Anyone not yet willing to concede Jaylen was a great pick?

[vjcsmoke]

Jaylen Brown had 10 points off the bench against the Thunder.  Let's not overreact here.
It was a good solid outing, but nothing to write headlines about yet.

I've seen Reggie Lewis play, and it will take a whole lot before I say this is the next RL.
Way too small sample size.

Besides I'd rather he be the next Jaylen Brown.

Is he a great pick?  I hope so.
Has he proven anything yet?  No, not even close.

But I still have high hopes for JB's development.
He certainly seems to have the athleticism and the attitude to someday become a difference maker.

But only time will tell.  I'm rooting for the kid.  But to call him a great pick already?
I just don't see it yet.  Sorry.

[mctyson]

Jaylen Brown had 10 points off the bench against the Thunder.  Let's not overreact here.
It was a good solid outing, but nothing to write headlines about yet.

I've seen Reggie Lewis play, and it will take a whole lot before I say this is the next RL.
Way too small sample size.

Besides I'd rather he be the next Jaylen Brown.

Is he a great pick?  I hope so.
Has he proven anything yet?  No, not even close.

But I still have high hopes for JB's development.
He certainly seems to have the athleticism and the attitude to someday become a difference maker.

But only time will tell.  I'm rooting for the kid.  But to call him a great pick already?
I just don't see it yet.  Sorry.

Focus on the stats all you want, but he has a major impact on the floor.

[Smitty77]

Among this years drafted rookies, Brown is 11th in ppg, 16th in rpg, 15th in apg, and 12th in mpg.  Even his 3PT shooting which has been a surprise he is 10th in.

There are things to be excited about for sure, but he has thus far been outplayed by Murray and Chriss who were both considered in that same 3-8 basically interchangeable player range entering the draft. 

Maybe Brown becomes the best player in the draft.  Maybe Brown becomes a terrible pick based on his draft position.  24 games in on a guy playing less than 15 mpg, is way too early to make any sort of statement on what Brown becomes which means it is away to early to call him a great pick.

Brown has outplayed Chriss and it's not very close.  Do you still think it's summer league?

In basically the same minutes, Chriss is scoring more, rebounding more, shooting better from 2 and the line, generating more steals, and blocking more shots.  Brown is a better 3 point shooter, passer, and is committing less fouls and turnovers.

And Brown is probably TWICE the lock-up defender as Chriss currently!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

Yes, DEFENSE does matter!!!!!!!!!!!

Smitty77

[Moranis]

Among this years drafted rookies, Brown is 11th in ppg, 16th in rpg, 15th in apg, and 12th in mpg.  Even his 3PT shooting which has been a surprise he is 10th in.

There are things to be excited about for sure, but he has thus far been outplayed by Murray and Chriss who were both considered in that same 3-8 basically interchangeable player range entering the draft. 

Maybe Brown becomes the best player in the draft.  Maybe Brown becomes a terrible pick based on his draft position.  24 games in on a guy playing less than 15 mpg, is way too early to make any sort of statement on what Brown becomes which means it is away to early to call him a great pick.

Brown has outplayed Chriss and it's not very close.  Do you still think it's summer league?

In basically the same minutes, Chriss is scoring more, rebounding more, shooting better from 2 and the line, generating more steals, and blocking more shots.  Brown is a better 3 point shooter, passer, and is committing less fouls and turnovers.

And Brown is probably TWICE the lock-up defender as Chriss currently!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

Yes, DEFENSE does matter!!!!!!!!!!!

Smitty77

Brown is a better defender though they do have pretty similar defensive stats. I just have a hard time saying that the guy scoring more, rebounding more, etc.is being outplayed. That just isn't born out in their actual per minute production thus far this season, which is one of the many reasons this is a ridiculous thread

[Smitty77]

Among this years drafted rookies, Brown is 11th in ppg, 16th in rpg, 15th in apg, and 12th in mpg.  Even his 3PT shooting which has been a surprise he is 10th in.

There are things to be excited about for sure, but he has thus far been outplayed by Murray and Chriss who were both considered in that same 3-8 basically interchangeable player range entering the draft. 

Maybe Brown becomes the best player in the draft.  Maybe Brown becomes a terrible pick based on his draft position.  24 games in on a guy playing less than 15 mpg, is way too early to make any sort of statement on what Brown becomes which means it is away to early to call him a great pick.

Brown has outplayed Chriss and it's not very close.  Do you still think it's summer league?

In basically the same minutes, Chriss is scoring more, rebounding more, shooting better from 2 and the line, generating more steals, and blocking more shots.  Brown is a better 3 point shooter, passer, and is committing less fouls and turnovers.

And Brown is probably TWICE the lock-up defender as Chriss currently!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

Yes, DEFENSE does matter!!!!!!!!!!!

Smitty77

Brown is a better defender though they do have pretty similar defensive stats. I just have a hard time saying that the guy scoring more, rebounding more, etc.is being outplayed. That just isn't born out in their actual per minute production thus far this season, which is one of the many reasons this is a ridiculous thread

I do NOT have a hard time saying that the player with an 11.2 PER and a SUPERIOR defender is the better player that has an 8.9 PER and is an inferior defender.  And one plays for a sorry butt team and the other plays for a playoff team behind two fringe All-Stars in Bradley and Crowder!!

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/phx/phoenix-suns

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/bos

Smitty77

[Bostoncelticsforlife7]

Jaylen Brown had 10 points off the bench against the Thunder.  Let's not overreact here.
It was a good solid outing, but nothing to write headlines about yet.

I've seen Reggie Lewis play, and it will take a whole lot before I say this is the next RL.
Way too small sample size.

Besides I'd rather he be the next Jaylen Brown.

Is he a great pick?  I hope so.
Has he proven anything yet?  No, not even close.

But I still have high hopes for JB's development.
He certainly seems to have the athleticism and the attitude to someday become a difference maker.

But only time will tell.  I'm rooting for the kid.  But to call him a great pick already?
I just don't see it yet.  Sorry.

Focus on the stats all you want, but he has a major impact on the floor.

Exactly, he only had 7 points vs the Raptors the other night but he showed great flashes on both sides of the court

[Chris22]

In the last five games Brown is shooting 59% from the field, 57% on threes, and 83% from the line.

[walker834]

Stats are somewhat meaningless for a rookie.  In jaylen's case though he's playing efficiently.  I consider  Marcus a good pick regardless of his shooting as well because he does other things that stand out.  Same with AB even though he didn't even really play his first year.  These guys can't control the time they are getting on the floor overly.  I think the talent level is there.   Pierce had some pretty inefficient years early on playing big minutes but he was a great pick too. He just was counted more on to be the guy and it was more the situation of the team than anything.

jerome moiso on the other hand not a very good pick.

Jaylen is doing what is asked of him and contributing and playing efficiently and showing flashes of his talent. If you can't see his talent level I don't know what to tell you.  Yeah he's jaylen and not Reggie Lewis but that's the closest comparison I can come up with.  That's all that is.

Yabusele I consider a good pick and he's in another country lol.  My expectations of him are much lower though.  I see a good roleplayer potentially there and if he doesn't become that oh well.  That will be a great pick if he becomes more than that and a really solid roleplayer for us for a long time. He's more a gamble that way.

Brown is different.. If he doesn't become a really good player I'll be surprised.

Ben Bentil fits into that jerome moiso mold to me.  Not a very good pick, but for us it kind of was because we didn't  need that pick anyways.  It was a bland pick and it allowed us to cut him.  Taking Ben Bentil at 10 or 11 or wherever Moiso was taken now that's a bad pick. Bentil where he was taken good pick lol.  Never played a minute outside of summer league and possibly preseason and I'm good with that. Some people had Bentil going in the first round.  Now that's a bad pick.  End of round 2 and as a cut which is what we needed there good pick.

jaylen has done nothing to not make me think it was a bad pick and not great even at this point.  I guess I'm more from the inncent until proven guilty mode.  Looks like a great pick.  He has to prove me wrong but hasn't so far.  Moiso looked like a bad pick and was one at least to me.

He's a rookie.  A lot of great rookies average less minutes their rookie year. The talent level has been there.  The efficiency has as well.  Average out his numbers in more minutes and he's a star. Maybe not a superstar but he's a star. 

Obviously wait and see and he has a lot of work to do.  He seems to have the work ethic too so far.  I haven't read anything on him that says otherwise. 

He's been a great pick so  far.  It could spiral down and he ends up a turd and goes the way of Robert Swift or even Jeff Green, but I'll believe it when I see it.  I've seen no indication of that.

Looks like a #3 pick at least by todays standards and has that potential.  He's a bit raw but by todays standards that's pretty normal.  The talent level is there.  In 1985 or whenever he may have been a bit of a reach because he is a bit raw.  He's still further along than a lot of people were saying he'd be.

It was a great pick too because a lot of people didn't have him going that high.  He looks like the best player at 3 so far and even better than maybe the top 2.  He looks better than Dunn so far imo.  I wouldn't change the pick or wish we got someone else.  If we could do the draft again I'd take him at 3 and even as high as 2.  Simmons still probably deserved to go 1 but even he could bust.

A lot of people thought Dunn was the most nba ready and bpa at that spot, but he looks just as raw as Jaylen so far if not moreso.  Dunn to me will be fine as well though.   I'd still take Jaylen.  I think he was the better choice. Dunn has more questions at this point imo.

Another long post but start typing and it just keeps going.  There's some question whether he will be a truly great player but as far as a pick I wouldn't change it at this point. He has that potential.  he could be even better than I'm saying he'll be.  I don't see the next Larry Legend or Kobe Bryant with him right now necessarily but he could be. Closer to Kobe than Larry.  I don't even think he's as good as Pierce but he has potential to be up there and that's all I can ask for from the 3rd pick in the draft.  As a potential guy to be in the rafters whether he ends up better or worse that's pretty great. 6 months in regardless of who he is that's going to be a bit absurd to say that no matter who we drafted.  At least I can sort of say  that with a straight face and it has some legitamency to it.  If were to say that about jerome moiso I'd be crazy.  Saying it about Brown I don't think so.  He has a real chance to do that.

[walker834]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrCFioJCDr4

jaylen vs the magic.  I think Marcus and Bradley were good to very good picks. They've proven they are good to very good players.   Jaylen looks special to me.   To go with what Ainge said he has as much a chance as anyone they could have taken to be that.  Marcus has the potential to be a great player too.  But jaylen more has that special tag.

All that said I don't think he is as good as Pierce was out of the gate.  That was a long time ago though.

Different players.  Jaylen is more effortless and athletic.  Pierce was a better all around player out of the gate though.

He's not even close to what Bird was as a rookie.  He is to what Reggie Lewis was imo.  He's actually getting more time to shine because he isn't playing behind Bird and is playing behind Crowder.

Dee Brown had a really good rookie year playing with Bird.  jaylen is sort of that too but way bigger and more talented than Dee.  His upside is much greater because of his size.  Dee was a great player though but limited because of his size.   He plays like Dee Brown but bigger.

I think jaylen definately has a shot to be in the top 5 celtics small forwards after guys like Bird, Hondo and Pierce. He could be better than Reggie because of longevity.   Both Reggie and Bias are tragic.

I'm only 43 though.  Never got to see Hondo.  Got to see a lot of Bird, REggie and Pierce though  and have gone back and studied up on other guys.  And  yes Bird was that good.  Players are more athletic and just healthier in ways now but as far as all around skill level and understanding of certain concepts, there is no contest to some players back then.  I'm a little older than Brad Stevens and Pierce for that matter.  Amazing how time flies.

Danny Ainge is also not a moron.  Jaylen's talent level is definately there.  A moron to me is someone who can't at least acknowledge that fact.

[moiso]

Among this years drafted rookies, Brown is 11th in ppg, 16th in rpg, 15th in apg, and 12th in mpg.  Even his 3PT shooting which has been a surprise he is 10th in.

There are things to be excited about for sure, but he has thus far been outplayed by Murray and Chriss who were both considered in that same 3-8 basically interchangeable player range entering the draft. 

Maybe Brown becomes the best player in the draft.  Maybe Brown becomes a terrible pick based on his draft position.  24 games in on a guy playing less than 15 mpg, is way too early to make any sort of statement on what Brown becomes which means it is away to early to call him a great pick.

Brown has outplayed Chriss and it's not very close.  Do you still think it's summer league?

In basically the same minutes, Chriss is scoring more, rebounding more, shooting better from 2 and the line, generating more steals, and blocking more shots.  Brown is a better 3 point shooter, passer, and is committing less fouls and turnovers.

And Brown is probably TWICE the lock-up defender as Chriss currently!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

Yes, DEFENSE does matter!!!!!!!!!!!

Smitty77

Brown is a better defender though they do have pretty similar defensive stats. I just have a hard time saying that the guy scoring more, rebounding more, etc.is being outplayed. That just isn't born out in their actual per minute production thus far this season, which is one of the many reasons this is a ridiculous thread

I do NOT have a hard time saying that the player with an 11.2 PER and a SUPERIOR defender is the better player that has an 8.9 PER and is an inferior defender.  And one plays for a sorry butt team and the other plays for a playoff team behind two fringe All-Stars in Bradley and Crowder!!

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/phx/phoenix-suns

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/bos

Smitty77

Exactly how I feel.

[Moranis]

Among this years drafted rookies, Brown is 11th in ppg, 16th in rpg, 15th in apg, and 12th in mpg.  Even his 3PT shooting which has been a surprise he is 10th in.

There are things to be excited about for sure, but he has thus far been outplayed by Murray and Chriss who were both considered in that same 3-8 basically interchangeable player range entering the draft. 

Maybe Brown becomes the best player in the draft.  Maybe Brown becomes a terrible pick based on his draft position.  24 games in on a guy playing less than 15 mpg, is way too early to make any sort of statement on what Brown becomes which means it is away to early to call him a great pick.

Brown has outplayed Chriss and it's not very close.  Do you still think it's summer league?

In basically the same minutes, Chriss is scoring more, rebounding more, shooting better from 2 and the line, generating more steals, and blocking more shots.  Brown is a better 3 point shooter, passer, and is committing less fouls and turnovers.

And Brown is probably TWICE the lock-up defender as Chriss currently!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

Yes, DEFENSE does matter!!!!!!!!!!!

Smitty77

Brown is a better defender though they do have pretty similar defensive stats. I just have a hard time saying that the guy scoring more, rebounding more, etc.is being outplayed. That just isn't born out in their actual per minute production thus far this season, which is one of the many reasons this is a ridiculous thread

I do NOT have a hard time saying that the player with an 11.2 PER and a SUPERIOR defender is the better player that has an 8.9 PER and is an inferior defender.  And one plays for a sorry butt team and the other plays for a playoff team behind two fringe All-Stars in Bradley and Crowder!!

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/phx/phoenix-suns

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/bos

Smitty77

playing on a better team actually helps a rookie.  has less burden to score, better teammates give him better looks, better help on defense, etc. 

These are their per 36 #'s (there is basically 1 mpg difference)

13.8 p, 4.9 r, 1.6 a, 1.0 s, 0.8 b, 1.7 t, 3.9 f - 49.4% 2PT, 37.5% 3PT, 60.6% FT
14.8 p, 7.4 r, 1.1 a, 1.2 s, 1.1 b, 2.7 t, 6.7 f - 49.5% 2PT, 28.3% 3PT, 65.1% FT

To claim the first guy is vastly outplaying the second guy seems pretty silly.  They both are better in certain areas.  And for the record, they each have a DRTG of 109.  They each have a DWS of 0.3 which given the team record favors the guy on the worse team.  They both have negative BPM and VORP though Brown is better in those.

Put it this way, if Chriss was the Celtic and Brown was the Sun with the same stats, there is no one this board that would be claiming Brown was significantly outplaying Chriss.