Would you give up Smart for Millsap? I would (Poll)

[Quetzalcoatl]

Milsap:

1.) Won't win us a title

2.) Will get a max contract this summer, which could give him just under $50 million in his final year

3.) Played with Horford the last couple years and they were great during the regular season, then his size got exposed in the playoffs and they couldn't make a run

4.) Is already 32 years old

5.) Is 6'8" and a sub .333% 3 pt shooter

So why would anyone want him?  What is the point?  To win like 5 more games in the regular season?  We'd be maxed out after that, it's a terrible idea.

[tankcity!]

Milsap:

1.) Won't win us a title

2.) Will get a max contract this summer, which could give him just under $50 million in his final year

3.) Played with Horford the last couple years and they were great during the regular season, then his size got exposed in the playoffs and they couldn't make a run

4.) Is already 32 years old

5.) Is 6'8" and a sub .333% 3 pt shooter

So why would anyone want him?  What is the point?  To win like 5 more games in the regular season?  We'd be maxed out after that, it's a terrible idea.

Music to my ears. TP

[saltlover]

Milsap:

1.) Won't win us a title

2.) Will get a max contract this summer, which could give him just under $50 million in his final year

3.) Played with Horford the last couple years and they were great during the regular season, then his size got exposed in the playoffs and they couldn't make a run

4.) Is already 32 years old

5.) Is 6'8" and a sub .333% 3 pt shooter

So why would anyone want him?  What is the point?  To win like 5 more games in the regular season?  We'd be maxed out after that, it's a terrible idea.

Milsap will not get a max contract with max raises for 5 years this summer.  Not remotely happening.  I can see him getting a lot of money, but no one is going to look at Milsap and say "he should be the highest paid player in the game for the rest of his contract."  And that's what would happen if given a max, because with max raises, his future salaries would be higher than a year 1 max in a future year due to the cap not likely increasing much the next couple of seasons, and especially not by 7.5%, which is what that insanely high number you've quote requires (and based on current projections, that number is betwen $46-47 million, not $50 million.)

[tankcity!]

Milsap:

1.) Won't win us a title

2.) Will get a max contract this summer, which could give him just under $50 million in his final year

3.) Played with Horford the last couple years and they were great during the regular season, then his size got exposed in the playoffs and they couldn't make a run

4.) Is already 32 years old

5.) Is 6'8" and a sub .333% 3 pt shooter

So why would anyone want him?  What is the point?  To win like 5 more games in the regular season?  We'd be maxed out after that, it's a terrible idea.

Milsap will not get a max contract with max raises for 5 years this summer.  Not remotely happening.  I can see him getting a lot of money, but no one is going to look at Milsap and say "he should be the highest paid player in the game for the rest of his contract."  And that's what would happen if given a max, because with max raises, his future salaries would be higher than a year 1 max in a future year due to the cap not likely increasing much the next couple of seasons, and especially not by 7.5%, which is what that insanely high number you've quote requires (and based on current projections, that number is betwen $46-47 million, not $50 million.)

Did it make sense to offer Horford the max? Have you seen the money that has been thrown around out there. I mean he's at least going to be offered $25M per year and I think I'll pass.

[BitterJim]

Adding Millsap for Smart would make Boston a lot better because it would balance the team a lot better.  And Millsap has a higher TRB% than any big man on the Celtics and that is with him sharing the floor with Howard who is still one of the best rebounders in the game.  He would instantly be Boston's best rebounder and it wouldn't be all that close. 

I'd rather take minutes away from Zeller, Jerekbo, Olynyk and Johnson and give them to Millsap then have Smart play instead of Rozier and Brown (who would get Smart's minutes).  Boston is a significantly better team with Millsap than it is with Smart, it isn't close at all.

This is silly. If he is such an impact player, why is Atlanta worse from last year? They have Howard who is having a great year and yet their record is 500. Hmm....Your comment isn't adding up. Seems like every year a player becomes available and because there is no other players available, writers start to hype the available player up just for clicks.

Milsap is so overrated. Clearly Horford is better since he is the piece they lost from last year.

I feel compelled to note that the Hawks also lost their starting PG.  While Schroeder was the heir apparent, he's a small step down from the last couple of seasons of Jeff Teague.  Furthermore, their new backup PG, Malcolm Delaney, has been terrible.  We should all wish for him to go to Brooklyn.

Moranis may be overrating Milsap, but I wouldn't say that Milsap is "overrated" in the general sense.  He's a very, very good PF, and would unquestionably be an upgrade to our front court.  Saying "the Hawks aren't a great team, therefore it's Milsap's fault" isn't really solid analysis.

Thank you for chiming in. Milsap is most definitely overrated. He was in consideration for DOP last year which is insane imo. He's not that good imo. He's a solid player in this league. And yes I can use wins and losses to make my claim. That is an important component in evaluating players. Also, how is that not solid analysis? Moranis SAID HE IS AN IMPACT PLAYER. How can he be that impactful when he is on a pretty decent team with a solid roster, plays in the east where there is a pile of doo, and yet they can't be above 500? Did I say the Hawks need to be great? No, I just said they should be better than their record is if he is going to make a significant impact on the Celtics.

I love this though, keep it coming please.

Am I missing something?  They're 18-16 right now (5th in the East), which is over .500.  And they're 18-13 (.581) with him in the lineup, which would be 4th in the East right behind us. They had an epicly bad stretch from 11/18 to 12/5, going a brutal 1 and 10 (this stretch is also where Millsap missed 3 games).  It doesn't make much sense to blame the drop in record (which is overstated, since they were 21-14 at this point last year, only 2.5 games ahead) on Millsap instead of losing Teague (who's new team is doing better than last year, when they didn't have him) and Horford (who's new team is doing better than last year, when they didn't have him) and bringing in Howard (who's old team is doing better than last year, when they had him)

I wouldn't make this trade, and I doubt saltlover would either

[saltlover]

Milsap:

1.) Won't win us a title

2.) Will get a max contract this summer, which could give him just under $50 million in his final year

3.) Played with Horford the last couple years and they were great during the regular season, then his size got exposed in the playoffs and they couldn't make a run

4.) Is already 32 years old

5.) Is 6'8" and a sub .333% 3 pt shooter

So why would anyone want him?  What is the point?  To win like 5 more games in the regular season?  We'd be maxed out after that, it's a terrible idea.

Milsap will not get a max contract with max raises for 5 years this summer.  Not remotely happening.  I can see him getting a lot of money, but no one is going to look at Milsap and say "he should be the highest paid player in the game for the rest of his contract."  And that's what would happen if given a max, because with max raises, his future salaries would be higher than a year 1 max in a future year due to the cap not likely increasing much the next couple of seasons, and especially not by 7.5%, which is what that insanely high number you've quote requires (and based on current projections, that number is betwen $46-47 million, not $50 million.)

Did it make sense to offer Horford the max? Have you seen the money that has been thrown around out there. I mean he's at least going to be offered $25M per year and I think I'll pass.

When offering Horford the max, everyone knew the cap was still going to spike a bit more the following season.  Also, he only got 4.5% raises for 4 years, not 7.5% raises for five years, as the poster is assuming.  Finally, Horford was only eligible for a 30% max, not a 35% max.  They are just very different "maxes".

[Moranis]

Adding Millsap for Smart would make Boston a lot better because it would balance the team a lot better.  And Millsap has a higher TRB% than any big man on the Celtics and that is with him sharing the floor with Howard who is still one of the best rebounders in the game.  He would instantly be Boston's best rebounder and it wouldn't be all that close. 

I'd rather take minutes away from Zeller, Jerekbo, Olynyk and Johnson and give them to Millsap then have Smart play instead of Rozier and Brown (who would get Smart's minutes).  Boston is a significantly better team with Millsap than it is with Smart, it isn't close at all.

This is silly. If he is such an impact player, why is Atlanta worse from last year? They have Howard who is having a great year and yet their record is 500. Hmm....Your comment isn't adding up. Seems like every year a player becomes available and because there is no other players available, writers start to hype the available player up just for clicks.

Milsap is so overrated. Clearly Horford is better since he is the piece they lost from last year.

I feel compelled to note that the Hawks also lost their starting PG.  While Schroeder was the heir apparent, he's a small step down from the last couple of seasons of Jeff Teague.  Furthermore, their new backup PG, Malcolm Delaney, has been terrible.  We should all wish for him to go to Brooklyn.

Moranis may be overrating Milsap, but I wouldn't say that Milsap is "overrated" in the general sense.  He's a very, very good PF, and would unquestionably be an upgrade to our front court.  Saying "the Hawks aren't a great team, therefore it's Milsap's fault" isn't really solid analysis.

Thank you for chiming in. Milsap is most definitely overrated. He was in consideration for DOP last year which is insane imo. He's not that good imo. He's a solid player in this league. And yes I can use wins and losses to make my claim. That is an important component in evaluating players. Also, how is that not solid analysis? Moranis SAID HE IS AN IMPACT PLAYER. How can he be that impactful when he is on a pretty decent team with a solid roster, plays in the east where there is a pile of doo, and yet they can't be above 500? Did I say the Hawks need to be great? No, I just said they should be better than their record is if he is going to make a significant impact on the Celtics.

I love this though, keep it coming please.

I never said Millsap was an impact player.  I said he would make Boston significantly better which he would (pretty much what I said of Horford).  Millsap is not Lebron or Davis or Durant or Curry and I've never claimed he was.  He is however a very good all around player and would be Boston's best player though not significantly better than Thomas or Horford.

BTW, the Hawks are 18-16.  Last time I checked that was above .500.  They replaced Horford and Teague with Howard and Delaney.  That is a net negative and doesn't even account Bazemore falling off the face of the planet offensively. 

[BitterJim]

Milsap:

1.) Won't win us a title

2.) Will get a max contract this summer, which could give him just under $50 million in his final year

3.) Played with Horford the last couple years and they were great during the regular season, then his size got exposed in the playoffs and they couldn't make a run

4.) Is already 32 years old

5.) Is 6'8" and a sub .333% 3 pt shooter

So why would anyone want him?  What is the point?  To win like 5 more games in the regular season?  We'd be maxed out after that, it's a terrible idea.

Milsap will not get a max contract with max raises for 5 years this summer.  Not remotely happening.  I can see him getting a lot of money, but no one is going to look at Milsap and say "he should be the highest paid player in the game for the rest of his contract."  And that's what would happen if given a max, because with max raises, his future salaries would be higher than a year 1 max in a future year due to the cap not likely increasing much the next couple of seasons, and especially not by 7.5%, which is what that insanely high number you've quote requires (and based on current projections, that number is betwen $46-47 million, not $50 million.)

Did it make sense to offer Horford the max? Have you seen the money that has been thrown around out there. I mean he's at least going to be offered $25M per year and I think I'll pass.

Yes, but Millsap's max will be on a completely different level.  $25 million isn't even close to a max for him, it will be closer to $35 million year one (which would be at least $4 million more than Lebron is getting this season).  For a 5 year max with bird raises (7.5% per year), you're looking at 5/$200+ million, with the 5th year (where he'd be turning 37) at almost $47 million (and this is ignoring the new CBA, which allows teams to resign players to even higher than max contracts).   Horford maxes out at "just" $30 million.

Salaries are gonna get even crazier this year

[Moranis]

Milsap:

1.) Won't win us a title

2.) Will get a max contract this summer, which could give him just under $50 million in his final year

3.) Played with Horford the last couple years and they were great during the regular season, then his size got exposed in the playoffs and they couldn't make a run

4.) Is already 32 years old

5.) Is 6'8" and a sub .333% 3 pt shooter

So why would anyone want him?  What is the point?  To win like 5 more games in the regular season?  We'd be maxed out after that, it's a terrible idea.

Milsap will not get a max contract with max raises for 5 years this summer.  Not remotely happening.  I can see him getting a lot of money, but no one is going to look at Milsap and say "he should be the highest paid player in the game for the rest of his contract."  And that's what would happen if given a max, because with max raises, his future salaries would be higher than a year 1 max in a future year due to the cap not likely increasing much the next couple of seasons, and especially not by 7.5%, which is what that insanely high number you've quote requires (and based on current projections, that number is betwen $46-47 million, not $50 million.)

Did it make sense to offer Horford the max? Have you seen the money that has been thrown around out there. I mean he's at least going to be offered $25M per year and I think I'll pass.

When offering Horford the max, everyone knew the cap was still going to spike a bit more the following season.  Also, he only got 4.5% raises for 4 years, not 7.5% raises for five years, as the poster is assuming.  Finally, Horford was only eligible for a 30% max, not a 35% max.  They are just very different "maxes".

Yep.  Given how long Horford is signed for, I would have no real issue with giving Millsap a 3 year contract that makes him paid around what Horford is paid.  This summer is basically the last summer Boston will have cap space for a max contract and I can't see Boston signing anyone better than Millsap since I don't think Durant, Curry, Griffin, or Hayward leave their current teams.  If acquiring Millsap during the season makes it more likely for Boston to sign him this summer and makes Boston a better team this year, then it is a no brainer.  Brown and Rozier take Smart's minutes and Boston doesn't lose much in the backcourt this year and should be even better next year.

[tankcity!]

I'd rather pay Noel than Milsap. Milsap doesn't cover our weaknesses imo.

[jpotter33]

I'd rather pay Noel than Milsap. Milsap doesn't cover our weaknesses imo.

TP. I prefer the younger guy in this case, and Noel should come quote a bit cheaper at this point, too. Don't think Milssp will age gracefully either.

[tankcity!]

I'd rather pay Noel than Milsap. Milsap doesn't cover our weaknesses imo.

TP. I prefer the younger guy in this case, and Noel should come quote a bit cheaper at this point, too. Don't think Milssp will age gracefully either.

I honestly do salivate at the thought of adding Noel to the Celtics. Could you imagine how elite we would be on defense? I wish we would trade for him at the deadline. And because of how elite we would be on defense, I could see other players wanting to be traded to the Celtics. Like George for example if he is unhappy with losing. 

[Moranis]

I'd much rather pay Millsap than Noel given Noel's injury history, off court issues, and his seemingly never ending comments about how unhappy he is.  Remember this a guy that is a free agent this summer and has played in just 8 games averaging less than 12 mpg thus far this year.  This after missing 15 games last year.  His rebounding rate is way down, though it is such a small sample it is hard to put much faith in it. 

That said, Noel will likely come cheaper than Millsap and thus there may be more value to the team in acquiring him as opposed to paying more to acquire Millsap.  But make no mistake Noel is a horrid offensive player who can basically just dunk and thus far this year isn't rebounding or defending particularly well (though I would expect both of those to increase as he gets healthier).

[jpotter33]

I'd much rather pay Millsap than Noel given Noel's injury history, off court issues, and his seemingly never ending comments about how unhappy he is.  Remember this a guy that is a free agent this summer and has played in just 8 games averaging less than 12 mpg thus far this year.  This after missing 15 games last year.  His rebounding rate is way down, though it is such a small sample it is hard to put much faith in it. 

That said, Noel will likely come cheaper than Millsap and thus there may be more value to the team in acquiring him as opposed to paying more to acquire Millsap.  But make no mistake Noel is a horrid offensive player who can basically just dunk and thus far this year isn't rebounding or defending particularly well (though I would expect both of those to increase as he gets healthier).

The surgery was elective, and from what I've gathered it was pretty much due to the major logjam that the Sixers had. The Sixers wanted him to do it to provide them more time to evaluate Embiid and Okafor at the beginning of the season, and he kind of just went along with it.

And it's hard to evaluate Noel's true injury history. Yes, he tore his ACL in college, but that's seemingly never been a problem for him in the pros. He played 75 games his rookie year, and last year he played 67. However, with how the Sixers have blatantly embraced tanking in his tenure, along with the issue of the logjam last year and this year, there's no telling how many of those games he was held out of in order to tank. Hell, that's exactly what happened in his "real" rookie year. He could've came back several months before the end of the season, but the Sixers didn't want to win any extra games or chance him injuring himself again.

I think his injury history is largely overblown. He'd easily be the most athletic big we've had in a long while.

If he got around 16-18 for four years, which seems about right for his value right now, wouldn't you prefer that to a four year deal of around 24-25 for an aging Milsap, whose game will certainly not age all that gracefully?

[bogg]

My biggest issue with trading anything of genuine value for Millsap is that Boston might be the best-positioned team in the league to sign him away from Atlanta this summer, and should have pretty good tracks on Ibaka and Gallinari as well should they wish (throw Noel in there too if you want, and maybe even Len, Porter, and Plumlee if we're really getting crazy). Given their odds of coming away with at least one of those three (with the added benefit of making Horford a little more expendable in any future trade), I'd rather keep Boston's full slate of primary assets.