Directly Behind Isaiah in PPG

[max215]

Now I know that PPG means very little, but take a look at who falls directly behind Isaiah in PPG:

http://bkref.com/tiny/GM9g5

That would be the three best players in the NBA. We really should appreciate how good the Little Guy is.

[kozlodoev]

Now I know that PPG means very little, but take a look at who falls directly behind Isaiah in PPG:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&year_min=2017&year_max=2017&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&force%3Apos_is=1&c6mult=1.0&order_by=pts_per_g

That would be the three best players in the NBA. We really should appreciate how good the Little Guy is.

Wouldn't read too much into it. Two of those guys have to share the same ball, and the third is averaging 9apg (and on somewhat of a minute watch because age... though not really). This is more of a testament to those three rather than Thomas, who can have every and any shot he wants on our team).

[Phantom255x]

Nah, he's a scrub. Mediocre. He's not even 6 feet tall.

Rozier can easily replace his offensive production.

Fultz will come in and average 25+ PPG out of the gate.

Our shooting is perfectly fine even without IT.

(That's what everyone on this blog/forum will say)

[GratefulCs]

Nah, he's a scrub. Mediocre. He's not even 6 feet tall.

Rozier can easily replace his offensive production.

Fultz will come in and average 25+ PPG out of the gate.

Our shooting is perfectly fine even without IT.

(That's what everyone on this blog/forum will say)

i don't think many, if any, would say that (at least none in their right minds, ha)


Edit: except for the fact that he's not even 6 feet tall. That one's true

[max215]

Now I know that PPG means very little, but take a look at who falls directly behind Isaiah in PPG:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&year_min=2017&year_max=2017&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&force%3Apos_is=1&c6mult=1.0&order_by=pts_per_g

That would be the three best players in the NBA. We really should appreciate how good the Little Guy is.

Wouldn't read too much into it. Two of those guys have to share the same ball, and the third is averaging 9apg (and on somewhat of a minute watch because age... though not really). This is more of a testament to those three rather than Thomas, who can have every and any shot he wants on our team).

Let me make one thing clear: Isaiah is nowhere near the level of those guys. That doesn't mean we shouldn't appreciate how good he is, and frankly, I don't see why you can't just appreciate that for a moment. Here's another example of how impressive he's been:

http://bkref.com/tiny/lbpXh

Isaiah is all alone in terms of high-usage players in taking care of the ball. Find another primary ball-handler who even approaches what he has done thus far. Isaiah's doing some pretty special stuff at the moment, and we're lucky to be watching him.

[Phantom255x]

Nah, he's a scrub. Mediocre. He's not even 6 feet tall.

Rozier can easily replace his offensive production.

Fultz will come in and average 25+ PPG out of the gate.

Our shooting is perfectly fine even without IT.

(That's what everyone on this blog/forum will say)

i don't think many, if any, would say that (at least none in their right minds, ha)


Edit: except for the fact that he's not even 6 feet tall. That one's true

People actually have (and yes, the "less than 6 feet" part is a fact).

Just baffles me people would be willing to trade IT. Is he getting you Westbrook or Lilliard? No. Then why bother? And then people are like "oh let's deal IT for Noel". Really now?

Then there's the whole matter of how much players are worth, in which case people say IT isn't even worth more than 18M/Year? LOL. Yes he is. Like it or not.

[Boris Badenov]

How about this one. It's a list of seasons in the modern era where the player had 20+ ppg, 30%+ USG, 25%+ AST, and <10% TO.

The list is sorted by WS48, in descending order.

http://bkref.com/tiny/HrPbh

[max215]

How about this one. It's a list of seasons in the modern era where the player had 20+ ppg, 30%+ USG, 25%+ AST, and <10% TO.

The list is sorted by WS48, in descending order.

http://bkref.com/tiny/HrPbh

TP for the find. People tend to react so negatively to these (sometimes hyper-specified) play index searches, but that misses the point entirely. I don't think you're trying to say Isaiah is on MJ's level, right? Nor am I suggesting that he's on KD, Steph, or LeBron's, but the very fact that you can find criteria that yield lists in which IT is alongside players like those is itself impressive.

[GratefulCs]

How about this one. It's a list of seasons in the modern era where the player had 20+ ppg, 30%+ USG, 25%+ AST, and <10% TO.

The list is sorted by WS48, in descending order.

http://bkref.com/tiny/HrPbh

now THAT's an impressive list!

TP

[Boris Badenov]

How about this one. It's a list of seasons in the modern era where the player had 20+ ppg, 30%+ USG, 25%+ AST, and <10% TO.

The list is sorted by WS48, in descending order.

http://bkref.com/tiny/HrPbh

TP for the find. People tend to react so negatively to these (sometimes hyper-specified) play index searches, but that misses the point entirely. I don't think you're trying to say Isaiah is on MJ's level, right? Nor am I suggesting that he's on KD, Steph, or LeBron's, but the very fact that you can find criteria that yield lists in which IT is alongside players like those is itself impressive.

Right, I agree.

I think what this says, without hyperbole, is that very few players have had seasons in which they handled the ball as much and did as many good things with it, while not turning it over very much.

I mean, that's pretty much literally what the numbers say. To have 66% of your offensive touches end in a high-efficiency shot or an assist, while fewer than 10% end in a turnover, is impressive.

Just for fun, I ranked everyone on that list by those figures, put some numbers on that, looking at (USG%*TS%)+AST%-(0.52*TO%) for everyone on the list.

What this does is take points created by the player himself, per possession (USG*TS%), plus points created by assisting on baskets for others (AST%). Then I subtract lost points from turnovers, (TO%*.52). I'm assuming that other teams/players get the current league average of about 104 points per possession, because I'm feeling lazy.

I think the way to think about the number is "What share of the time does this player create 2 points directly for his own team, vs. lose 2 points by turning it over?"

Thomas is at the top of the list, among all those seasons, at about 47%. Most of the other seasons are in the 38-42% range. And these are some of the greatest offensive seasons ever.

And for a more apples-to-apples comparison if you look at Allen Iverson's best years, the numbers are lower too. Iverson shot more, at lower efficiency, assisted less, and turned it over more.

[max215]

How about this one. It's a list of seasons in the modern era where the player had 20+ ppg, 30%+ USG, 25%+ AST, and <10% TO.

The list is sorted by WS48, in descending order.

http://bkref.com/tiny/HrPbh

TP for the find. People tend to react so negatively to these (sometimes hyper-specified) play index searches, but that misses the point entirely. I don't think you're trying to say Isaiah is on MJ's level, right? Nor am I suggesting that he's on KD, Steph, or LeBron's, but the very fact that you can find criteria that yield lists in which IT is alongside players like those is itself impressive.

Right, I agree.

I think what this says, without hyperbole, is that very few players have had seasons in which they handled the ball as much and did as many good things with it, while not turning it over very much.

I mean, that's pretty much literally what the numbers say. To have 66% of your offensive touches end in a high-efficiency shot or an assist, while fewer than 10% end in a turnover, is impressive.

Just for fun, I ranked everyone on that list by those figures, put some numbers on that, looking at (USG%*TS%)+AST%-(0.52*TO%) for everyone on the list.

What this does is take points created by the player himself, per possession (USG*TS%), plus points created by assisting on baskets for others (AST%). Then I subtract lost points from turnovers, (TO%*.52). I'm assuming that other teams/players get the current league average of about 104 points per possession, because I'm feeling lazy.

I think the way to think about the number is "What share of the time does this player create 2 points directly for his own team, vs. lose 2 points by turning it over?"

Thomas is at the top of the list, among all those seasons, at about 47%. Most of the other seasons are in the 38-42% range. And these are some of the greatest offensive seasons ever.

And for a more apples-to-apples comparison if you look at Allen Iverson's best years, the numbers are lower too. Iverson shot more, at lower efficiency, assisted less, and turned it over more.

Wow, excellent stuff. From the analysis to your metric to Isaiah's results (although the metric is sort of geared toward showing how good he is): wow. Big TP.

[Boris Badenov]

How about this one. It's a list of seasons in the modern era where the player had 20+ ppg, 30%+ USG, 25%+ AST, and <10% TO.

The list is sorted by WS48, in descending order.

http://bkref.com/tiny/HrPbh

TP for the find. People tend to react so negatively to these (sometimes hyper-specified) play index searches, but that misses the point entirely. I don't think you're trying to say Isaiah is on MJ's level, right? Nor am I suggesting that he's on KD, Steph, or LeBron's, but the very fact that you can find criteria that yield lists in which IT is alongside players like those is itself impressive.

Right, I agree.

I think what this says, without hyperbole, is that very few players have had seasons in which they handled the ball as much and did as many good things with it, while not turning it over very much.

I mean, that's pretty much literally what the numbers say. To have 66% of your offensive touches end in a high-efficiency shot or an assist, while fewer than 10% end in a turnover, is impressive.

Just for fun, I ranked everyone on that list by those figures, put some numbers on that, looking at (USG%*TS%)+AST%-(0.52*TO%) for everyone on the list.

What this does is take points created by the player himself, per possession (USG*TS%), plus points created by assisting on baskets for others (AST%). Then I subtract lost points from turnovers, (TO%*.52). I'm assuming that other teams/players get the current league average of about 104 points per possession, because I'm feeling lazy.

I think the way to think about the number is "What share of the time does this player create 2 points directly for his own team, vs. lose 2 points by turning it over?"

Thomas is at the top of the list, among all those seasons, at about 47%. Most of the other seasons are in the 38-42% range. And these are some of the greatest offensive seasons ever.

And for a more apples-to-apples comparison if you look at Allen Iverson's best years, the numbers are lower too. Iverson shot more, at lower efficiency, assisted less, and turned it over more.

Wow, excellent stuff. From the analysis to your metric to Isaiah's results (although the metric is sort of geared toward showing how good he is): wow. Big TP.

I'm sure Tommy would approve. I'm not posting on objective_nba_analyisis.com

[max215]

So...this was unexpectedly timely.

[esel1000]

Career high 44 tonight on 16 shots. Pretty amazing

[Boris Badenov]

So...this was unexpectedly timely.

Indeed. TP for starting a cool thread!