins almost always...we have the edge in both.
Boston will get better as Hayward's health improves.  He still looks like he has a ways to go until his athleticism fully returns, but I'm targeting post all-star break as a time when he can return to a borderline all-star level of play.

Tatum is the greatest prospect we've had since Bird and I'm hopeful he continues to improve as the season goes on.  He SHOULD eventually be an All-NBA level player and that leap can happen rapidly for young players.   So it's fair to speculate that, if fully healthy, Boston will have 3 (4 if you include Horford) star-caliber players.   At this very moment, we're a 1 star team sitting in the 6th seed.

As the season progresses, I think it's fair to expect Boston to move up to the 4th seed.  Maybe 3rd.   The 4th seed would be a tough position to be in, though... it would mean facing the Raptors on the road in Round 2 - and home court is probably going to be be significant. 

Philly has 3 legitimate all-stars right now.  Embiid is on most people's short list as an early MVP favorite.  Redick is having a career year as well.  This group is still extremely new together - so I'd be curious to see how they look in about 20 games, but from a pure talent standpoint, it's hard to say any team has more top-tier talent than Philly right now.  I also think there's another move to be made this season if they want to make it.   If I had to guess, it's their conference to lose this season. 

I also don't think you can sleep on the Bucks.  Giannis is another MVP candidate and Middleton is having an all-star season.  They also have surrounded Giannis with guys who can light it up.  Middleton shoots 42% from three, Brogdon is shooting 49% from three,  Brook Lopez is a sneaky solid addition as he's shooting 37% from three, and Drew Bledsoe is shooting 36% from three.  That makes them dangerous - moreso than last year when it's widely believed their coach totally dropped the ball.   

I got Boston in the mix as one of the 4 teams capable of making the conference finals, but at present Philly is the logical choice to win the conference.  They are going to have to get through Kawhi "New LeBron of the East" Leonard first.

What about McHale? Reggie Lewis? Paul Pierce?
Tatum is a higher level prospect then those guys were and is a significantly higher one than Lewis was.  He wasn't a greater prospect then Len Bias though.  Real shame what happened to him. 

But being a higher lever prospect doesn't mean you will end up a better player or have a better career.

Pierce was projected as a top 3 pick in a really loaded draft. Not sure how we can say Tatum was higher than him. Itís possible it is a wash. I donít know enough about Mchale as a prospect to comment on that one
If Pierce was projected top 3, why'd he drop to 10?

Did you watch that draft or are you just trying to be difficult? It was the talk of the draft

http://m.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2014/jun/20/16-years-later-paul-pierce-falling-to-no/?templates=mobile

Iím really surprised you donít know about this for how much you talk about the 76ers and draft picks every year
How is asking a valid question being difficult?  It wasn't before my time but didn't watch the drafts back then.  Don't even recall them being televised.  It was beyond my level of interest and ability to follow back then.  Not a lot of NBA coverage in Alabama back then.   

BTW, the link you provided said the drop was still a mystery and didn't provide an explanation.
Denver thought Pierce was soft.  Many other teams weren't impressed by his measurable.  Larry Brown said the Sixers had made a promise to Hughes and they weren't going to break the promise, but he did have Pierce rated higher (a real problem with making promises to players). 

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1467 on: December 07, 2018, 05:16:37 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Love Tatum, LOVE him, but I'm not ready to say he his "ceiling is significantly higher" than Pierce.  I just don't see enough of a sample size.  IIRC, by Pierce's 2nd year, even Antoine Walker was saying that Pierce was the 'alpha-dog' on the team.

Tatum's "ceiling is significantly higher" than Reggie Lewis too?  I don't see that either.  Reggie was the heir to the throne in the final phase of Bird's career.  He could shoot and had excellent size.

Let's see how Tatum looks in 2 years when he's the same age Pierce was during his second season.   Right now, he's hands down a better prospect than Pierce was at the same age.  It's possible Tatum will never end up as good as Paul became, but he's a genuine superstar prospect and the last time we had a player with genuine superstar potential was Larry Bird. 

And yeah, Tatum is clearly a better prospect than Reggie was.  When Reggie was 2 years older than Tatum, he was averaging 4 points for the Celtics.  Tatum at 20 years old is arguably better than Reggie was in his absolute prime.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1468 on: December 07, 2018, 08:21:02 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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The Top-6 teams in the East currently are Raptors, Bucks, Sixers, Pistons, Pacers, Celtics.

The Sixers have played all those teams (except Pacers) and are a combined 1-4 against them. They are down 68-56 to the Pistons right now at halftime as well.

Boston meanwhile has played down to their competition but against those teams, are a combined 5-2.

Interesting...
Phoenix Suns Mock Trade Deadline Roster
PG: Jones/Melton/Okobo
SG: Booker/Crawford/Daniels
SF: Bridges/Oubre/King
PF: Saric/Gibson/Anderson/Bender/Acy
C: Ayton/Holmes
Future Picks: https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed (+ 2019 Top-5 Protected MIN 1st)

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1469 on: December 07, 2018, 08:32:53 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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The Top-6 teams in the East currently are Raptors, Bucks, Sixers, Pistons, Pacers, Celtics.

The Sixers have played all those teams (except Pacers) and are a combined 1-4 against them. They are down 68-56 to the Pistons right now at halftime as well.

Boston meanwhile has played down to their competition but against those teams, are a combined 5-2.

Interesting...

Itís crazy. I really enjoy watching embiid play and I think Simmons is a really unique talent. But the way the 76ers have been overhyped on this board going back to Noel and okafor has really made it hard for me to enjoy them as an exciting young team. I thought it would die down a bit when we had a gentlemenís sweep against them last year without Irving or Hayward, but I was sadly mistaken. Itís probbaly the thing I find most frustrating on this board (and in general I love larbrd in case anyone was curious )

 

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