All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[Moranis]

If losing culture doesn't matter, shouldn't the Sixers just sabotage the team by trading Noel and Covington so they can have a shot at Fultz?

Losing Culture exists, take a look at the Knicks. Take a look at Chicago. Dealing away players for nothing to lose games is what leads to a losing culture. Now if they get a great return then anybody is movable.

What losing culture is not... A young team that plays hard losing games because of talent and inexperience. That's not a losing culture, it's a lack of talent. Once the talent issue improved, so did team performance.

One of the reasons anybody who has used that argument against the Sixers has no idea what they are talking about.

Are you trying to say that the blatantly tanking Sixers of the past three years didn't have a losing culture?

If you're talking about this year, then I agree with you. They're trying to win games, but they're just young and inexperienced, similar to Minny. But if you're saying they didn't have a losing culture the past several years while blatantly tanking, then that's a delusional perspective.

it is the same core group though. How can they be winning now but losing last year if it was a losing cukture?

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

If losing culture doesn't matter, shouldn't the Sixers just sabotage the team by trading Noel and Covington so they can have a shot at Fultz?

Losing Culture exists, take a look at the Knicks. Take a look at Chicago. Dealing away players for nothing to lose games is what leads to a losing culture. Now if they get a great return then anybody is movable.

What losing culture is not... A young team that plays hard losing games because of talent and inexperience. That's not a losing culture, it's a lack of talent. Once the talent issue improved, so did team performance.

One of the reasons anybody who has used that argument against the Sixers has no idea what they are talking about.

Are you trying to say that the blatantly tanking Sixers of the past three years didn't have a losing culture?

If you're talking about this year, then I agree with you. They're trying to win games, but they're just young and inexperienced, similar to Minny. But if you're saying they didn't have a losing culture the past several years while blatantly tanking, then that's a delusional perspective.

Nothing has changed performance this year but Embiid...

The guys who've spearheaded this tun are the same guys who won 10 games last year plus two run of the mill journeymen FA.

They didn't have a losing culture, they were going to be bad. They knew that, they knew that the fastest way to return to competitiveness was not to freak out like idiots and spend 70 million dollars on the Greg Monroe, Joakim Noah, Tobias Harris types. So they tradedguys who wouldn't be there long term for draft picks and played their young guys.

How that's more of a losing culture than Ainge in 2014, the Warriors in 2012, Minny letting Mark Madsen shoot 7 threes, Pat Riely openly admitting he's trying to lose, etc.

It's nonsense, losing culture is when players start playing selfishly and turning on each other to the detriment of the team. That never happened in Philly.

[LarBrd33]

It was never a "losing culture".  It was an injury culture.   Now they are a little healthy and looking good.  Imagine if they ever get fully healthy.  Oof.

[jpotter33]

If losing culture doesn't matter, shouldn't the Sixers just sabotage the team by trading Noel and Covington so they can have a shot at Fultz?

Losing Culture exists, take a look at the Knicks. Take a look at Chicago. Dealing away players for nothing to lose games is what leads to a losing culture. Now if they get a great return then anybody is movable.

What losing culture is not... A young team that plays hard losing games because of talent and inexperience. That's not a losing culture, it's a lack of talent. Once the talent issue improved, so did team performance.

One of the reasons anybody who has used that argument against the Sixers has no idea what they are talking about.

Are you trying to say that the blatantly tanking Sixers of the past three years didn't have a losing culture?

If you're talking about this year, then I agree with you. They're trying to win games, but they're just young and inexperienced, similar to Minny. But if you're saying they didn't have a losing culture the past several years while blatantly tanking, then that's a delusional perspective.

it is the same core group though. How can they be winning now but losing last year if it was a losing cukture?

Same core group? Their top five guys right now are probably: Embiid, Ilyasova, Saric, Covington, and Noel (not that particular order). Three of those top five guys weren't there last year. That's a big difference.

New rotation players: Embiid, Ilyasova, Saric, TLC, Henderson, Rodriguez, Bayless (though he hasn't really played)

Rotation players from last year still here: Noel, Okafor (can you even consider him?), Covington,  McConnell, Stauskas,

More than half of the rotation is just now playing this year, so how is that the same basic core? lol

The management, and maybe even coaching, created the losing culture the last several years by stripping them of any chance to win by not getting them actual talent and forcing lineups that clearly didn't work, i.e. Noel and Okafor.

But surprise, surprise, the year they actually stop trying to actively tank and actually play to develop players and win, they look like a respectable team. It's not that difficult to see.

[jpotter33]

If losing culture doesn't matter, shouldn't the Sixers just sabotage the team by trading Noel and Covington so they can have a shot at Fultz?

Losing Culture exists, take a look at the Knicks. Take a look at Chicago. Dealing away players for nothing to lose games is what leads to a losing culture. Now if they get a great return then anybody is movable.

What losing culture is not... A young team that plays hard losing games because of talent and inexperience. That's not a losing culture, it's a lack of talent. Once the talent issue improved, so did team performance.

One of the reasons anybody who has used that argument against the Sixers has no idea what they are talking about.

Are you trying to say that the blatantly tanking Sixers of the past three years didn't have a losing culture?

If you're talking about this year, then I agree with you. They're trying to win games, but they're just young and inexperienced, similar to Minny. But if you're saying they didn't have a losing culture the past several years while blatantly tanking, then that's a delusional perspective.

Nothing has changed performance this year but Embiid...

The guys who've spearheaded this tun are the same guys who won 10 games last year plus two run of the mill journeymen FA.

They didn't have a losing culture, they were going to be bad. They knew that, they knew that the fastest way to return to competitiveness was not to freak out like idiots and spend 70 million dollars on the Greg Monroe, Joakim Noah, Tobias Harris types. So they tradedguys who wouldn't be there long term for draft picks and played their young guys.

How that's more of a losing culture than Ainge in 2014, the Warriors in 2012, Minny letting Mark Madsen shoot 7 threes, Pat Riely openly admitting he's trying to lose, etc.

It's nonsense, losing culture is when players start playing selfishly and turning on each other to the detriment of the team. That never happened in Philly.

Yeah, no it's not. See the post above. More than half of your rotation was just brought in this year, several of them after injury or coming over from overseas - both of which were known factors when those players were selected, you know, since they were blatantly tanking before bringing them over.

[jpotter33]

It was never a "losing culture".  It was an injury culture.   Now they are a little healthy and looking good.  Imagine if they ever get fully healthy.  Oof.

Lol horsecrap.

You can't claim an "injury culture" when you PURPOSEFULLY draft a player that's hurt in order to tank for draft picks; when you PURPOSEFULLY hold a promising rookie out his entire rookie year, even when he was begging to play, to tank for draft picks; when you PURPOSEFULLY draft foreign players that can't come over for several years in order to tank for draft picks until then.

The whole "Trust the Process" narrative was about dealing with the losing culture for the rewards that come after, and half of your fans embrace this narrative as some sort of "badge of honor" for having to DEAL WITH THAT LOSING CULTURE for several years.

[cltc5]

It was never a "losing culture".  It was an injury culture.   Now they are a little healthy and looking good.  Imagine if they ever get fully healthy.  Oof.

Lol horsecrap.

You can't claim an "injury culture" when you PURPOSEFULLY draft a player that's hurt in order to tank for draft picks; when you PURPOSEFULLY hold a promising rookie out his entire rookie year, even when he was begging to play, to tank for draft picks; when you PURPOSEFULLY draft foreign players that can't come over for several years in order to tank for draft picks until then.

The whole "Trust the Process" narrative was about dealing with the losing culture for the rewards that come after, and half of your fans embrace this narrative as some sort of "badge of honor" for having to DEAL WITH THAT LOSING CULTURE for several years.

Rather do that than get bounced out of the playoffs every year with a mediocre team year after year and hope to piece meal a team together like the Celtics do year after year

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

It was never a "losing culture".  It was an injury culture.   Now they are a little healthy and looking good.  Imagine if they ever get fully healthy.  Oof.

Lol horsecrap.

You can't claim an "injury culture" when you PURPOSEFULLY draft a player that's hurt in order to tank for draft picks; when you PURPOSEFULLY hold a promising rookie out his entire rookie year, even when he was begging to play, to tank for draft picks; when you PURPOSEFULLY draft foreign players that can't come over for several years in order to tank for draft picks until then.

The whole "Trust the Process" narrative was about dealing with the losing culture for the rewards that come after, and half of your fans embrace this narrative as some sort of "badge of honor" for having to DEAL WITH THAT LOSING CULTURE for several years.

They didn't purposely draft injured players for draft picks. Embiid and Noel were the #1 guys in their respective classes before their injuries.

Trust the Process was about the rebuilding process, part of which was tanking. That's got nothing to do with a toxic losing culture.

Losing and losing culture aren't the same thing. Neither are winning and winning culture. Do you think the Shaq and Kobe Lakers had a winning culture? Please.

It's also pretty funny how none of this ever gets brought up in relation to the C's in these parts.

[LilRip]

It was never a "losing culture".  It was an injury culture.   Now they are a little healthy and looking good.  Imagine if they ever get fully healthy.  Oof.

Lol horsecrap.

You can't claim an "injury culture" when you PURPOSEFULLY draft a player that's hurt in order to tank for draft picks; when you PURPOSEFULLY hold a promising rookie out his entire rookie year, even when he was begging to play, to tank for draft picks; when you PURPOSEFULLY draft foreign players that can't come over for several years in order to tank for draft picks until then.

The whole "Trust the Process" narrative was about dealing with the losing culture for the rewards that come after, and half of your fans embrace this narrative as some sort of "badge of honor" for having to DEAL WITH THAT LOSING CULTURE for several years.

IMO, that's management that's tanking. The players played hard.

When you have guys quitting and taking plays off or playing just to get numbers or paid, that's losing culture. What Jimmy Butler and Wade were describing to the media (not saying they were right), that's losing culture. Remember the Knicks with Marbury, Francis, Randolph when Zeke was the GM? They were winning (8th seed I think?) but they had a losing culture. The Sixers in recent years weren't like that. They just didn't have enough talent.

[tazzmaniac]

It was never a "losing culture".  It was an injury culture.   Now they are a little healthy and looking good.  Imagine if they ever get fully healthy.  Oof.

Lol horsecrap.

You can't claim an "injury culture" when you PURPOSEFULLY draft a player that's hurt in order to tank for draft picks; when you PURPOSEFULLY hold a promising rookie out his entire rookie year, even when he was begging to play, to tank for draft picks; when you PURPOSEFULLY draft foreign players that can't come over for several years in order to tank for draft picks until then.

The whole "Trust the Process" narrative was about dealing with the losing culture for the rewards that come after, and half of your fans embrace this narrative as some sort of "badge of honor" for having to DEAL WITH THAT LOSING CULTURE for several years.

Losing does not equate to losing culture.  Hinkie put together teams that were limited in experience and talent but they played hard.  They were 12th defensively in 2014/15 with MCW, Noel and a bunch of D Leaguers.  After 2 seasons of missing out on the worst record and #1 pick, Hinkie tanked hard putting together some of the worst PG play ever but they still played hard. 

What promising rookie did they hold out their rookie season?  Noel and Embiid were injured their 1st season.  Okafor played his 1st season until he got injured.  Saric was the only foreign player Hinkie drafted with a 1st round pick. 

[cltc5]

3 years ago majority of this board whined and beat their chest about us not creating a losing culture.  A smokescreen excuse to make you feel good is all it is.  Philly did it right.   They got stars and built around them.  We got mediocre players and no stars.  Nice work ainge.  Thank go we're in the playoffs and losing every year with our winning culture

[Celtics18]

Joel Embiid has been impressive--very, very impressive.  That's undeniable.  But, the reports proclaiming Hinkie's "process" a slam dunk victory are premature.  Having a young stud like Embiid doesn't come close to ensuring that your team will be competing for titles year in and year out.

They've still got work to do.  I'm highly skeptical that the Sixers will reach an NBA final within the next decade.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

They've still got work to do.  I'm highly skeptical that the Sixers will reach an NBA final within the next decade.

I would say both of those statements apply to both Philly and Boston... And every other team not named Cleveland or Golden State.

[Ogaju]

The best thing about tanking is if it succeeds you can revise history and deny you ever tanked as can be seen in this thread. It is a PROCESS.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

The best thing about tanking is if it succeeds you can revise history and deny you ever tanked as can be seen in this thread. It is a PROCESS.

Not really, both the Sixers and Celtics tanked. Just don't think tanking equates a losing culture. It can, in certain circumstances, but don't think either Bos/Philly was one of them.