Author Topic: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)  (Read 139602 times)

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Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1185 on: November 10, 2018, 11:44:17 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Pretenders not contenders, the Bucks, Celtics and Toronto are all a big notch above them.  Big difference between winning when folks are tanking like they did last year and playing when teams are not.

Yea I think this is a really underrated part of scheduling and records that people don't think about enough. It is easy to think that because teams all play basically the same games if they are in the same conference the schedules are the same but they really are not. If you look around the league right now teams like sac, magic, etc are all trying like heck to win. This was the case last year when teams like the Knicks, Lakers and Magic all got off to good starts. By the end of the year a lot of these teams are terrible and in extreme cases, not even playing their best young guys anymore. The 76ers were incredibly fortunate to play something like 20 of their last 25 games against lottery teams last year and it pumped up their win total by about 4 or 5 over what it would have been with a balanced schedule.
Were they incredibly fortunate to have by far the toughest 1st half schedule?  Personally I'd much prefer to have a more balanced schedule than what they had last season.

Kind of surprised you don't get this tazz. If the bad teams were the same badness throughout the season then, yea, sure you can make an argument. However, the bad teams are actually trying to win in the beginning of the season and are trying to lose at the end of the season. So obviously you are fortunate to play them at times they are trying to lose. The good teams are trying to win throughout the entire year (except maybe the one or two last games when their seeding is locked). It's fairly simple concept and something their own fans routinely admit....
Bad teams are bad teams throughout the year.  They are easy to beat whether they are trying or tanking.  Kind of surprised you don't understand how a heavily front loaded schedule is very difficult for a young team like the Sixers with Simmons starting as PG for the 1st time and Embiid's playing time still being managed.   

Unlike some on here who predicted the Sixers wouldn't make the playoffs before last season, I said that if the Sixers could be close to .500 at the halfway point and Embiid played 60+ games that they'd make the playoffs.  The main reason the weak end of season schedule benefited the Sixers was to get through the last 9 games with Embiid out due to the facial injury. 

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1186 on: November 10, 2018, 12:00:59 PM »

Online Moranis

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Philly is now the 3rd seed in the East (they are tied with Indy, but beat them so have the tiebreaker).  They could also pretty easily win their next 12 games as the best teams they play are Memphis, Utah, and New Orleans (they have both Memphis games in that stretch and Utah and NO visit Philly).  December is much more difficult for them.  I figure they probably go 10-2 before they visit Toronto on December 5th, which would make them 18-7 at that point, which should give them a pretty nice cushion on the 3 seed (both Indy and Boston have more difficult schedule stretches).

Men they won in overtime at home against Charlotte by 1 point after sending it to overtime on a pretty questionable call. I do give them credit for the win against the pacers, which was their best performance of the year.

I'm also a bit perplexed you say they could easily win their next 12 games when they are currently 1-5 on the road and about to go play 4 out of 5 games on the road in 8 nights. Was that serious?
haven't you been harping on schedule? It matters who you play and where. Their toughest games this year have all been on the road hence the poorer record.  The next road games are all much easier opponents

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1187 on: November 10, 2018, 12:17:32 PM »

Online Moranis

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Pretenders not contenders, the Bucks, Celtics and Toronto are all a big notch above them.  Big difference between winning when folks are tanking like they did last year and playing when teams are not.

Yea I think this is a really underrated part of scheduling and records that people don't think about enough. It is easy to think that because teams all play basically the same games if they are in the same conference the schedules are the same but they really are not. If you look around the league right now teams like sac, magic, etc are all trying like heck to win. This was the case last year when teams like the Knicks, Lakers and Magic all got off to good starts. By the end of the year a lot of these teams are terrible and in extreme cases, not even playing their best young guys anymore. The 76ers were incredibly fortunate to play something like 20 of their last 25 games against lottery teams last year and it pumped up their win total by about 4 or 5 over what it would have been with a balanced schedule.
Were they incredibly fortunate to have by far the toughest 1st half schedule?  Personally I'd much prefer to have a more balanced schedule than what they had last season.

Kind of surprised you don't get this tazz. If the bad teams were the same badness throughout the season then, yea, sure you can make an argument. However, the bad teams are actually trying to win in the beginning of the season and are trying to lose at the end of the season. So obviously you are fortunate to play them at times they are trying to lose. The good teams are trying to win throughout the entire year (except maybe the one or two last games when their seeding is locked). It's fairly simple concept and something their own fans routinely admit....
what evidence do you have that shows the teams were all worse at the end of the year?  Someone posted Dallas record in a thread on here and aside from a .500 December, Dallas had basically the same record in all of the other months.  Atlanta was 3-3 in April, but only 1-6 in October. November they won 3, then 6, then 5, then 4, then 2.  So Atlanta was 1, 3, 6, 5, 4, 2, 3.  Didn't really matter when you played the Hawks as they were bad all season long.  Now I will give you the Suns didn't win a game in March, though they did win 2 in April and their March schedule was very difficult.  Memphis was 5-1 and then had a January stretch of 4-1, but was 13-58 the rest of the season with a fairly even win distribution.

There really isn't any evidence to support that the Sixers wouldn't have beaten all of those teams if their schedule was more balanced between good and bad teams.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1188 on: November 10, 2018, 12:22:18 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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6ers are thin.
Not many draft assets anymore.

This is very True. All of their offers for a star now include some combination of Fultz (low trade value, high contract for backup), Saric (nice role player, maybe best off bench) and a Miami first a few years down the line. Tough to get someone good with that offering... They may end up in the nightmare situation of being a treadmill team like the Hawks were for a decade.
How in the world are the Sixers like the Hawks an older workman like team with no top level stars and no real way to get better? 

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1189 on: November 12, 2018, 10:55:20 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Here is an update on fultz. His free throw shooting is looking pretty grim.

https://deadspin.com/markelle-fultz-shooting-form-update-hes-pump-faking-fr-1830396811


In addition, there is also this news.

Alex Kennedy
Alex Kennedy
@AlexKennedyNBA
Markelle Fultz and Drew Hanlen are no longer working together or on speaking terms, according to league sources. No word on why the two parted ways, but their relationship deteriorated about three weeks ago. Prior to this falling out, Fultz spent the summer training with Hanlen.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
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Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1190 on: November 12, 2018, 11:31:31 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Pretenders not contenders, the Bucks, Celtics and Toronto are all a big notch above them.  Big difference between winning when folks are tanking like they did last year and playing when teams are not.

Yea I think this is a really underrated part of scheduling and records that people don't think about enough. It is easy to think that because teams all play basically the same games if they are in the same conference the schedules are the same but they really are not. If you look around the league right now teams like sac, magic, etc are all trying like heck to win. This was the case last year when teams like the Knicks, Lakers and Magic all got off to good starts. By the end of the year a lot of these teams are terrible and in extreme cases, not even playing their best young guys anymore. The 76ers were incredibly fortunate to play something like 20 of their last 25 games against lottery teams last year and it pumped up their win total by about 4 or 5 over what it would have been with a balanced schedule.
Were they incredibly fortunate to have by far the toughest 1st half schedule?  Personally I'd much prefer to have a more balanced schedule than what they had last season.

Kind of surprised you don't get this tazz. If the bad teams were the same badness throughout the season then, yea, sure you can make an argument. However, the bad teams are actually trying to win in the beginning of the season and are trying to lose at the end of the season. So obviously you are fortunate to play them at times they are trying to lose. The good teams are trying to win throughout the entire year (except maybe the one or two last games when their seeding is locked). It's fairly simple concept and something their own fans routinely admit....
what evidence do you have that shows the teams were all worse at the end of the year?  Someone posted Dallas record in a thread on here and aside from a .500 December, Dallas had basically the same record in all of the other months.  Atlanta was 3-3 in April, but only 1-6 in October. November they won 3, then 6, then 5, then 4, then 2.  So Atlanta was 1, 3, 6, 5, 4, 2, 3.  Didn't really matter when you played the Hawks as they were bad all season long.  Now I will give you the Suns didn't win a game in March, though they did win 2 in April and their March schedule was very difficult.  Memphis was 5-1 and then had a January stretch of 4-1, but was 13-58 the rest of the season with a fairly even win distribution.

There really isn't any evidence to support that the Sixers wouldn't have beaten all of those teams if their schedule was more balanced between good and bad teams.

I really don't feel like investing the time to show the Knicks record last year after they lost porzingas, the Suns that you mentioned or why Adam silver called the bulls to discuss their resting plans. The math does get a little fuzzy if you got on raw wins in late months because the teams were playing each other and someone has to win. But Moranis I know you know last year there was hard tanking and I don't think we need to waste either of our time debating it

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1191 on: November 12, 2018, 11:35:33 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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6ers are thin.
Not many draft assets anymore.

This is very True. All of their offers for a star now include some combination of Fultz (low trade value, high contract for backup), Saric (nice role player, maybe best off bench) and a Miami first a few years down the line. Tough to get someone good with that offering... They may end up in the nightmare situation of being a treadmill team like the Hawks were for a decade.
How in the world are the Sixers like the Hawks an older workman like team with no top level stars and no real way to get better?

Go back to Moranis' comment about how it would be a great success if they ended up like the Hawks and the debate that spawned if you are really interested

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1192 on: November 12, 2018, 11:38:07 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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6ers are thin.
Not many draft assets anymore.

This is very True. All of their offers for a star now include some combination of Fultz (low trade value, high contract for backup), Saric (nice role player, maybe best off bench) and a Miami first a few years down the line. Tough to get someone good with that offering... They may end up in the nightmare situation of being a treadmill team like the Hawks were for a decade.
How in the world are the Sixers like the Hawks an older workman like team with no top level stars and no real way to get better?

Go back to Moranis' comment about how it would be a great success if they ended up like the Hawks and the debate that spawned if you are really interested
I'd rather not.  That Hawks team is exactly what the process was trying to avoid. 

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1193 on: November 12, 2018, 11:48:40 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Here is an update on fultz. His free throw shooting is looking pretty grim.

https://deadspin.com/markelle-fultz-shooting-form-update-hes-pump-faking-fr-1830396811


In addition, there is also this news.

Alex Kennedy
Alex Kennedy
@AlexKennedyNBA
Markelle Fultz and Drew Hanlen are no longer working together or on speaking terms, according to league sources. No word on why the two parted ways, but their relationship deteriorated about three weeks ago. Prior to this falling out, Fultz spent the summer training with Hanlen.
I would guess he fired him for tweeting out that fultz was hurt

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1194 on: November 13, 2018, 12:36:43 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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6ers are thin.
Not many draft assets anymore.

This is very True. All of their offers for a star now include some combination of Fultz (low trade value, high contract for backup), Saric (nice role player, maybe best off bench) and a Miami first a few years down the line. Tough to get someone good with that offering... They may end up in the nightmare situation of being a treadmill team like the Hawks were for a decade.
How in the world are the Sixers like the Hawks an older workman like team with no top level stars and no real way to get better?

Go back to Moranis' comment about how it would be a great success if they ended up like the Hawks and the debate that spawned if you are really interested
I'd rather not.  That Hawks team is exactly what the process was trying to avoid.

This is what I said. Thanks for agreeing tazz

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1195 on: November 13, 2018, 02:00:54 AM »

Online Androslav

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This Butler move ended the Process.
Hinkie is rolling over in his grave.

Philly is betting on a long-term future health and chemistry between Butler, Embiid and Simmons. And that is a hard bet to make.

They are still missing players number 5, 6, 7 and 8 and due to their big 3s skillsets these 4 need to be specific players. I don't believe that this regime is able to put it all together.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1196 on: November 13, 2018, 06:10:18 AM »

Online Moranis

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Pretenders not contenders, the Bucks, Celtics and Toronto are all a big notch above them.  Big difference between winning when folks are tanking like they did last year and playing when teams are not.

Yea I think this is a really underrated part of scheduling and records that people don't think about enough. It is easy to think that because teams all play basically the same games if they are in the same conference the schedules are the same but they really are not. If you look around the league right now teams like sac, magic, etc are all trying like heck to win. This was the case last year when teams like the Knicks, Lakers and Magic all got off to good starts. By the end of the year a lot of these teams are terrible and in extreme cases, not even playing their best young guys anymore. The 76ers were incredibly fortunate to play something like 20 of their last 25 games against lottery teams last year and it pumped up their win total by about 4 or 5 over what it would have been with a balanced schedule.
Were they incredibly fortunate to have by far the toughest 1st half schedule?  Personally I'd much prefer to have a more balanced schedule than what they had last season.

Kind of surprised you don't get this tazz. If the bad teams were the same badness throughout the season then, yea, sure you can make an argument. However, the bad teams are actually trying to win in the beginning of the season and are trying to lose at the end of the season. So obviously you are fortunate to play them at times they are trying to lose. The good teams are trying to win throughout the entire year (except maybe the one or two last games when their seeding is locked). It's fairly simple concept and something their own fans routinely admit....
what evidence do you have that shows the teams were all worse at the end of the year?  Someone posted Dallas record in a thread on here and aside from a .500 December, Dallas had basically the same record in all of the other months.  Atlanta was 3-3 in April, but only 1-6 in October. November they won 3, then 6, then 5, then 4, then 2.  So Atlanta was 1, 3, 6, 5, 4, 2, 3.  Didn't really matter when you played the Hawks as they were bad all season long.  Now I will give you the Suns didn't win a game in March, though they did win 2 in April and their March schedule was very difficult.  Memphis was 5-1 and then had a January stretch of 4-1, but was 13-58 the rest of the season with a fairly even win distribution.

There really isn't any evidence to support that the Sixers wouldn't have beaten all of those teams if their schedule was more balanced between good and bad teams.

I really don't feel like investing the time to show the Knicks record last year after they lost porzingas, the Suns that you mentioned or why Adam silver called the bulls to discuss their resting plans. The math does get a little fuzzy if you got on raw wins in late months because the teams were playing each other and someone has to win. But Moranis I know you know last year there was hard tanking and I don't think we need to waste either of our time debating it
The teams were just as bad early in the year as late in the year though.  Obviously an injury like the one to Porzingis changes the equation for teams, but players were also hurt early in the year.  Even then though, the Knicks last 3 wins were Cleveland, Miami, and Washington.  Chicago started 3-20, they finished 7-19.  They had a weird 14-8 stretch in December and January, but otherwise were an awful team all season. 

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1197 on: November 13, 2018, 06:12:21 AM »

Online Moranis

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This Butler move ended the Process.
Hinkie is rolling over in his grave.

Philly is betting on a long-term future health and chemistry between Butler, Embiid and Simmons. And that is a hard bet to make.

They are still missing players number 5, 6, 7 and 8 and due to their big 3s skillsets these 4 need to be specific players. I don't believe that this regime is able to put it all together.
Uh, this is the exact type of think Hinkie envisioned.  Colangelo messed it up by doing things like the Fultz trade, but Brand seems to have it back on track.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1198 on: November 13, 2018, 07:44:18 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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This Butler move ended the Process.
Hinkie is rolling over in his grave.

Philly is betting on a long-term future health and chemistry between Butler, Embiid and Simmons. And that is a hard bet to make.

They are still missing players number 5, 6, 7 and 8 and due to their big 3s skillsets these 4 need to be specific players. I don't believe that this regime is able to put it all together.
Uh, this is the exact type of think Hinkie envisioned.  Colangelo messed it up by doing things like the Fultz trade, but Brand seems to have it back on track.
Acquiring a star like Butler via trade was certainly part of Hinkie's process.  The qualifier is that Butler has the potential to be a 1 year rental which wouldn't be.  Considering where the Sixers are in their stage of development, Hinkie probably would have taken the risk of Butler leaving. 
I like the Butler trade but I think Brand messed up by not picking up the 3rd year option of Korkmaz.   

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1199 on: November 13, 2018, 07:58:52 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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This Butler move ended the Process.
Hinkie is rolling over in his grave.

Philly is betting on a long-term future health and chemistry between Butler, Embiid and Simmons. And that is a hard bet to make.

They are still missing players number 5, 6, 7 and 8 and due to their big 3s skillsets these 4 need to be specific players. I don't believe that this regime is able to put it all together.
As opposed to what?  Hoping Fultz will develop into the 3rd star they need?  Even if he does, it isn't happening soon and there is the potential chemistry issues between him and Simmons.  Hoping they can get a star this offseason before they lose their Max cap space?   That didn't work out last offseason. 

All in all I think it was a pretty easy bet to make.  Saric and Covington are, and will be, role players and role players are replaceable.  They still have the option of signing a star via a trade or free agency this offseason either by letting Butler walk or clearing off some more cap space.  Fultz still could develop into a star or they could get lucky with the Kings pick ending up #1. 

 

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