Sixers (9-24) at Celtics (21-14) Game #36 1/6/17

[MBunge]

Welp.  On the one hand, good teams beat bad teams even when the good team plays a good bit of the game like hot garbage.  On the other hand, there's really no excuse to struggle against a roster as bad as Philly's when you've had a couple days of rest.

Mike

With Embiid and Noel they're a terrible match up for us...

And if Embiid had 40 or Noel had 12 blocks, that might explain them giving us a tough time.  But Embiid had just 23 and 8 while Noel had 13 pts, 8 board and 3 blocks.  If that's all they do, this Celtics team shouldn't have to work that hard to beat Philly.

Mike

Just 23 points? He played 26 minutes.

They got 36 points, 16 rebounds and 51 minutes of elite defensive play from their two centers.

That's pretty darn good...

I didn't say it wasn't good, just that this Philly team is really bad outside Embiid, Noel and occasionally Saric or Okafor.  A team as good as we are supposed to be shouldn't struggle to beat them unless one or more of those guys has a monster night.

Mike

[Granath]

Welp.  On the one hand, good teams beat bad teams even when the good team plays a good bit of the game like hot garbage.  On the other hand, there's really no excuse to struggle against a roster as bad as Philly's when you've had a couple days of rest.

Mike

With Embiid and Noel they're a terrible match up for us...

And if Embiid had 40 or Noel had 12 blocks, that might explain them giving us a tough time.  But Embiid had just 23 and 8 while Noel had 13 pts, 8 board and 3 blocks.  If that's all they do, this Celtics team shouldn't have to work that hard to beat Philly.

Mike

No, they shouldn't. They played listless ball in the first half and dug themselves a hole. They managed to get out of it (barely) in the second half.

They had 11 TOs before halftime. That's about their average for an entire game. They were out rebounded by about 7-8 boards before half. The Sixers had more assists, fewer TOs, a much better shooting percentage, etc. The Cs played poorly - probably their worst half of basketball all season IMO.

They finished the game -7 boards which means they basically played even in that area in the second half. Turnovers went down to 6 and they forced around 9 or 10. The defense clamped down, shot the ball a little better (but not incredibly so) and simply played better all the way around. That's why they were +15 in the second half.

[LarBrd33]

Welp.  On the one hand, good teams beat bad teams even when the good team plays a good bit of the game like hot garbage.  On the other hand, there's really no excuse to struggle against a roster as bad as Philly's when you've had a couple days of rest.

Mike

With Embiid and Noel they're a terrible match up for us...

And if Embiid had 40 or Noel had 12 blocks, that might explain them giving us a tough time.  But Embiid had just 23 and 8 while Noel had 13 pts, 8 board and 3 blocks.  If that's all they do, this Celtics team shouldn't have to work that hard to beat Philly.

Mike

Just 23 points? He played 26 minutes.

They got 36 points, 16 rebounds and 51 minutes of elite defensive play from their two centers.

That's pretty darn good...

I didn't say it wasn't good, just that this Philly team is really bad outside Embiid, Noel and occasionally Saric or Okafor.  A team as good as we are supposed to be shouldn't struggle to beat them unless one or more of those guys has a monster night.

Mike

We're soon to be overloaded with guards (top 3 in this draft apparently are PGs and something like 7 of the top 10 players are guards).   Philly obviously has too many bigs.   Marcus Smart for Dario Saric... which team says no? 

Marcus Per-36:  11.5 points, 5.1 assists, 4.6 rebounds with 36%/29%/73% shooting.   
Dario's Per-36: 14.1 points, 2.5 assists, 8.8 rebounds with 39%/34%/78% shooting. 

Dario's only played 33 games in the NBA though, he could presumably get significantly better.  He looks like someone who will develop into an excellent shooter.  He'd slot in well for us long-term at PF.   Marcus is showing some mild improvement in Year 3, but come this Summer he might see his minutes cut dramatically to make room for one of the better PGs incoming.  Also, despite being equal tier prospects drafted the same year, I don't think Dario hits restricted free agency until Summer 2020.   Seems like a win/win. 

[tazzmaniac]

Great game.  Got the win.  Fun to see that Philly team in their infancy holding their own without one of their two franchise players on the court and the other one on a minute restriction.  Still can't imagine how scary they'll be if they get that Laker pick and add two more franchise players this Summer. 

Big game for Noel's trade value, too.  I wonder if they are pausing on the idea of trading him or if they were showcasing him for Danny.

Part of me wanted us to let Philly win this one so they could add some distance over Brooklyn.  This draft is our chance to add a franchise player too.

With Simmons and Embiid, they don't need to add two more "franchise players".  Four stars would be harder to manage than 4 centers.  I think their optimal outcome would be to get Fultz (star potential but good fit with Simmons and Embiid) and Anunoby (good 3 and excellent D). 

[jambr380]

LB, you are going to have a number of people thinking you are just baiting them with the Saric/Smart trade idea. Not that Saric won't be a very serviceable NBA player, but Smart means so much more to our team than just stats.

I think I would like to hold off on a Smart trade that marginally improves our front court until after things pan out with roster (trades/FA signings). We may very possibly have a shortage of guards before we know it.

[Bostoncelticsforlife7]

Another struggle against Philly.  They are going to be a very good team soon if Embiid stays healthy.   Great shooting by Al tonight.   

Philly really altered IT's game tonight.

Despite IT's recent offensive accomplishments, this game serves as a reminder as to how his size is a huge limitation.

It was just an off night for IT nothing to do with his size. I'm sure every point guard 5'9 or 6'5 is going to struggle finishing in the paint against a team that plays Embiid and Noel together.

[tazzmaniac]

Welp.  On the one hand, good teams beat bad teams even when the good team plays a good bit of the game like hot garbage.  On the other hand, there's really no excuse to struggle against a roster as bad as Philly's when you've had a couple days of rest.

Mike

With Embiid and Noel they're a terrible match up for us...

And if Embiid had 40 or Noel had 12 blocks, that might explain them giving us a tough time.  But Embiid had just 23 and 8 while Noel had 13 pts, 8 board and 3 blocks.  If that's all they do, this Celtics team shouldn't have to work that hard to beat Philly.

Mike

Just 23 points? He played 26 minutes.

They got 36 points, 16 rebounds and 51 minutes of elite defensive play from their two centers.

That's pretty darn good...

I didn't say it wasn't good, just that this Philly team is really bad outside Embiid, Noel and occasionally Saric or Okafor.  A team as good as we are supposed to be shouldn't struggle to beat them unless one or more of those guys has a monster night.

Mike

We're soon to be overloaded with guards (top 3 in this draft apparently are PGs and something like 7 of the top 10 players are guards).   Philly obviously has too many bigs.   Marcus Smart for Dario Saric... which team says no? 

Marcus Per-36:  11.5 points, 5.1 assists, 4.6 rebounds with 36%/29%/73% shooting.   
Dario's Per-36: 14.1 points, 2.5 assists, 8.8 rebounds with 39%/34%/78% shooting. 

Dario's only played 33 games in the NBA though, he could presumably get significantly better.  He looks like someone who will develop into an excellent shooter.  He'd slot in well for us long-term at PF.   Marcus is showing some mild improvement in Year 3, but come this Summer he might see his minutes cut dramatically to make room for one of the better PGs incoming.  Also, despite being equal tier prospects drafted the same year, I don't think Dario hits restricted free agency until Summer 2020.   Seems like a win/win.

The Sixers wouldn't want Smart.  His terrible 3pt shooting makes him a lousy fit for Simmons.  They need long lean 3 and D guys who can run the court.   

[jpotter33]

Great game.  Got the win.  Fun to see that Philly team in their infancy holding their own without one of their two franchise players on the court and the other one on a minute restriction.  Still can't imagine how scary they'll be if they get that Laker pick and add two more franchise players this Summer. 

Big game for Noel's trade value, too.  I wonder if they are pausing on the idea of trading him or if they were showcasing him for Danny.

Part of me wanted us to let Philly win this one so they could add some distance over Brooklyn.  This draft is our chance to add a franchise player too.

LOL Okafor being considered a "franchise player"

[LarBrd33]

Welp.  On the one hand, good teams beat bad teams even when the good team plays a good bit of the game like hot garbage.  On the other hand, there's really no excuse to struggle against a roster as bad as Philly's when you've had a couple days of rest.

Mike

With Embiid and Noel they're a terrible match up for us...

And if Embiid had 40 or Noel had 12 blocks, that might explain them giving us a tough time.  But Embiid had just 23 and 8 while Noel had 13 pts, 8 board and 3 blocks.  If that's all they do, this Celtics team shouldn't have to work that hard to beat Philly.

Mike

Just 23 points? He played 26 minutes.

They got 36 points, 16 rebounds and 51 minutes of elite defensive play from their two centers.

That's pretty darn good...

I didn't say it wasn't good, just that this Philly team is really bad outside Embiid, Noel and occasionally Saric or Okafor.  A team as good as we are supposed to be shouldn't struggle to beat them unless one or more of those guys has a monster night.

Mike

We're soon to be overloaded with guards (top 3 in this draft apparently are PGs and something like 7 of the top 10 players are guards).   Philly obviously has too many bigs.   Marcus Smart for Dario Saric... which team says no? 

Marcus Per-36:  11.5 points, 5.1 assists, 4.6 rebounds with 36%/29%/73% shooting.   
Dario's Per-36: 14.1 points, 2.5 assists, 8.8 rebounds with 39%/34%/78% shooting. 

Dario's only played 33 games in the NBA though, he could presumably get significantly better.  He looks like someone who will develop into an excellent shooter.  He'd slot in well for us long-term at PF.   Marcus is showing some mild improvement in Year 3, but come this Summer he might see his minutes cut dramatically to make room for one of the better PGs incoming.  Also, despite being equal tier prospects drafted the same year, I don't think Dario hits restricted free agency until Summer 2020.   Seems like a win/win.

The Sixers wouldn't want Smart.  His terrible 3pt shooting makes him a lousy fit for Simmons.  They need long lean 3 and D guys who can run the court.

Yeah.  The shooting is a problem.  But I think we need to be open to moving Smart.  There's still a chance he breaks out, but we haven't seen much improvement in his biggest weakness (shooting) and if that Nets pick ends up conveying in the Top 3, we'll be looking at our elite prospect draft pick getting Smart's minutes, Smart getting Rozier's minutes, and Rozier getting DNPs.   We'll basically be in the same position Philly is in right now... with a disgruntled Marcus Smart getting minimal minutes behind better players in a contract year.   

[jpotter33]

Welp.  On the one hand, good teams beat bad teams even when the good team plays a good bit of the game like hot garbage.  On the other hand, there's really no excuse to struggle against a roster as bad as Philly's when you've had a couple days of rest.

Mike

With Embiid and Noel they're a terrible match up for us...

And if Embiid had 40 or Noel had 12 blocks, that might explain them giving us a tough time.  But Embiid had just 23 and 8 while Noel had 13 pts, 8 board and 3 blocks.  If that's all they do, this Celtics team shouldn't have to work that hard to beat Philly.

Mike

Wow.  Nice stats.  Those guys were amazing tonight.  It will be interesting to see how they look when those two guys are fully recovered from their injuries.  Minutes restrictions and foul trouble limited them (thankfully).   Per 36 Embiid put up 32 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks tonight... while Noel had 19 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 4 blocks.  Outstanding performances.   They actually look like they can play together.  Maybe they should keep experimenting with them before rushing to make a short-sighted trade.

Where are you getting this stuff from? lol They hardly played together at all - a couple minutes top. The reason they were as successful as they were is because they were ALTERNATED to always have a good center out there on the court. Embiid has already complained about having to play the PF position offensively with Okafor, and the same would be true with Noel.

Besides, Simmons is their long-term starting 4 anyways, so there's no reason to even try it.

[LarBrd33]

Great game.  Got the win.  Fun to see that Philly team in their infancy holding their own without one of their two franchise players on the court and the other one on a minute restriction.  Still can't imagine how scary they'll be if they get that Laker pick and add two more franchise players this Summer. 

Big game for Noel's trade value, too.  I wonder if they are pausing on the idea of trading him or if they were showcasing him for Danny.

Part of me wanted us to let Philly win this one so they could add some distance over Brooklyn.  This draft is our chance to add a franchise player too.

LOL Okafor being considered a "franchise player"

[LarBrd33]

Welp.  On the one hand, good teams beat bad teams even when the good team plays a good bit of the game like hot garbage.  On the other hand, there's really no excuse to struggle against a roster as bad as Philly's when you've had a couple days of rest.

Mike

With Embiid and Noel they're a terrible match up for us...

And if Embiid had 40 or Noel had 12 blocks, that might explain them giving us a tough time.  But Embiid had just 23 and 8 while Noel had 13 pts, 8 board and 3 blocks.  If that's all they do, this Celtics team shouldn't have to work that hard to beat Philly.

Mike

Wow.  Nice stats.  Those guys were amazing tonight.  It will be interesting to see how they look when those two guys are fully recovered from their injuries.  Minutes restrictions and foul trouble limited them (thankfully).   Per 36 Embiid put up 32 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks tonight... while Noel had 19 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 4 blocks.  Outstanding performances.   They actually look like they can play together.  Maybe they should keep experimenting with them before rushing to make a short-sighted trade.

Where are you getting this stuff from?

I watched the basketball game.

[jpotter33]

Welp.  On the one hand, good teams beat bad teams even when the good team plays a good bit of the game like hot garbage.  On the other hand, there's really no excuse to struggle against a roster as bad as Philly's when you've had a couple days of rest.

Mike

With Embiid and Noel they're a terrible match up for us...

And if Embiid had 40 or Noel had 12 blocks, that might explain them giving us a tough time.  But Embiid had just 23 and 8 while Noel had 13 pts, 8 board and 3 blocks.  If that's all they do, this Celtics team shouldn't have to work that hard to beat Philly.

Mike

Wow.  Nice stats.  Those guys were amazing tonight.  It will be interesting to see how they look when those two guys are fully recovered from their injuries.  Minutes restrictions and foul trouble limited them (thankfully).   Per 36 Embiid put up 32 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks tonight... while Noel had 19 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 4 blocks.  Outstanding performances.   They actually look like they can play together.  Maybe they should keep experimenting with them before rushing to make a short-sighted trade.

Where are you getting this stuff from?

I watched the basketball game.

You obviously didn't, because they hardly played together...

Game play by play:

12:00 1st Quarter - Embiid starts the game

7:03 1st Quarter - Noel enters the game for Embiid

2:47 1st Quarter - Embiid enters the game for Covington

0:00 1st Quarter - Noel subs out in between quarters

9:08 2nd Quarter - Noel enters the game for Embiid

3:28 2nd Quarter - Embiid enters the game for Noel

8:22 3rd Quarter - Noel enters the game for Embiid

3:15 3rd Quarter - Embiid enters the game for Noel

0:41 3rd Quarter - Noel enters the game for Embiid

5:45 - Embiid enters the game for Noel

0:06 - Embiid fouls out

0:02 - Noel enters game for Stauskas

They literally played 2:47 together...

[LarBrd33]

Welp.  On the one hand, good teams beat bad teams even when the good team plays a good bit of the game like hot garbage.  On the other hand, there's really no excuse to struggle against a roster as bad as Philly's when you've had a couple days of rest.

Mike

With Embiid and Noel they're a terrible match up for us...

And if Embiid had 40 or Noel had 12 blocks, that might explain them giving us a tough time.  But Embiid had just 23 and 8 while Noel had 13 pts, 8 board and 3 blocks.  If that's all they do, this Celtics team shouldn't have to work that hard to beat Philly.

Mike

Wow.  Nice stats.  Those guys were amazing tonight.  It will be interesting to see how they look when those two guys are fully recovered from their injuries.  Minutes restrictions and foul trouble limited them (thankfully).   Per 36 Embiid put up 32 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks tonight... while Noel had 19 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 4 blocks.  Outstanding performances.   They actually look like they can play together.  Maybe they should keep experimenting with them before rushing to make a short-sighted trade.

Where are you getting this stuff from?

I watched the basketball game.

You obviously didn't, because they hardly played together...

In the few minutes they played tonight they looked like they could play together.  Same reaction I had watching them play in their previous game.   I explained to everyone here months ago that a logical approach to dealing with the big man log jam was to have patience and wait closer to the trade deadline.  They needed to experiment with lineups, try playing Embiid with Okafor, try playing Embiid with Noel, figure out what their greatest weaknesses were, consider what their 2017 draft position might be and which players will be available, and at some point maybe even see how Simmons changes the dynamic before doing ANYTHING.  People kept responding with "no, they need to trade one of them now".   Now here we are in January and just like I said, they haven't traded one of them.  Just like I said, they spent a handful of games experimenting with playing Embiid and Okafor together.  And now, finally, we are seeing them experimenting with playing Noel and Embiid together.  It's obviously a new thing the team is experimenting with.  They haven't practiced much yet.   But it's been an interesting look so far.  Defensively, they seemed to make up for each others mistakes.  Offensively, it didn't seem to hurt them much.   

I fully expect they will trade one or both of Noel and Okafor, but this is playing out pretty much exactly as I anticipated.   When you're dealing with prospects like that, you dont' want to rush to trade away one before really taking your time to evaluate what you have.  They couldn't make a proper analysis of the situation without experimentation.   It'll be interesting to see what they ultimately decide to do and whether or not this latest Noel/Embiid experiment fails.   If Noel keeps playing like this, his trade value will make a significant leap and Philly might finally get an acceptable offer.  But if he keeps playing like this, they might decide it's best to just keep him.   

[saltlover]

Welp.  On the one hand, good teams beat bad teams even when the good team plays a good bit of the game like hot garbage.  On the other hand, there's really no excuse to struggle against a roster as bad as Philly's when you've had a couple days of rest.

Mike

With Embiid and Noel they're a terrible match up for us...

And if Embiid had 40 or Noel had 12 blocks, that might explain them giving us a tough time.  But Embiid had just 23 and 8 while Noel had 13 pts, 8 board and 3 blocks.  If that's all they do, this Celtics team shouldn't have to work that hard to beat Philly.

Mike

Wow.  Nice stats.  Those guys were amazing tonight.  It will be interesting to see how they look when those two guys are fully recovered from their injuries.  Minutes restrictions and foul trouble limited them (thankfully).   Per 36 Embiid put up 32 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks tonight... while Noel had 19 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 4 blocks.  Outstanding performances.   They actually look like they can play together.  Maybe they should keep experimenting with them before rushing to make a short-sighted trade.

Where are you getting this stuff from?

I watched the basketball game.

You obviously didn't, because they hardly played together...

In the few minutes they played tonight they looked like they could play together.  Same reaction I had watching them play in their previous game.   I explained to everyone here months ago that a logical approach to dealing with the big man log jam was to have patience and wait closer to the trade deadline.  They needed to experiment with lineups, try playing Embiid with Okafor, try playing Embiid with Noel, figure out what their greatest weaknesses were, consider what their 2017 draft position might be and which players will be available, and at some point maybe even see how Simmons changes the dynamic before doing ANYTHING.  People kept responding with "no, they need to trade one of them now".   Now here we are in January and just like I said, they haven't traded one of them.  Just like I said, they spent a handful of games experimenting with playing Embiid and Okafor together.  And now, finally, we are seeing them experimenting with playing Noel and Embiid together.  It's obviously a new thing the team is experimenting with.  They haven't practiced much yet.   But it's been an interesting look so far.  Defensively, they seemed to make up for each others mistakes.  Offensively, it didn't seem to hurt them much.   

I fully expect to trade one or both of Noel and Okafor, but this is playing out pretty much exactly as I anticipated.   When you're dealing with prospects like that, you dont' want to rush to trade away one before really taking your time to evaluate what you have.  They couldn't make a proper analysis of the situation without experimentation.   It'll be interesting to see what they ultimately decide to do and whether or not this latest Noel/Embiid experiment fails.   If Noel keeps playing like this, his trade value will make a significant leap and Philly might finally get an acceptable offer.  But if he keeps playing like this, they might decide it's best to just keep him.

Entering tonight they'd played all of 5 minutes together all season.  Please get over yourself.